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Roy vd M.

Dornier 17z Airfix (1/72)

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I've tried to make pictures in a descriptive way. Thus, very little text. In case of questions, just let me know!

For future builders of this kit, here’s a list of improvement- and awareness points regarding the Airfix- and Eduard-parts. Safe a few exceptions, this advice merely regards the Airfix Dornier 17z + aftermarket specifically.

The mentioned numbers are the paragraphs in this topic where the issues are discussed. Everything is treated chronologically, in the order of my findings. Please note that every modeller is in charge of his or her own build; everything is possible, nothing is obligatory... the hereunder is solely meant as help for those modellers who want to build this magnificently moulded Airfix-set.

#0: plan well ahead. Personally I don't follow the instructions' order. Biggest deviations except those discussed hereunder: picture 32 -> exhaust will be fixed only after airbrushing and decalling the plane. Pictures 34-37: the engine will only be fixed after airbrushing & decalling. Picture 38: first, sand thin and prepare for priming. Eventually, the engine will be pushed inside those and the subassembly will be fixed to the wing. It's absolutely necessary though to fix the engines. Pictures 69-74: the glass and the MG15s are fixed before airbrushing the body.

#2: the ribs of the upper flaps are best broken off and then glued in place.

#4: mind that the upper flap is fitted perfectly, it's a very tight fit. Take great attention when using CA, something I really don't advice.

#19: remove inexplicably moulded plastic from the MG15s.

#23: put photo etch on, and paint, all MG15-cartridges. In Airfix' instructions, no less than 21 are forgotten... same with Eduard, most cartridges are forgotten.

#25: mind a possibly twisted beam near the pilot seat, correct this before you won't be able to reach it.

#29: before curving the oxygen pressure thingy, make the fold first.

#36: on this picture you see that I ignored picture 6 of the Airfix-manual. This is not my original idea; I read it in another build report of this model. Picture 6 is utopia. position part C8 as a sandwich, whilst combining the two fuselage halves...

#43: dryfit everything thoroughly, especially the rear seat. With my Dornier the legs weren't far enough apart.

#45: thin the instrument panel.

#46-49: make the instrument clock housings, in case you want to 'busify' the front side (those housings will be very well visible from the front).

#71-74 (after #52-61): make a step plan before tackling a bomb rack. And do yourself a favor purchasing a bottle of Gator Glue (not being "Gator's Grip glue").

#67: with the 50KG-bombs: make slits into the plastic, don't stick the PE fins toegether. Alternatively: soldering.

#69: connect wires to the instrument clocks.

#75: thin the bomb bay doors (even if you won't use photo etch).

#78: consider removing the ejector pin marks in the bomb bay (especially if the bomb racks are not used).

#80: with the pilot's seatbelts, ignore the fold lines of the upper buckles.

#85: mind the ejector pin marks topside of the bomb bay.

#90: the MG15s are opportunely replaced by metal or resin upgrades.

#90: choose well if the cockpit should be painted in RLM02 or RLM66. See the discussion about this at the beginning of this topic.

#104: don't trust the stickiness of self-adhesive Eduard photo etch parts. Always add glue, to prevent parts from sagging of falling off after six months. You won't be able to repair it then.

#106: use oil paint to improve realism of the Eduard panels (glittering + color) within seconds.

#107: the front side seat can't be fixed on the attachment points. Use CA-glue as a bridge.

#112: I found out the fuselage was warped. It's so important to check this out, the whole build success depends on straightness of the fuselage. Warped fuselage = wrongly placed wings etc. etc.

#127: nacelles PE: glue 'the lid' together with a small L-piece.

#129: nacelles PE: sand 'the lid' at the front, otherwise it won't fit.

#130: nacelles PE: ignore the gap.

#132: thin the walls.

#136: nacelles PE: do a lot of dryfitting, don't use CA for fixing. The positions as suggested by Eduard, are incorrect.

#140: thin the side walls of the engine. Not only because it's more realistic, also because otherwise the engine won't fit.

#146: be extremely careful when cleaning the plastic of the landing gear.

#152: don't glue the PE-doors of the landing gear houses to the plastic. Instead, throw the plastic in the spare box. Scratch some brass 'hinges'. Just as easy, much more realistic.

#155: drill the exhausts.

#171-182: consider vacuforming the glazing.

#189-191: make the hinges for the landing gear doors.

#196: prime + RLM02 attention point!

#198: prime + RLM02 attention point!

#200-202: make up your own mind as to what kind of weathering is realistic and desirable on 1/72 scale.

#211: priming + RLM02 attention point!

#212: priming + RLM02 attention point!

#213: use the Eduard-mask as template for an inside-mask.

#216: priming + RLM66 (or RLM02) attention point!

#219-220: add wire for operating the bomb bay doors, e.g. Uschi van der Rosten wire + Gator's Grip glue.

#238: correct a moulding deficiency to the vertical stabilizers by some simple sanding.

#239-245: correct the position of the landing gear, using a small intervention.

#246: place and remove the landing gear parts by only touching the three spots mentioned in this paragraph, to prevent fracture.

#Future: add hinges to the flaps, so that they can be connected to the wings.

#Future: airbrush glass beneath gondola RLM66 internally.

#Future: airbrush front RLM66.

#Future: airbrush glazing above bomb bay RLM02 (from above).

#Future: thin mudguards.

#Future: resin wheels.

#Future: thin pitot tube.

#Future: scratch FuG12 dipolar antennas.

#Future: covers for side-MG15s.

#Future: antenna wire with ceramic insulators.

Really enjoying this build thus far. Airfix's kit is of great quality. Eduard's photoetch is not the easiest I've done but is, eventually, doable. Bit of scratch involved but not much. Should be a moderately fast build, especially compared to my other builds.

A lot of pictures in this first post, follow-ups will be less picture-heavy.

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1.

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2.

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3.

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4.

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5.

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6.

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7.

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8.

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9.

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11.

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12. The parts to the right of the arrow will all be positioned within the green circle.

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13.

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14.

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15.

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16. The strength of Gator Glue (not Gator's Grip, which is sometimes incorrectly referred to as Gator Glue):

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17.

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18.

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19.

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20.

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21.

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22.

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23. Airfix as well as Eduard's instructions feature way too few MG15 drum lids & ties to be positioned. Fortunately there are reasonably enough specimens on the fret.

The arrows point out the positions of all the drums. They are not equally easily recognizable as such in plastic.

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25. Repairing deformation of a port side part:

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26.

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27.

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28.

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29.

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29.

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31.

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32.

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33. Scratching one of 3 oxygen regulator boxes, after having spent an hour looking for a finished PE version:

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34.

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35.

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36. After glueing in place the scratched oxygen regulator, guess what I see... probably had been stuck underneath something. Quickly swapped pieces.

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37.

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38.

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39.

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40. Dryfit is always important...

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41. Impressive, Airfix!

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42.

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43.

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44.

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45.

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46.

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47. Template for making instrument houses:

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48.

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49.

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50. Macro pictures are often very handy to correct my work. Such as the instrument house lower left corner, 2nd from the right.

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51.

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52.

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53.

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54.

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55.

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56. Difficult to bend photo etch part.

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57.

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58.

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59.

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60.

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61. Don't follow Eduard's instructions re. the bomb rack. In a further post I'll specify a better order.

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62. And don't follow Eduard's dreamy bomb construction philosophy either. First I'll show a few failed specimens. Changes: don't glue the fins to each other + use a knife + razor saw to make 4 incisions into the plastic. Put Gator Glue in those slits and then clean with thumb (except the slits). Put the photo etch in place and use Eduard's cross template.

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63.

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64.

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65.

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66. Even after taping... ugly glue residue.

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67. Finally! Revenge on Eduard!

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68.

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69.

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70. Dryfit: click this short vid.

Total spent time till now: 32 hours.

Edited by Roy vd M.

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By the way I'm planning to paint the cockpit region RLM66, bomb bay and wheel wells RLM02.

Does anyone have decisive proof that the 1/1 cockpit was painted RLM02 rather than RLM66? I'm definitely not looking for yet another RLM discussion, only to assure myself I'm (probably) doing the right thing. It seems everyone chooses RLM02 because all the others chose that before them. I think I can say I know quite a bit about the Heinkel 111 and know that even pre-end-of-1941 planes had a RLM66 cockpit and RLM02 bomb bay. RLM regulations said, if I am not mistakens, "for bombers use RLM66 in all areas the pilot can see. Rest of interior = RLM02. So the Norway Heinkel built in 1939 (!) had that RLM66/RLM02-scheme. I fail to understand why it would be different for the Dornier, yet everyone paints the cockpit in RLM02.

Origin of the confusion: pre-end-of-1941-fighters had a RLM02 cockpit.

So if anyone has decisive proof (and please, only post that... I'm not looking for a discussion) that the Dorniers had a RLM02 cockpit, please let me know. I'm looking for Reichtsluftfahrtministerium documents, color* or good b&w-pictures, information from the recently found plane now under restoration in the RAF Museum, et cetera. I'm not looking for opinions, guesses, and such.

*According to the Technical Guide, no color Dornier 17-pictures are known to exist. But can't blame me for trying :)

Thanks to anyone for responding :) Sorry to be so strict, which is not my nature, but I am very much aware that RLM discussions can lead to a lot of arguments and just want to avoid that :D

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What a gorgeous looking kit! Having said that, if the old Airfix kits had those interiors I'd probably never have got into scratch building parts....

Ian

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Thanks Ian... yes it really is splendid. And I will have to be the world's worst modeller not to make it a jewel when I'm finished with Eduard's photo etch set. The colored fret's contents are looking spectacular.

Airfix really has taken a leap... the fit is excellent (see picture 41 for example). One moulding mistake spotted till now, which was not too difficult to cure with an artery clamp plus a bit of liquid poly.

I intend to minimize scratching (only those things that would otherwise be disturbing, such as the back of the instrument panel which is clearly in view through the front glazing, and a pitot tube, stuff like that). It's a relax-project :)

And I thoroughly enjoy it, mainly because due to the high quality of Airfix's mouldings.

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That's a flying start if ever I saw one! I have always been envious of people who can model so quickly and still produce great work.

Martin

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Thanks Martin for your compliment; though it must be said that normally I am a very very slow builder (see this post for example, almost 200 hours of work, battleship hull not even ready by far) but this is a nice relax project for a change of pace. The above work on the Dornier took me 32 hours, started two weeks ago.

I really like those diversions; knowing myself, at the end of this build I'll probably be looking forward to continuing the scratchbuild works on the Dreadnought. After a few months of that, I'll do another 'quick' project etc. That will probably be the Boulton Paul Defiant.

Edited by Roy vd M.

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71. Step plan to build Eduard's bomb rack. Step 1:


Suppose the fold lines are, from left to right, "1", "2", "3" and 4", start with 1. That fold is made by a photo etch bender. Then fold 2, using a large folding knife for support, small folding knife to fold. Then, the angles at folds 1 and 2 are 90 degrees each. Next, beginning of fold 3 is made, e.g. 30 degrees. This helps attaining the full fold in the end. Next, make fold 4, 90 degrees. See the the next picture for the state of affairs at this point:


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72. Step 2:


Now for the more difficult part, fulfilling the third fold. Now I used the small folding knife for (a lot of) pressure, while making the fold itself by means of the large folding knife. So, the opposite of fold 2! Take care not to bend too far to prevent the necessity of corrections.


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73. Step 3:


3a. bend the attachment points (except the bottom one), a bit upward. It makes the plateaus slip into place more easily.

3b. put some Gator Glue on the bottom attachment points.

3c. fold the bottom attachment points (this is 'step 3' in Eduard's instructions).

3d. Position the bent bottom plateau (this is 'step 2' in Eduard's instructions).

3e. Position the bottom dropping mechanism (this is 'step 1' in Eduard's instructions).


Next, apply steps 3b-3e, but then one floor up. Etc.


Please note that the order I used is exactly opposite to Eduard's!


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74. Step 4:


4. Attach the two pulleys.


Here the 13 parts that make one rack. If the above order is followed, building these racks is a nice experience.


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75.

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76.

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Total spent time till now: 38 hours.

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Question 2:

Can you guys advise me on the type of Opel Blitz fueller that could fuel this airplane? I'm planning on purchasing one to join the Dornier in a diorama.

I have seen 1/72 Opel Blitz fuellers in T-stoff / C-stoff versions but apparently those were only intended to contain rocket fuel.

Some data:

- Engines: Bramo 323.

- Petrol: 87 octane.

Any advise would be very welcome...

(By the way, first question hasn't been answered (very understandable so, given the way I put it), to be found here)

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Lovely P.E. work Roy.

These new Airfix kits definitely have an edge on them.

Simon.

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Thanks Simon, Airfix really attained some impressive quality indeed!

77.
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78.
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79. After using Gator Glue on the bomb door strips, the ends are glued by Zap medium.
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80. Shaping the belts before painting, to prevent damage to the paintwork later.
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81.
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82. Eduard says the other seats' belts need to be bent; this is not true. Should be something like this:
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83.
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84.
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85. Using the primer phase for small corrections!
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86.
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87.
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88. Last-minute removal of dust and sanding residue (brush / knife).
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89. Priming is done by means of the great combination of Alclad II + Mr Color Thinner. Cleaning up work desk is a good thing before transporting the parts to it.
21602417000_3bd4941cfe_b.jpg
Totally spent time: 45 hours.

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Lovely progress Roy, thanks for documenting and illustrating your build so thoroughly

I'll be following each update keenly, as I've recently bought this kit on the strength of so many positive reviews. I'm also keen to hear if you get a definitive answer to your question regarding cockpit colour.

regards,

Andrew.

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The detail in that kit looks stunning, even OOB; your skill and Eduard's design pers ar taking it somewhere special. I'm following your Dreadnought build with a certain amount of open-mouthed awe; thus is pretty impressive, too!

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Roy,

Great work till now and great tips! I'll steal some of them, if you don't mind, to use with my own build of this kit.

Keep up the good work!

Jaime

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Lovely progress Roy, thanks for documenting and illustrating your build so thoroughly

Thanks Andrew, this build is illustrated wildly, as I always do, but the texts are quite summarized compared to my other build logs. Anyway, thanks for this remark, and a great pleasure!

I'll be following each update keenly, as I've recently bought this kit on the strength of so many positive reviews. I'm also keen to hear if you get a definitive answer to your question regarding cockpit colour.

The cockpit color... yes... I'm planning to paint this week, probably I'll just use RLM66 for the cockpit, RLM02 for the bomb bay and landing gear wells. It'd not be the end of the world if that turned out to be false (which I sincerely doubt), as this is not going to be a years-stretching build and not all research has to be done to have had fun. So I'm not sure this thread will provide the definite answer...

You must be looking forward to building this kit... I know I did. And till now it has not failed to surprise me (in a good way).

The detail in that kit looks stunning, even OOB; your skill and Eduard's design pers ar taking it somewhere special. I'm following your Dreadnought build with a certain amount of open-mouthed awe; thus is pretty impressive, too!

Agree with you on the high level of detail, thanks for the compliment :) The Dreadnought is a nice build to do as well, but I felt I needed this time building a lot faster. And it feels great I can tell you. After this is over, I'm sure I'll head straight back to the Dreadnought again to do all the fiddly work on those 12 pounder guns.

Great work till now and great tips! I'll steal some of them, if you don't mind, to use with my own build of this kit.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks Jaime, I remember having read your topic before buying this kit!

I've made an elaborate reply here.

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I certainly won't go that far in detailing (though your effort is quite impressive and informative) with my kit.

However I should warn you that the machine guns barrels are waaay to crude and thick for the scale and demand replacement.

Josip

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Question 2:

Can you guys advise me on the type of Opel Blitz fueller that could fuel this airplane? I'm planning on purchasing one to join the Dornier in a diorama.

I have seen 1/72 Opel Blitz fuellers in T-stoff / C-stoff versions but apparently those were only intended to contain rocket fuel.

Some data:

- Engines: Bramo 323.

- Petrol: 87 octane.

Any advise would be very welcome...

(By the way, first question hasn't been answered (very understandable so, given the way I put it), to be found here)

I believe it's the Opel Blitz kfz. 385 'Tankwagen'

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@Josip: you are right, I will pick up some replacement sets; thanks for the advice!

@Fizzy: that's the official basic vehicle type number, however there were as I understand about 140 subtypes of it. As far as I can see (checking Scalemates for example) all specimens in 1/72 are special versions, for C-Stoff and/or T-Stoff. Those liquids were used to fuel rockets or rocket-powered planes such as the Me 263A. Too bad, and a bit strange also, that no basic versions were issued by the kit makers.

I plan to purchase Mac Distribution's LG 3000 fueller. After some research re. place (East Prussia) and time (1939) it turns out that this should be a correct model to be found then and there.

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Thanks, I wasn't aware of that future release.

Now let's hope they choose to make a standard version rather than the omnipresent special versions. Often, kit makers look at each other's products for 'inspiration', hence (in my belief) all the 'special versions' of this fueling truck. If Roden make a standard fueler I'm sure they will make a lot of diorama modelers who don't want to build a Me 263A again and again, very happy.

Not sure if I'll hold my breath though, the LG3000 is also a very nice truck.

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Indeed, with so little detail who knows what it will be, or when it will appear

Airfix may well have their 'Luftwaffe Resuply Set' out before then ;)

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@Fizzy: indeed they probably might :D

@Greg: thank you for that compliment!

90. Following Josip's advice, today I purchased 6 aftermarket MG15s: 5x Miniworld and 1x Eduard. Especially the Miniworld specimens are amazing in detail; Eduard looking good as well (if only they had one more Miniworld MG15...); good to be living near Aviation Megastore where all of this stuff is just in the shelves.
21828868361_40769f7d72_b.jpg

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Hi Roy,

The MG 15s look excellent! You made me order some AM guns myself, but I went for Eduard's as Miniworld's seem to be on backorder. This will cause a change of plans for my build as explained here. I'm afraid I'll have to blame it on you... ;)

Looking forward to seeing your future posts.

Cheers

Jaime

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@Jaime: sorry for that :D


@Josip: you're right, although it is understandable that Airfix made them that thick. When I picked up Eduard's barrels for a picture, one of them broke. Probably because I picked it up wrong. So, they are very delicate and I can understand that Airfix chose not to do that (also because then the plastic might get bent very easily).



90. RLM66 was added. I used Vallejo Air 71.055 (RLM66), 71.001 (white), Vallejo thinner and Vallejo flow improver. If used in the right ratio's, airbrushing will go flawlessly. I added 20% white for scale effect. Best possible explanation: see here.


The ratio's:


- 10 drops of 71.055.

- 2 drops of 71.001.

- 6 drops of thinner.

- 2 drops of flow improver.


Mixing well, spraying goes perfectly. This is one of Vallejo Air's main advantages: you always know the correct mix ratio for each color.


Without scale effect taken into account, the ratio I use is 10:5:2 paint:thinner:flow improver, whereby the flow improver goes into the cup first.


Both cockpit halves and 10 other parts such as seats, got two layers of RLM66. I used the above cocktail formula twice, so 40 drops in total.


The color deviates from that on the instrument-PE as given by Eduard. This will always be an issue, of course also the structure of the metal parts is different. But in reality, too, the color of the instruments was usually different from the color of the surrounding metal, as I understand; and with fighters before the end of 1941 the interior color was RLM02 whereas the instruments had a RLM66-ish color. So I can live with this color differentiation, not in the least place because this is a quick build for me.


21677196059_e18ea882b8_b.jpg


Totaal bestede tijd: 46 uur.

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