Dornier 17z Airfix (1/72)

[jrlx]

Roy,

Thanks for the link to the reviews. This kit and PE set are now in my list of future purchases.

Cheers

Jaime

[Martian]

The hangar is a work of art in itself!

Martin

[Fizzy]

The hangar is a work of art in itself!

Martin

Yes indeed, did it take much time to build?

[Roy vd M.]

@Jaime: going for the photo etch as well.

@Martin: it's a nice hangar indeed! Of course still a lot has to be detailed if the same level of accuracy as the Dornier is to be achieved, but the base is great.

@Fizzy: thanks for checking out this thread. The hangar build took me about 2,5 hours to this point.

270. I filled the gaps along the flaps. This provides for a more realistic result; the flaps will be visually separated from the base wing by the use of different color tones.

271. I started building the fire truck to be used in the diorama. The topic can be found here. Verdict thus far: great little kit.

[Roy vd M.]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I finally know what the diorama is going to look like. Last few days I spent constantly thinking and researching, about 15 hours total. Further studies of the hangar pointed out that it couldn't be used. About any KG in which Dorniers have served was research, communications have started with specialists of the history of Venlo Fliegerhorst (researcher there) and Fliegerhorst St Trond (St.-Truiden, HIstoric Centre employee), a mail to the museum of Heiligenbeil (Mamonovo) was sent and numerous scenarios were checked out.

Let me summarize my findings as such, that I failed to assemble a combination of:

- 1) A Dornier 17;

- 2) of the 'z' subtype;

- 3) with codes and emblems revealed by available photos;

- 4) stationed on a known airstrip;

- 5) which airstrip had hangars that can reasonably be modelled more or less realistically, either because they still exist or because clear pictures exist;

- 6) which hangars are known to have been present at the time of Dornier 17z stationnement;

- 7) which airstrip can reasonably be expected to have featured vehicles as planned in my diorama.

Findings: either they were Dorniers 17K, or no pictures existed, or it wasn't clear on which Fliegerhorst they were stationed, or there were hangars but no pictures (or only one vague one), or the hangars were there but had only been built after writing off the Dorniers and melting them into Junkers 88s. By the end of 1940 the days of the Dornier 17 were numbered because of its obsolete defensive design. Many planes had this problem: once their weak points were discovered by the opponents, the aircraft flew as chickens toward ovens and it wasn't sensible anymore to use them as weapons.

In the end I decided to keep with the Heiligenbeil plan. The Polish campaign remains the subject (indeed, for the third time in this topic: it's going to be 1939 - really). I have a Heiligenbeil WW2 hangar top view available. The hangar will be scratchbuilt completely... very interesting subject using metal as well as brick. This implies that I will use my fantasy (unless I'll receive useful pictures from the Mamonovo museum); only the top view is known. More info soon.

[Roy vd M.]

271. Making a good template for the vacuformed front glazing: sometimes 40x, sometimes 30x sanding strokes on a sanding stick.

272. Left: the vacuformed glazing, right: the template.

273. The MG15 stands had to be sawn off.

274. See here the difference between the cartridges cast by Miniworld (the large ones) resp. Eduard (the little one). Eduard's cartridge may be used for a future project in 1/100 scale, but won't be used here.

Total spent time: 100 hours.

[Roy vd M.]

275. After vacuforming the glazing. 

 

 

 

276. Forum meetings don't always end well for models, especially if not adequately boxed. 

 

 

 

278. Quite the error on my account... top end of the wall wasn't sanded thin toward the front, as you can see in the following picture. It's no artillery armour!! 

 

 

 

279. 'Peeling' the plastic using a scalpel. Apologies for the portrait-style video. 

 

 

280. Starboard side done:

 

 

 

281. Almost ready.

 

 

282. The landing gear provided by Airfix is a very tight fit. Some sanding is in order.

 

 

 

283. Quite a bit was removed. 

 

 

284. After glueing the broken parts back together (choosing the best out of two kits), they are merrily back in place. Much easier and quicker than soldering. 

 

 

285. Cleaning a nacelle's 'panel lines'. 

 

 

286. Some parts are more difficult to reach while sanding. 

 

 

287. I wrongly chose to fill this flap-end with superglue. Will have to remove that.

 

 

293. The panel lines as designed by Airfix are way too wide (0,3mm. which would equal 21,6 mm. in real life). 

 

 

294. This is a picture of real life panel lines on a similar plane, produced approximately simultaneously... the gaps are almost non-absent. 

 

 

 

(Copyright Heinkel He 111, Walk Around, Ron Mackay, ISBN 978-0-89747-694-2, the whole book is full of nice, high-quality pictures of the whole plane. In case you wish to model the Heinkel 111, be sure to purchase the book; pictures are displayed for educational purposes only and will be deleted upon first request of the copyright holder)

 

295. Filling is simple: applying a thin layer of super glue. 

 

 

296. The surplus is removed with the help of a multitool. 

 

 

297. Then sanding using grid 400. Checking for smoothness can be easily done using a silver marker. 

 

 

298. I swiftly check for overall filled-upness by applying one stroke of 'silver'. Looks filled to me.

 

 

299. This wing is sweating!! It had appeared to me that the wing wasn't glued tightly as it should. A lot of liquid poly did the job. 

 

 

301. Some testing with pencils of different hardnesses, to later indicate the panel lines. 

 

 

The super glue fills nicely black (if no accelerator is used) so the difference between original panel lines and 2H pencil strokes can be clearly seen in the next photo: 

 

 

 

302. Using a very hard pencil (9H) I did some more testing. These new lines are really very thin and I can use a bit more pressure without the line becoming wider. Great! Note that the vertical pencil lines (=vertical on the picture) look white... same pencil though! It provides the lines a bit of a 3D feel, I can appreciate that, saw about the same thing in reference photos. 

 

 

Total spent time: 104 hours.

 

 

[Brandy]

Lovely to see this one back on the bench, and even better to see such improvements made. I agree about the panel lines, which is why I hate to see them highlighted too much on models! I'm not sure I'll go to those lengths on my He111 , in fact I know I won't as I've started painting, but maybe on the Me110 I will as that's an earlier "new mould" and the lines are even bigger!

 

Ian

[Roy vd M.]

Thanks Ian for your reaction, I wondered if anyone would notice (and/or, in British, mind) the gap   

 

Yeah the panel lines are quite wide. Love the Heinkel 111 for its beautiful aesthetics, still have to have that finished in 1/32 but that project is a bit difficult. I like the Messerschmitt 110 too, if I'm correct I have an old Matchbox kit somewhere in my (small) stack. 

 

Filling and filing / grinding has proved not to be that difficult using super glue. I do hope the effect with pencil lines will be more convincing than the filled up ditches. 

[Roy vd M.]

303. I bought Tasman and Squadron canopy vacuforms. 

 

 

 

304. This is what they look like ('eigen vacuform' means my own vacuformed piece). 

 

 

 

306. The Squadron set turned out to be too thick whereas the Tasman looks beautiful! So the Tasman it is.

 

 

 

307. Here the difference between Tasman's (above) and mine (below). 

 

 

309. Tasman canopy looks great in situ!

 

 

 

310. But looking at that picture I noticed two long leads... doesn't look right! So I corrected that. 

 

 

 

312. New flap in place + box of parts sorted! 

 

 

 

Total spent time: 105,5 hours

[jrlx]

Hi Roy,

 

Great seeing this build back. Really impressive and careful work going on!

 

Mine is in the shelf of doom and won't be back on the bench for a long while more, as I'm working on other builds right now.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

 

[Roy vd M.]

Hi Jaime,

 

Good to see you're still around this forum too   Unfortunate to hear your build is on hold, but that's more often than not the case in modelling. I encounter exactly the same 'problem'... doesn't really feel like a problem though, it just feels nice doing what I want at any given moment and I think many modellers think like that. 

 

 

313. The flap is supported by a bit of toilet paper drained in brown Gator Glue. It will expand a bit when the glue dries. 

 

 

314. Fresh green Zap... let's use it to fill. Meanwhile the flap is drying and is taped down.

 

 

315. All panel lines full of glue.

 

 

316. Sanding until a thin grey layer of paint remains. 

 

 

317. Next, bur bit on the multitool. This bur bit points to a piece of remaining glue (=light brown). It's a matter of removing that. 

 

 

318. In the corners I'll use a pointier bit.   

  

 

319. Levelling using sanding paper (I first use grit 600). 

 

320. After sanding (sanding stick and -paper) it's smooth soon.

 

 

The underside of the wings has now been completely filled and smoothed. 

 

Total spent time: 107 hours

[Courageous]

Never seen CA being used as a filler in this way, looks effective though.

 

Stuart

[Roy vd M.]

Hi Stuart, the reason to use CA is that it doesn't shrink. Any of the regular putties (with few exceptions, e.g. Milliput) will shrink... if you want a smooth flat finish you'll have to re-fill, sand again, re-fill and sand again... hoping it's finally level. CA glue doesn't give that problem: filling, waiting, levelling, done. 

 

Two interesting remarks were made elsewhere, so I thought I'd go into them in detail. 



321. First reaction was... wow that's heavy machinery to tackle something so small. Of course, at first sight it looks like that but really the multitool can be handled very precisely and without fear. I posted a video showing this. For three centimeters, more or less, I need no less than 4 minutes. For everyone who had imagined the tool bit grinding through CA glue and plastic easily... not so. The glue is rock hard. The 'licht brown' line of CA glue becomes narrower and smaller, then you know you're almost there. Just check every few seconds and you'll be alright. Should a dent occur, you could either sand it smooth or leave it be. It's only realistic, as those panels often weren't 100% smooth. 

 

 
322. Second interesting question: how to achieve a lively look once there are no more panel lines.

 

The answer is, that once finished there will be many more panel lines than provided by Airfix! 

 

There were at least two reasons to fill the 'gaps'. First, they were way oversized (2,1cm. on the real plane, where a maximum of 0,1cm. would be allowed, more or less). The second reason is, that the position of the Airfix panel lies was incorrect all around. I can give several examples, but will limit to some. See here a view of the resurfaced Dornier, compared to the kit: 

 

 

 

 

 

Not only are there too few lines (which will be added), more importantly several of those are just wrong. See how many panels would have been visible on the real plane (lower fuselage, below cockpit):  

 

 

 

And how little (and randomly) of that can be seen on the kit: 

 

 

 

 

How come Airfix didn't get it right? I think they used the Airdoc-book (2005). The much more recent Kagero-book (2015) contains drawings that are more accurate by far... (although, knowing Kagero, they probably aren't 100% correct) but when the Airfix molds were finalized (the kit was issued in 2014) the info in the Kagero book couldn't be taken into account. Here a comparison between kit, photo and Kagero-drawing. 

 

 

 

After all panel lines will be drawn by pencil (also in reality the wing and fuselage surfaces of German planes was mostly flat, though the panels can be distinguished), I'll apply nuances with oil paint. 

 

I'll go for effects as seen on the last photo above. Weathering and lining will be very very subtle though, because I want to replicate a plane that arrives in Heiligenbeil, East Prussia, freshly finished in 1939. 

 

(Copyright, respectively, AirDoc "Dornier Do 17 E-Z Do 215 B, Manfred Griehl, ISBN 3-935687-42-7"; Kagero Monographs #60, Dornier Do 17/Do 215, ISBN 978-83-64596-33-9; RAF Museum Cosford, education purposes only, pictures will be deleted upon first request). 

 

[Roy vd M.]

323. Top of the plane covered in glue.. not a pretty sight.

 

 

324. The glue is thin and drippy, so for CA glue-filling of its sides, the plane should rest tilted. 

 

 

325. The top of the plane is treated a bit more rough with the multitool, for 3D oil canning effect. 

 

 

 

 

326. Using pencil lines I drafted where the 'rivet lines', 'panel lines' and 'fold lines' would be. I'll simply refer to all of those as 'panel lines'.  

 

 

 

327. The original plan was to draw the panel lines by pencil and to add variation / oil canning / weathering using oil paints. A friend of my, Silenoz, gave me the great tip to have a look here.

 

The technique showed there convinced me instantly. I didn't know it and had to read through the text three times to understand how this modeller (Koppalakki) had managed to do this. Eventually I found out and I'm eager to share the technique with you. This way all of the (external) of the plane plating will be painted (safe inspection hatches etc.), they will be drawn with a pencil. 

 

I'm testing on an empty soda bottle, after a tip by fellow modeller Airbus56. First I applied primer (using a H&S airbrush). After that, a coat of Vallejo Model Air black. 

 

 

328. Opaque black coat.

 

 

 

329. Next a coat of RLM65, so the light blue colour featured on the Dornier's underside. Black shows through (slightly) irregularly.  

 

 

330. I mask the first 'panel' (in this case I mean, the space in between four rivet lines) using two pieces of Tamiya tape. Should have been three (one more at the bottom). 

 

 

331. I add a drop of white to the RLM65. That lighter shade I'll airbrush along the tape. For this I prefer the Iwata, which is exquisitely precise. After this line of paint I remove the tape and reattach it a few millimeters further (=bordering the next 'panel'). 

 

 

 

332. I do this multiple times. This way, the 'panels' originate. 

 

 

 

333. In the end I tape the other side (finally) and spray a thin line along it, perpendicular to the other lines, before finishing these 'panels' by adding a thin coat of lightened RLM65... irregular, to enhance the oil canning effect. Where the effect is less required, add a bit of paint. 

 

 

334. This way you get a wonderful illusion. 

 

 

 

When holding this test piece at some distance, you can barely see there are any lines at all. Studying it up more closely, it really looks threedimensional, while it's in fact 2D. I am very happy to have learned (of) this method and look forward to painting the plane this way. 

 

Thanks to master builder Koppalakki for sharing this great method, which I'd never seen before. 

 

Spent time: 109 hours