Vlad Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hi all, I'm having a devil of a time finding decals in 1/72 for the "double chevron" that has the white outline ONLY, as on Hartmann's Bf 109G-10: http://i60.tinypic.com/2cfbia1.jpg Anybody know where I can get a set? I don't necessarily want a Hartmann decal set, just those chevrons! Every set I've found either has them in solid black or solid white, sometimes black with white outline but never what I actually want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Not my item and I would think you might find them cheaper but this old Almark set seems to have what you want http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-72-Almark-German-WW2-Staffel-markings-Luftwaffe-see-pics-for-details-/221880265460?hash=item33a9182af4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bil Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I have the Almark transfers (at least that's what I though them to be when I bought them many years ago) partially used. pm me if you'd like me to send you a couple of outline white chevrons - with no guarantees as to their usability! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Thanks rossm, but that eBay listing says "unused" while the picture clearly shows two items cut out of the sheet. OK so it's two items I definitely don't need, but as far as guarantee of usability is concerned, I wouldn't say those are any better or worse than bil's offer. Do you have the ones in the 4th column from the left? I think they are proportionally closest to the picture I posted earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bil Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Vlad, you have a pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 A bit of a thread drift but you do know that was an ERLA built G10 with the different oil cooler and squared off engine cowl don't you? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Thanks rossm, but that eBay listing says "unused" while the picture clearly shows two items cut out of the sheet. OK so it's two items I definitely don't need, but as far as guarantee of usability is concerned, I wouldn't say those are any better or worse than bil's offer. Do you have the ones in the 4th column from the left? I think they are proportionally closest to the picture I posted earlier. Sorry, I had that sheet years ago but not any longer. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 A bit of a thread drift but you do know that was an ERLA built G10 with the different oil cooler and squared off engine cowl don't you? Duncan B Not at all, as much info as possible welcome. Weren't G-10s originally built by Erla as the "sweetheart airplane", G aiframe but K engine? What do you mean it has a different engine cowl? Would I have to make modifications if I buy a "standard" G-10 kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Not at all, as much info as possible welcome. Weren't G-10s originally built by Erla as the "sweetheart airplane", G aiframe but K engine? What do you mean it has a different engine cowl? Would I have to make modifications if I buy a "standard" G-10 kit? The 'standard' G10 built by the other factories differed form the ERLA built G10s most noticeably on the left hand side of the engine cowl below the windscreen where they had a curved panel similar to the K (there were subtle differences between factories but only very slight) whereas the ERLA G10's had a straight edge to the cowl under the windscreen which you can see on your original profile as a vertical panel line. The ERLA G10s oil coolers were also a different shape from the standard G10s of the other factories. You didn't say what scale you are going to be building, the only ERLA G10 I am aware of in 1/72 at the moment is the Loon Models resin conversion but AZmodel are supposed to be tooling all the G10s and AS models sometime soon. I'm not sure what is available in the other scales. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Vlad here is a link to the Loon Models ERLA G10 conversion that I built about 5 years ago (it's a bit of a mess by my later standards). If you compare the left hand side of the fuselage with a standard G10 you'll see the difference. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/73101-me109g10-erla-built-kgj27/?hl=%2Berla+%2Bbuilt+%2Bg10 Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) If you're still looking for those white double chevron decals Vlad, these might do the job for you? I use this guy a lot & the Kopro decals seem to be of a good quality. Steve Edited September 16, 2015 by stevehnz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Stevenhz, Thanks for the link, unfortunately the picture doesn't seem to show the configuration I am after. Duncan, I am aware of the differences in 109 cowlings but I didn't realise the asymmetric one was the Erla standard, thank you for correcting me. I was originally planning to use this AZ kit for the project but I can see it has the wrong cowling: http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AZM7501 The Loon conversions however look very nice and not too expensive. I am now tempted to really treat myself for this project! One concern, I've built resin ships and I know they can warp over time. What is the danger with resin planes, since there is no way to support the wings? On a related note, I thought all G-10s had the large rectangular wing bulges for the main gear wheels (as the K-4) but I am now questioning this assumption. I can't see them for example on the famous pictures of Hartmann by his Erla machine in spring 1945. What's the consensus on G-10 wing bulges? Oh also, canopy on Revell kit is dire, any recommendations for a replacement? Thanks again! Edited September 16, 2015 by Vlad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I can try to look some information about Erla planes tomorrow. Now I don't have references in my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberduck Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If it is any help Paul Davis will be going to the St Ives Model Show organised by the IMPS Brampton on the 27th September 27th 2015 at the Burgess Civic Hall, Westwood Road, St Ives, Cambridgeshire, PE27 6WU with all his decals. This will be the first time he has attended this show for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Regarding double chevron - what about this Techmod set?: http://allegro.pl/1-72-kalka-messerschmitt-bf-109f-2-techmod-72007-i5107591774.html or that one: http://allegro.pl/1-72-kalka-messerschmitt-bf-109g-2-techmod-72052-i5108574757.html There is interesting set of dry decal (I do not know this technology well - maybe someone is more familiar to tell more) http://allegro.pl/print-scale-001372-luftwaffe-1940-45-insignia-1-72-i5621743128.html Cheers Jerzy-Wojtek Edited September 16, 2015 by JWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think I built that G10 in 2010 and it hasn't warped at all, I did use the Loon resin wing with dropped slats and flaps too which is a solid piece of resin and quite strong. I didn't use a Revel kit as the donor but used bits from a Finemolds 109 instead, I think the canopy was a vacform one I had in the stash. Not all G10s had the large bulges over the undercarriage bays and in fact for a type that was supposed to be a 'standard' there were lots of variations, tail wheels being another. As always study your references if you are bothered about being 100% accurate. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 I should probably have said so sooner, since this thread has wandered off-topic anyway, but I have a few offers from kind members for the Almark set that has what I need. Thanks for all your suggestions, it seems that is the only thing that works unfortunately. Duncan, I was looking at those wings too. I like to build my planes wheels up, so I was thinking about cutting off the ailerons and offsetting them, same with the rudder and elevators, to show the plane in a hard turn in combat (only time really slats would be out while wheels are up). My only concern is that I know the 109 flaps were hand wound, I don't know how many pilots would have gone to the trouble to lower them for combat, so that aspect might be unrealistic. I also don't have a spare donor kit and the way my planning is going it might be easier to just buy etched and/or resin upgrade sets to fill out all the missing bits, instead of buying a kit I'll only use 10% of. Hope you don't mind me dredging your memory, but from reviews it seems the Loon wing set comes with a propeller, tail wheel, supercharger intake, radiators and a bunch of other goodies. Can you confirm exactly what's in that set (so I can work out what parts I would still be missing) and if their quality is good? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bil Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) There was an article in the Luftwaffe SIG magazine years ago about Hartmann's markings. No doubt the detail has been superseded by later research, but the level of discrepancy and the lack of mention of a G-10.......... ): Is there now photographic evidence of a G-10? Edited to remove bad links; see later post below. Edited September 17, 2015 by bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hope you don't mind me dredging your memory, but from reviews it seems the Loon wing set comes with a propeller, tail wheel, supercharger intake, radiators and a bunch of other goodies. Can you confirm exactly what's in that set (so I can work out what parts I would still be missing) and if their quality is good? Thanks again! Yes you are quite right that the Loon conversion came with those other parts to correct the Revell kit parts. The quality of the Fuselage halves and those other parts was excellent. The wing set was also a very detailed moulding and included the small (and large wheel bulges if I remember correctly) and a template for positioning the small bulges. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Bil, I can't open the links because it says your photobucket album is private. The following images show what is claimed to be Hartmann's Erla built G-10. Cowling shape supports this. From the second picture it looks like small wheel bulges (mostly by absence of the larger ones). I believe I read that the werknummer is known, I can't find it right now. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mXd38keFi-I/UTT1PaAiGoI/AAAAAAAAKSw/ZYezCC-Zgec/s1600/Hartmann_1a_zps4cf3af4d.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ERkV7rRO_Yc/UTT1M5SkWRI/AAAAAAAAKSo/6QwDR6THl-0/s1600/Hartmanncid_89636c64_5fc7_4f6a_9687_edited-1_zpsa7152dd6+(1).jpg Edited September 17, 2015 by Vlad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Somewhere was mentioned that this G-10 is 491446. But I don't remember now where that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bil Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Vlad, sorry.... let's try again: I have seen those photos before, they bear little relevance to the stuff above. According to Prien and Rodeike, G10s in the 41xxxx range had small wheel bulges, long tail wheels, tail with Flettner and two fixed trim tabc, and probably had a DB605 AS engine with the smaller Fo870 oil cooler and no chin bulges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Thank you for the very amusing read, to be honest I'm close to reaching the same conclusion Having said that, I'm not sure when that was written but most of those references have been thoroughly disproved and we have a much better idea of what aircraft he flew (I should know, I'm building two of his planes and the point of this thread is me planning a third... modelling gods help me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Ok, some more information to this topic. There are three different main engine cover types for G-10. -Engine cover 90: This is for DB 605 ASM engine. This engine cover is with "new type" machine gun bulges and small addition bulges lover corner. -Engine cover 100: This is for DB 605D oil filling hole in left side is higher than in previous model. In right side cold start hatch is positioned higher. -Engine cover 110: This is redisigned wider engine cover no bulges and oil cooler is lower and wider. Oil filling and cold start like 100. Werkenummers are: Mtt Gmbh Wnr 130100-130700 production 123 G-10's Erla Wnr 150500-151088 production ~350 G-10/R6 Erla Wnr 151498-151634 production ~80 G-10/R6 Erla Wnr 151825-151999 production ~100 G-10/R6 Erla Wnr 490130-490399 production ~270 G-10 Erla Wnr 490400-490799 production ~350 G-10/R6 Erla Wnr 491100-491500 production ~370 G-10/R6 WNF Wnr 610300-611099 production ~370 G-10/U4 WNF Wnr 611900-612010 production ~70 G-10/U4 WNF Wnr 612700-613199 production ~210 G-10/U4 WNF Wnr 770100-770399 production ~200 G-10/R2 WNF Wnr 770900-771199 production ~100 G-10/R2 Then some pictures. Information is from Hannu Valtonen's book that deals Me-109 production and pistes as well Top is 100 and lowest is 110 Top of this picture is plane from 610000 series with engine cover 100. Edited September 19, 2015 by Vesa Jussila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Thanks for that, excellent detail info there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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