Silver underside of Lightning - Lacquer before decals?

[RMP2]

I know that I should gloss before decalling, but is that a safe thing to do to a metallic finish ala the underside of a Lightning thats been sprayed with Humbrol enamel (191 Chrome, which has turned out rather metallic instead of smooth)?

Metallics get all funny with lacquer/varnishes dont they..? Or am I all wrong?

For the gloss coat I was going to use Halfords automotive cellulose stuff, after decalling I was going to use the same but in a satin finish ready for a dirty wash, followed by a sealing coat of satin.

Will that be ok?

Apols for the noob questions, its a first time for me with this lacquer shenanigans, please be gentle.

Edited September 5, 2015 by RMP2

[RMP2]

If its any help, heres how it looks, very flat and quite rough to the touch - more that likely down to me spraying it too lighty thinned or at to high a pressure perhaps?

I have micro mesh that might be an idea to run over it with before hand, what do you guys reckon?

[Graeme H]

Although I have some Humbrol 191, I've not used it, so really no idea how it performs, it does sound like your paint wasn't thinned enough though to get that result.

My guess is that the only reason it sprayed on was because of the high pressure, a pebbly finish is a fairly typical result from a thicker paint mix.

I think your idea of trying Micro Mesh has merit, but maybe just a small part first to see what result you might get, you would have to sand down or Micr Mesh the while thing to repaint anyway.

Experiment on something else with a much thinner mix, keep changing it to see what might give a better result, and cut the pressure down to about 15-20 psi should be more than enough for a thin mix

[RMP2]

Makes sense to me, Graeme. Still learning here, the hard way at times. Still, I quite like the finish its given, at least it didnt kill the preshading as Ive done elsewhere.

I will hit a bit with the mesh, see how it likes it, but what about the glossing over a metallic for decal application? The more I think about it, the more I think it must be fine, how else would people get decals down nicely on metallic painted things?

[RMP2]

Re the Humbrol 191 and how it goes on - with a brush Ive always found it very smooth in finish, glossy and not at all "speckly" in regard to the metallic side of things. I sprayed a little more of it tonight, touching up the vetral fins and doing the under wing fuselage silver sections - mixed it 50/50ish with thinners and it came out nigh on the same as the previous but a tad glossy. No idea if that helps with anything at all, but there it is.

[bentwaters81tfw]

Always decal over a gloss surface, The decals bed down better, there is less chance of air bubbles, and 'silvering' even on a 'silver' or NMF finish, and it's easier to reposition the decal as required.

[AnonymousAA72]

I know that I should gloss before decalling, but is that a safe thing to do to a metallic finish ala the underside of a Lightning thats been sprayed with Humbrol enamel (191 Chrome, which has turned out rather metallic instead of smooth)?

Metallics get all funny with lacquer/varnishes dont they..? Or am I all wrong?

For the gloss coat I was going to use Halfords automotive cellulose stuff, after decalling I was going to use the same but in a satin finish ready for a dirty wash, followed by a sealing coat of satin.

Will that be ok?

Apols for the noob questions, its a first time for me with this lacquer shenanigans, please be gentle.

I'd be very wary of using a cellulose varnish over enamel. I have used Halford!s gloss before but when it dried, it crazed., and was rock hard. I couldn't even sand the stuff off. Try it on some scrap first..and maybe consider using Humbrols or Tamiyas versions...

[RMP2]

Youre not wrong, Bill. The lacquer hasnt crazed, but it seems to have a taste for the edges of the grey camo where it meets the green and has slightly eaten into it, only there though, nowhere else and on no other colours. Its also gone on a little heavy and as you say, its rock hard. Ill get away with it, its only slight and not noticeable when its on the shelf, but it doesnt encourage me to spray any more, thats for sure.

Something of a pain as I wanted it finished this weekend and everywhere is shut, apart from Halfords... Doh.

[RMP2]

Bill - did you use cellulose or enamel lacquer from Halfords? I see they carry both and was hoping the enamel stuff would behave.

[AnonymousAA72]

Bill - did you use cellulose or enamel lacquer from Halfords? I see they carry both and was hoping the enamel stuff would behave.

I'm afraid I can't remember now, it was some years ago, I suspect it may have been enamel,but I can't say for certain...

[neilh]

I once used the celloluse clear lacquer from Halfords before I started airbrushing and it wrecked the enamel paint. If you have an airbrush to spray the Humbrol, why not get some gloss varnish like Alclad which you can spray on before the decal stage? As for the Humbrol, it does look as if its not thinned enough or you are spraying at too high a pressure. Enamels should spray smoothly in nice thin coats and not really need much polishing before gloss coating. As you can spray, I'd recommend you consider trying Alclad for future metal finish projects. It's very easy to get a nice finish ( especially if the base plastic is smooth and you lay down a nice smooth primer coat. Not so good for preshading, but post shading and washes after will produce the same effect for you.

[RMP2]

Thanks.

I picked up some Halfords enamel lacquer earlier, just because it was all I could get. Ill have a little test first though...

The cellulose was simply left over from painting some 1/24 cars that had been painted in their genuine automotive paints, as such it was in my head that I had lacquer so didnt pick any proper stuff up. Its my first aircraft build for over 20 years and my first time lacquering and airbrushing, Im not normally this short sighted.

Re the silver finish, again, it was my first time trying out the larger nozzle on the airbrush and I suspect it was the pressure that was too high as the preshading shows through well enough. I could well be wrong though!

Cheers guys, Ill take a look for some Alclad lacquer and see what else is available. Im guessing I want to be looking at enamel or acrylic, nothing else for going on top of enamels?

Edited September 6, 2015 by RMP2

[RMP2]

For the record - Ive sprayed the paint test mule with the Halfords enamel lacquer over some Humbrol enamel dark sea grey (164) and an hour later I see no nasties. I went for a few light coats of lacquer on one wing and went very heavy with one coat on rear stabiliser and its all good, the heavy coat actually looks the better of the two.

My only concern now is if the enamel lacquer will be ok over the cellulose stuff, so thats the next test.

[lightning770]

Makes sense to me, Graeme. Still learning here, the hard way at times. Still, I quite like the finish its given, at least it didnt kill the preshading as Ive done elsewhere.

I will hit a bit with the mesh, see how it likes it, but what about the glossing over a metallic for decal application? The more I think about it, the more I think it must be fine, how else would people get decals down nicely on metallic painted things?

Hi Rmp2 I have a problem with your preshading a natural metal finish a/c. In my understanding there is no dark patches on panel lines like you get with painted panels. Forget the preshading. I run flory hobbies dark dirt in the panel lines then when dried wipe away. As for Natural metal finishes you can't go wrong with ALCLAD II cellulose paint it's fantastic. Personally I never use humbrol metal cotes. Happy modelling.

[RMP2]

Its only the underside. But youre not wrong. Modellers tend to way overdo the shading, pre or post, in my eyes, compared to the real thing but it looks kind of cool and adds some interest. For me it was an experiment, first time with an airbrush and I was going to keep the shading very faint, but I like it, so it stayed.

I used Humbrol as thats what I have a large stash of, mostly from many, many years ago.

In the future I may well try the Aclad NMF stuff, but while I have silver paint, I have silver paint.