Vietnam Combat-SAR SH-3A

[Giorgio N]

Having a very old Airfix Sea King kit in my stash, I'm toying with the idea of building one of the machines used for combat-SAR operations in the Vietnam war. Now there seem to have been two types used:

- Simple SH-3A, likely stripped of the ASW gear

- The more specialised HH-3A, with door mounted gun and the capability of carrying two miniguns in pods on the rear weapon stations

Staying with the former for a while, I've seen pictures of machines from HS-2, for example 2 pictures appear in Squadron Signal's In Action title on the Sea King. Personally I would say these aircrafts were in overall Engine Gray, that was the standard scheme of the era for USN ASW helicopters. The various titles, originally in white, seem to have been overpainted in black. There's a Corgi die-cast however that shows one of these machines as overall green machine... personally I'm not convinced, I believe that the overall green scheme was used on the HH-3A after the war only (it sure was as pictures taken in the '80s show green machines). The presence of what look like overpainted stencils in the In Action pictures are IMHO confirmation that the helicopters were overall Engine Gray. Any thought from anyone who has studied the subject before ?

Now the HH-3A... I've not seen any carrying the minigun pods apart from the Sikorsky prototype. In any case there are some interesting colours in the few pictures dating from the Vietnam war that I've seen. One seems to be in SEA scheme, another in several tones of green. More interesting seem to be a couple of machines in overall grey. Question is, which grey ? Anyone knows more ?

[andyf117]

Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another...

Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117

[theplasticsurgeon]

When I built this Sea King earlier this year - well one of the unused options is a 'Field Green' Marines example.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234975262-tims-sh-3d-us-navy-build-completed/

I never really paid much attention to it - always planning a Grey/White sub hunter, but looks like the unit is MX16.

You're welcome to the leftover decals

[Giorgio N]

SEA camouflage SH-3A:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SH-3A_HS-2_USS_Mahan_1967.jpg

This article contains a list of all the HH-3As of HC-7:

http://www.hc7seadevils.org/OrphansPt1.pdf

Ctrl F 'HC-7' here will bring up a number of overall grey SH-3As, but only in b&w:

http://www.gonavy.jp/bbs2-h3.html

Colour photo here:

http://vietnam.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/sh3seaking-variants.html

Big Mother 70 in SEA, overall grey, and with M134 door-mounted minigun close-up halfway down this page:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/16/t/82613.aspx?page=4#1473270

Thanks for the links, unfortunately none of the picture is new to me. I still have doubts about the colour schemes. Interestingly the one I believe is in SEA is also shown in the Squadron book where they state it's in dark green tan and grey.... not sure Squadron is right though

The PDF on the other hand is something I had never seen before and contains interesting info, will be very useful !

When I built this Sea King earlier this year - well one of the unused options is a 'Field Green' Marines example.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234975262-tims-sh-3d-us-navy-build-completed/

I never really paid much attention to it - always planning a Grey/White sub hunter, but looks like the unit is MX16.

You're welcome to the leftover decals

Thanks for the kind offer ! Does the instruction sheet mentions anything about the location of the aircraft ? Was it over Vietnam ?

[theplasticsurgeon]

Thanks for the kind offer ! Does the instruction sheet mentions anything about the location of the aircraft ? Was it over Vietnam ?

Doesn't actually say - I can't find anything about that unit either.

[andyf117]

Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another...

Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117

[Don McIntyre]

This SH-3A is at the American Helicopter Museum in West Chester, Pennsylvania.It's finished in an overall green (FS 34102?) with Black low-viz markings.

http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/AmericanHelicopterMuseum/SikorskyHH3ASeaKingHelicopter/index.htm

[Giorgio N]

Andy, thanks for the info on the Fujimi kit. The VIP variant is not something I'm considering at the moment, although it is actually quite interesting in itself.

Don, thanks for the link. I believe that the scheme worn by the museum Sea King was applied to all SAR SH-3As after the Vietnam war. The paint used could be FS 34097, as used on other USN/USMC helicopters of the days

[Panoz]

HC-7 Sea Kings in overall Engine Gray from Francillon's "US Navy Air Wings" (note yellow rescue arrows in the H-3 still in high-viz markings in the background):

And the are the photos from the links in a previous post for comparison:

I recon they are most likely FS16081 Engine Grey:

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=16081

Of course your mileage may vary...

Edited October 23, 2015 by Panoz

[FIGHTS ON]

just found this topic as it seems to answer most of my questions on USN CSAR SH-3s from Vietnam. 

 

I am currently reading "Bloody Sixteen: The USS Oriskany and Air Wing 16 during the Vietnam War" - probably the most sobering book on Air Combat & leadership that I have ever read. Particularly fascinating is the stories of some of the SH-3 SAR efforts (in support of the Oriskany) which has lead me to do some research into the SH-3s in USN use at the time. 

 

So may pass a genuine "thanks" to ALL the posts above and there are some great links. Clearly I am already looking to see what could potentially be done from the new Airfix (Westland!) Seakings (they supply a 5 bladed tail rotor, but what else I've Still to figure out). 

 

Having "grown up(!)" around RN Mk5/6 & Junglies most of my life, I was shocked to see that in  Andyf117's gonavy.jp link there is a variant of the Seaking (RS-3(?)) that seems to have a cabin door on the port side as well? Is this right or a reversed negative published by the author? It seems that the USN SH-3s not only had their ASW gear ripped out, but extra doors & windows (& armour I guess??) added. 

 

I understand from my history why the USN kept CVS (ASW variants of Essex class CVs up on Yankee station) ready for a potential chinese sub threat, and it was these CVS embarked SH-3 sqns that supplied the crews & airframes for the CSAR. Can anyone point me in a direction where I might read more on the make up of these CVS embarked air wings?

 

Thank you

[junglierating]

Hmm looking forward to seeing what you might do Giorgio👍

[andyf117]

Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another...

Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117

[Finn]

Here is one with an M-60 in one of the windows:

 

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv33-68/212.htm

 

Jari

[easixpedro]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:52 PM, FIGHTS ON said:

just found this topic as it seems to answer most of my questions on USN CSAR SH-3s from Vietnam. 

 

I am currently reading "Bloody Sixteen: The USS Oriskany and Air Wing 16 during the Vietnam War" - probably the most sobering book on Air Combat & leadership that I have ever read. Particularly fascinating is the stories of some of the SH-3 SAR efforts (in support of the Oriskany) which has lead me to do some research into the SH-3s in USN use at the time. 

 

So may pass a genuine "thanks" to ALL the posts above and there are some great links. Clearly I am already looking to see what could potentially be done from the new Airfix (Westland!) Seakings (they supply a 5 bladed tail rotor, but what else I've Still to figure out). 

 

Having "grown up(!)" around RN Mk5/6 & Junglies most of my life, I was shocked to see that in  Andyf117's gonavy.jp link there is a variant of the Seaking (RS-3(?)) that seems to have a cabin door on the port side as well? Is this right or a reversed negative published by the author? It seems that the USN SH-3s not only had their ASW gear ripped out, but extra doors & windows (& armour I guess??) added. 

 

I understand from my history why the USN kept CVS (ASW variants of Essex class CVs up on Yankee station) ready for a potential chinese sub threat, and it was these CVS embarked SH-3 sqns that supplied the crews & airframes for the CSAR. Can anyone point me in a direction where I might read more on the make up of these CVS embarked air wings?

 

Thank you

My apologies for being late to the party... (and my first post here, after lurking for years!)

 

Check out HS-6's website: http://raunchyredskins.us/ click under "operations" and you'll see most of their CSAR ops, and plenty of pics of the birds.  I started a build over on Z-5 several years ago to depict one of their rescues (though I did a poor job of updating it). When finished, I was able to donate it to the squadron and it now resides in their Ready Room aboard the Midway Museum.

 

And lastly, I'm the author of Bloody Sixteen--thanks for the kind words!

-Peter

[FIGHTS ON]

Peter,

 

great link - thank you, not just for the pictures but the links to some of the sobering, yet thrilling stories behind the rescues. We seem to live in an era today where the title of "hero" is all too quickly bestowed on , frankly, average individuals. Whilst NONE of the individuals you detail in your book would dare call themselves "heros", I frankly find their leadership and sense of duty (not just to nation, but to brother officers) most humbling to read. That you have brought their stories to life ( balanced with an excellent strategic - yet almost futile - overview of the Rolling Thunder campaign) makes this simply the best Air Combat read I have made. Whilst not available to me at the time, this surely must be a recommended (mandatory??) read fro those attending Staff Course???? 

 

Following my read of your excellent book, I have just finished in quick order 3 books all centred around CSAR ops @ NKP: Dave Richardson (pilot of Jolly 09) "Vietnam Air Rescues", George Marrett's "Cheating Death and Richard Diller's Firefly (Air war over Laos). These books clearly cued me up to read Kenny Fields "Rescue of STREETCAR 304" as both George Marrett and Richardson took part in the rescue. [ Those that have made Tamiya's excellent A-1J Skyraider - the box art is of George Marrett's A-1 "Sock-it-to-them"]

 

It strikes me that with Vietnam War aircraft such a popular modelling theme, that these aircraft schemes seem to be missing from the available decal sheets. I wonder if the number of Silver Stars and Cong Medal of Honours (spelt with a "u"!) awarded to CSAR missions outweigh those awarded to other mission types? Mind you, I am struggling to find Air Wing 16 A-4 decals from this period, yet 2 subsequent Vice & Presidential nominees flew and were shot down flying them!

 

Anyway, enough rambling - enough inspiration on this thread now to have-a-go at trying a HS-6 SH-3.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[easixpedro]

Happy to help! Here's my build before the great photobucket fiasco of '17 killed my mojo. http://zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=30926&highlight=CSAR haven't been posting builds since, but life has kind of accelerated on me.

 

As for decals, you can find the standard F-8 squadrons, but the A-4 squadrons are only done on the OOP Victory Sheet from years ago! It's maddening to me how little info is available on the lesser known a/c and squadrons. Have been toying with making an SH-2  from Clyde Lassens MOH flight, but there's a dearth of info on early model SH-2A's and zero markings...  Here's a link to his exploits: https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/kaman-uh-2a-seasprite/

 

Will gladly follow along as you build!

Peter