F4U-4 Corsair, use in WW2, are photos that rare?

[Troy Smith]

Hi

in this RFI thread http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234987663-matchbox-vs-airfix-corsair/#entry2085582 itcame up that the use of the F4U-4 in WW2 is not widely known.

I'm not that up on the Corsair, but it seems photos of the F4U-4 in WW2 are scarce, I can only think of 3 examples

this one, which is a double page spread of one on Corsair at War pages 125-126, of USS Lake Champlain

I'm glad I looked this up, as this thread has comments on the just visible badge

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54273

Hmm, the white wing markings look to have some kind of outline now I look, more obvious on the port wing. Anyone know more about this?

and this one that was F4U-4 from VF-82 aboard CV-15 USS"Randolph"

EDIT

found this on wiki, which dates it as 1946..

A U.S. Navy Vought F4U-4 Corsair of Bombing Fighter Squadron 82 (VBF-82) "Checkmates", piloted by Bud Geer, is preparing to take off from the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Randolph (CV-15). VBF-82 was assigned to Carrier Air Group 82 (CVG-82) for a deployment to the Mediterranean Sea from 22 October to 21 December 1946. During that cruise, VBF-82 was redesignated VF-18A and CVG-82 was redesignated CVAG-17 on 15 November 1946.

Date 4 December 1946

shame as I thought it was WW2 but does explain the worn appearance.

Particularly interesting for the weathering and worn paint. This was posted up by a chap on another forum, and he made some other interesting comments

1. It shows how the insignia blue was really darker than the sea blue of the camouflage.

2. The fabric covered areas on the underside of the wing can also be weathered/worn off even if many modellers say it's not possible.(note plane #4, top left)

3. The stains behind the exhausts are not necessarily light and not so large, even if the a/c is pretty weathered etc.

another USS Randolph shot here

Chance Vought F4U-4 Corsairs of CVG-82 ready for launch from USS Randolph (CV-15), circa [1946]. Seen behind the Corsairs are Curtiss SB2C-5 Helldivers and Eastern TBM-3E Avengers. Photo Chuck McCandliss.

Photo and text taken from Carrier Air War In Original Color by Robert Lawson and Barrett Tillman

from http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/15.htm

I did find some still of USMC F4U-4's, but not sure where, and think those are saved on another machine.

My knowledge of the Corsair is limited but it is surprising that not much is made of the F4U-4 use in late WW2, or am I mistaken and it's just I have not read the right books/found the right sites?

There was a an amusing snippet here which may entertain the What-if fans..

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234933596-hobbyboss-148-f4u-4-corsair-late-interesting/#entry1233971

I remember reading somewhere that the air group commander of a RN Fleet Carrier which was part of the BPF (it might have been Major Ronnie Hay RM?) was offered a couple of squadrons worth of shiny new 4 bladed Corsairs (F4U-4?) in return for a couple of crates of Whiskey at a US Navy forward supply depot, however he was forced to decline as he didn`t think that he could sneak them past the Admiral on board. He thought that even an Admiral would notice these shiny new overall blue aircraft having been used to the tired and dirty looking camouflaged Mk.II`s!

It would make a nice WHIFF, especially with those clipped wing tips, they may even have swapped the wings over from the Mk.II`s to avoid having to convert the new Corsair wings?

Just an idea,.......and sorry about the vague details, I definitely remember reading it but cannot remember where!!

All the best

Tony O

hope of interest, I'm hoping to get Dana to add some snippets

Cheers

T

[Seahawk]

Suggest that apparent border may be clean GSB (protected by the masking tape used to delineate the design) with an outline of white overspray.

[Graham Boak]

The overspray problem used to be notorious in modelling circles concerning RNZAF P-40s and their (assumed) purple edging. However, it doesn't look like that to me in this photo. There doesn't seem to be any sign of an overspray, and the colour close to the bars looks different to that away from any overspray.

I suspect the reason for the limited evidence for F4U-4 operations is that they came late, and generally away from the main interest. Worldwide, fighter-bombers did not attract the same attention as pure fighters.

[Troy Smith]

The overspray problem used to be notorious in modelling circles concerning RNZAF P-40s and their (assumed) purple edging. However, it doesn't look like that to me in this photo. There doesn't seem to be any sign of an overspray, and the colour close to the bars looks different to that away from any overspray.

I suspect the reason for the limited evidence for F4U-4 operations is that they came late, and generally away from the main interest. Worldwide, fighter-bombers did not attract the same attention as pure fighters.

I was under the impression that the F4U-4 was the replacement 'hot-rod' fighter and the older models went over to the fighter-bomber role?

Happy to be corrected as I started this to learn more.

I agree with Graham on the outlines to the wing, markings, I was wonderng about colour, but perhaps is just fresh Insignia Blue, which only just occurred when looking at the comments quoted on the colour pic.

[Graham Boak]

The Corsairs were predominately used by the Marines, and hence predominately in the fighter-bomber role at this stage. I don't have a listing of units and their operational history to enlarge or contradict this statement, but the USN was very late in getting any Corsairs onto their carriers and it was the USN that was likeliest to encounter Japanese fighters. The F4U-4 would have been superior in the counter-Kamikaze role, but the USN had no fear of the quality of Japanese fighters at this stage and so no great demand for improvement. However, it's always nice to have.

[Nick Millman]

The Insignia Blue standard is slightly darker than the GSB standard and the very evident chalking of the GSB in that photo is probably emphasising the difference. L*a*b* values of the two colour standards:-

IB = 25.3 -0.60 -6.91

GSB = 25.8 -2.07 -6.08

The L* value shows that the IB is slightly darker. Both a* and b* values are negatives therefore in green and blue respectively rather than their positive opponents of red and yellow but interestingly they reverse the higher value for each with IB significantly closer to green but marginally further from blue.

Munsell (both Purple Blues):-

IB = 3.7 PB 2.5/1.5

GSB = 0.1 PB 3.0/1.3

Second value is darkness to lightness (0-10) and third value colour saturation. IB is therefore slightly darker and more saturated.

USAAC specified non-chalking pigments for insignia paints - perhaps the same for USN?

Nick

[airjiml2]

One more of 67 is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/133697406@N05/18652258702/sizes/l

Jim

[Troy Smith]

Thanks Jim

very neat shot.

Bit more hunting, interesting thread here

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=5116

which a google of this gets...

2Lt Whisenhant taxies his F4U-4 VMF-222 Okinawa 1945

the heavy exhaust staining is of note!

[Troy Smith]

The Corsairs were predominately used by the Marines, and hence predominately in the fighter-bomber role at this stage. I don't have a listing of units and their operational history to enlarge or contradict this statement, but the USN was very late in getting any Corsairs onto their carriers and it was the USN that was likeliest to encounter Japanese fighters. The F4U-4 would have been superior in the counter-Kamikaze role, but the USN had no fear of the quality of Japanese fighters at this stage and so no great demand for improvement. However, it's always nice to have.

Looking through the Flickr pics in the link Jim posted...

F4U-4's of VBF-86, USS Wasp summer 1945

from https://www.flickr.com/photos/133697406@N05/18033763884/in/album-72157651990327954/

these are very fresh looking, and possibly still in USA when photo was taken.

hmm...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wasp_(CV-18)

On 13 April 1945, Wasp returned to the Puget Sound Navy Yard, Bremerton, Washington, and had the damage caused by the bomb hit repaired. Once whole again, she steamed to Hawaii and, after a brief sojourn at Pearl Harbor, headed toward the western Pacific on 12 July 1945. Wasp conducted a strike at Wake Island and paused briefly at Eniwetok before rejoining the rampaging Fast Carrier Task Force. In a series of strikes, unique in the almost complete absence of enemy airborne planes, Wasp pilots struck Yokosuka Naval Base near Tokyo, numerous airfields, and hidden manufacturing centers. On 9 August, a kamikaze plane swooped down at the carrier, but an alert gunner, who was cleaning his gun at the time, started shooting at the airplane. He shot straight through the windshield and killed the pilot, but the plane kept on coming. Next, he shot off a wing of the airplane causing it to veer off to the side, missing the ship.

Then, on 15 August, when the fighting should have been over, two Japanese planes tried to attack Wasp‍ '​s task group. Fortunately, Wasp pilots were still flying on combat air patrol and sent both enemies smoking into the sea. This was the last time Wasp pilots and gunners were to tangle with the Japanese.

The overhead shot on wiki dated ^ August 1945 shows SB2C's, Hellcats and F4U's I think?

[airjiml2]

I didn't think to look at this, but there is one giveaway that the photo of "2" is postwar. Notice the difference in the canopy between 318 and 67, where the rear has a semi circle of metal and a rounded windscreen and "2" which has the later style of no metal at the rear and the flat windscreen. I think all WW2 F4U-4s would have the same canopy as the FG-1Ds and therefore have the semi circle and rounded windscreen.

Ken Walsh is purported to have flown a F4U-4 in the summer of 1945 coded 13 with a nice scoreboard below the cockpit. I think the EAA Museum aircraft is painted in his markings. No idea if it was a propaganda thing or if the flew it in combat.

Jim

[LDSModeller]

The overspray problem used to be notorious in modelling circles concerning RNZAF P-40s and their (assumed) purple edging.

Not over spray, but the residue left by the masking tape used to mark out the white ID lines on the P 40's.

The avgas soaked rags used to remove the coral dust off the aircraft, appears to have caused the residue to become more apparant and led to the "idea" about "Red| outer lines" to the white. And of course the printing of decals thus.

The notoriety still continues in other ways, lots of RNZAF SME's out there (old saying, about a little knowledge........ )

Regards

Alan

[Graham Boak]

This is the first convincing reason I've seen for the colour, but it was the contrast with overspray beyond that gave the impression of there being dark lines around the marking in the first place. The overspray is visible in good photos.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Graham Boak

[KRK4m]

Looking at these pictures from Okinawa I still consider, why - for last 50 years or so - have I think that all F4U-4s had left factory in overall Gloss Sea Blue?

BTW their Intermediate Blue looks very dark indeed.

[Troy Smith]

Looking at these pictures from Okinawa I still consider, why - for last 50 years or so - have I think that all F4U-4s had left factory in overall Gloss Sea Blue?

BTW their Intermediate Blue looks very dark indeed.

HI

No, they are GSB, just very heavy exhaust staining, as i noted in the post.

[warhawk]

  

1 minute ago, warhawk said:

A rather interesting decal sheet has been released:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dp-casper-72033-corsair-f4u-4-at-wwii--1328990

 

[Work In Progress]

Resurrecting one ancient thread for this would have been enough. Resurrecting two is a bit... unnecessary

Edited January 29, 2021 by Work In Progress