Jump to content

1:144 Pan Am 747-121 Clipper Seven Seas


Recommended Posts

Hi civil aircraft enthusiasts :)

I'm going to build an early 747. It is next up after I've finished my Zero. It has to be a Pan Am with three upper deck windows - they were the ones I saw in the late '70s as a child. They blew me away. I loved Pan Am and I loved 747s.

I've wanted to build this for a long time but it wasn't until I had to spend an additional couple of quid at Hannants to get free postage that I bought the 26decals http://www.26decals.com/STS44107-Pan-Am-late-Boeing-747-121-screen-printed-decal. The next day I went to my LHS and bought the Revell 747 SCA/Shuttle kit and ordered the Extratech detailing set for Revell 747s http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/EX14423. Turned out to be an expensive way of avoiding Hannants postage charges :)

The decals arrived today. They look lovely and I'm pleased that the instructions provide some livery advice. BUT, I open this thread to all who can offer advice because this will be the first proper civil aircraft I've ever built and I want to do a good job of it. Any hints and tips will be greatly appreciated. I have some questions:

-26decals call for natural metal finish. Which would be most appropriate? I want to use one of the Alclad shades but I don't know which one would be best. This http://www.austinsms.org/Alclad-Lacquer-Metal-Finishes.phptells me there are 17 shades of NMF. I'd like something shiny, very lightly weathered. 105 Polished Aluminium? I don't know.

-26decals call for Corogard. Never heard of it. What is this Corogard of which they speak and what shade might best represent it?

-I can deal with gloss white and gloss Boeing grey. 26decals kindly provide an xtracolor code (X301) for the grey. I've never used xtracolor before so when I put in my order to Hannants I need to buy xtracolor thinner. I'm good with that.

Part of me wants to use the actual window apertures - there aren't any clear styrene parts for the windows so this will be tricky. I am not sure that glue 'n' glaze will be suitable - I don't want uneven concave windows. Can anyone offer advice (or a good link) on how decent flush clear windows might be achieved? I know nothing! I am happy to mask and paint the blue strip along the windows but do not know what would be the most appropriate shade of blue or the order window making and blue painting should be done - I definitely don't want to have to mask a bazillion windows - unless there is a relatively straightforward way of doing it. It might be best to fill the windows and use the decals, but it wouldn't feel right to me.

I would really appreciate any advice on these issues.

Best wishes

Danyel

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an item on here that I've used, you fill the windows with Milliput (or similar), sand it flush and then decal the windows on. I got excellent results from it. I appreciate they won't be clear, but they will be perfectly flush & square.

Good luck!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Aah, the old Pan Am 747s. Saw quite a bit of the world with them, but in the 90s they were certainly long in the tooth, and seeing bits and pieces falling off was not uncommon - but I loved 'em. ( My travel was always on a stand by basis, but we'd get first class if seats were open, and they usually were ). Had a large piece of ceiling come down as the main wheels touched down at Heathrow, and once outside of Buenos Aires the cabin crew quietly woke us up with a story that the plane was out of water, so if we wanted to freshen up, do so now before economy awakens.

I generally use rattle cans for my airliners, so I can't be of much help with the colour guide. In the world of rattle cans, Boeing Grey is closest to Canadian Voodoo grey, but I have never been able to find that, so use Gull Grey. My windows, I use decals, so again, not much help to you again.

Coroguard is actually not a colour per se, it's an additive of sorts that is added to paint, that inhibits corrosion on the wings and rear stabs. Each plane in the fleet could look different, depending on how long ago it was done, what paint used etc. It generally is some form or grey though - I have a can of satin finish Stone Grey that I rather like the effects of. If the wings are mostly silver, then Gull Grey can also be used.

None of these colours are an exact match, and purists will squirm when reading this, but they come close.

Looking forward to seeing this one develop.

Cheers,

Mike

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I know very little about the specific colours, particularly with civil aircraft, I do know that I love Xtracolor paints! I've heard that Revell thinner works really well with their enamels, however I've never tried it. I use J Perkins thinners and have never had any problems with it.

http://www.jperkinsdistribution.co.uk/list.php?ExpandRef=H104&subcat=136&cat=Dope%20-%20Sealer%20-%20Thinners&Navmain=Paints,%20Dope,%20Brushes#H104

I don't know if it's my naivety, but the paints seem quite thin already so I find myself adding less thinner to begin with, probably 40:60. It might just be me though so have a play around!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Danyel,

Welcome to the wonderful world of civil airliner modelling!

I'd recommend filling your windows too, it's so much easier and in the long run I believe more convincing especially if you use these

http://www.authentic-airliners.de/epages/64205758.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/64205758/Products/D144-04 as I do on most of my Boeing models. I know it's more expense, but as you've already bought the ExtraTech detail set you obviously want a detailed model!

As for masking and painting the blue cheatline they are included on the 26 Pan Am sheet you have, so there's no need.

Hannants Xtracolor do Corogard enamel x331 but I don't know if it's available at the moment. It's not a problem though as you can mix it yourself, just add a drop of aluminium to any grey and there you are. See this thread on airlinercafe http://www.airlinercafe.com/forums.php?m=posts&p=43606#43606

Good luck with your project and don't forget the weathering, the Pan Am 747s I remember seeing were anything but clean!!

Cheers,

Ian

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a bunch of reference photos for you :)

Note that the windows appear to be black holes. Decals would be best, especially since Revell stuffed up the shape of the cockpit glass so badly :(

The "Typical Boeing wing" is overall Boeing grey, with a dull aluminium leading edge and Corogard in the inspar area. I like to use Testors Steel in the little square bottle for my Corogard. Most Pan Am 747s were very heavily used, so they lost the pristine factory fresh look quickly and got grimy and dull. Take a look at the pictures. Even the ones taken in the 1970s show that they're looking pretty tired. Your natural metal shades shouldn't be overly shiny, and you can even (Shock! Horror!) add some weathering. Graphite dust blowing back from the flap and aileron hinges, rain streaks below the windows and doors, slight blue tint behind the lav service panels...

Watch out for the dodgy fit of the engines. Out of the box they need a fair amount of TLC to make them look good. Welsh Models offers a set of resin replacements if you have more spare money in your wallet ;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Love your project! I lived near Chicago's O'Hare Airport in the 60's-70's, and I remember walking home from school one day, looking up above the trees and seeing what seemed to me the biggest and most magnificent thing I'd ever seen in the air--one of those beautiful Pan-Am 747 Clippers. It was huge, and seemed close enough to touch. Never got tired of seeing those big birds; really sad I never got to fly in one.

I'll be following your build with great interest.

Link to post
Share on other sites

fill the windows with Milliput (or similar)

but they will be perfectly flush & square.

OK guys, so many of you have said fill the windows that I'm convinced. Filling windows with milliput on the to do list. The fact they will be flush and square is very important - I don't want glaring visual errors drawing the eye. Thanks for the reminder phildagreek :)

bits and pieces falling off was not uncommon

Proper scary stuff!

Hannants Xtracolor do Corogard enamel x331 but I don't know if it's available at the moment. It's not a problem though as you can mix it yourself, just add a drop of aluminium to any grey and there you are. See this thread on airlinercafe http://www.airlinercafe.com/forums.php?m=posts&p=43606#43606

Good luck with your project and don't forget the weathering, the Pan Am 747s I remember seeing were anything but clean!!

Thanks for the pointer to Hannants. It isn't available but I requested an alert. Boeing grey isn't available either :( The thread was an interesting read on the colour of corrogard, thank you. I want to avoid enamels if I can. They mess up my head something rotten, make me feel ill for days.

I can see that I'm going to have to factor weathering into this.

Here's a bunch of reference photos for you :)

Note that the windows appear to be black holes. Decals would be best, especially since Revell stuffed up the shape of the cockpit glass so badly :(

The "Typical Boeing wing" is overall Boeing grey, with a dull aluminium leading edge and Corogard in the inspar area. I like to use Testors Steel in the little square bottle for my Corogard. Your natural metal shades shouldn't be overly shiny,

Graphite dust blowing back from the flap and aileron hinges, rain streaks below the windows and doors, slight blue tint behind the lav service panels...

Watch out for the dodgy fit of the engines. Out of the box they need a fair amount of TLC to make them look good. Welsh Models offers a set of resin replacements if you have more spare money in your wallet ;)

Thank you for the link to the photos :) Lots of good images there.

Unshiny metal shades sounds a bit like I should be aiming more for Alclad 101 Aluminium? Graphite dust and rain streaks all sound good. All on to do list :)

I've read about the poor engines. It is partly why I ordered the etched set, for the fan blades. TLC will have to be a must as there is no more money to be thrown at this one, I'm sorry to say, apart from the required paints.

Testors steel. I'll look into that. I'm going to have to research the different colour combinations of Corrogard, what with Xtracolor corrogard, Testors steel, light gull grey and a grey with aluminium added all mentioned. Sounds like the situation I have with the aotake colour for my Zero - it's somewhere between blue and green!

the biggest and most magnificent thing I'd ever seen in the air

Bingo! That's exactly how I felt about them :)

Thank you for the advice guys. Given me much more to mull over :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Danyel.

I see from your profile that you are in the UK. Are you anywhere near a branch of Halfords? Many airliner modellers use Halfords Appliance White paint either sprayed straight from the can or decanted into an airbrush. Halfords Racking Grey is a good likeness for Boeing Grey - see this thread particularly post 8: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234981909-flyglobespan-boeing-737-600-in-1144/

A very eminent modeller on this site recommends Halford Rover Steel Grey for Corogard. Personally I find it too dark but I still have some Xtracolor enamel so I haven't really explored alternatives yet.

Halfords paint is usually best applied over their own primer, either grey or white. Tamiya primer is also very good but it's expensive and not always easy to find.

If you do decide to follow the Halfords route it's a good idea to practise on an old model first before committing yourself to the real thing.

Incidentally, if you do manage to source some Xtracolor Corogard be aware that the tinlets have a nasty tendency to explode when you open them. I'm not the only modeller to fall victim to this but in my case I needed a wall of my dining room repapered and my wife's favourite lampshade re-covered. It's very fortunate that I wear glasses otherwise I'd have got the stuff in my eyes. You should ALWAYS cover a new tinlet of Xtracolor Corogard with a cloth when you open it for the first time.

HTH

Dave

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A great thread, really interesting! Those pictures posted by Jessica actually make my flutter! What beautiful aircraft! I want a go at one now :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

To add my warning to Dave's re the Xtracolor corogard - below is a recent pic of my kitchen ceiling, the result of my opening my tinlet of the stuff. It's a mini compression bomb I tell you!

If nothing else, maybe you can sort of make out the colour, a sort of silvery grey.

ceiling_zpsbgdmfnax.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Danyel.

I see from your profile that you are in the UK. Are you anywhere near a branch of Halfords? Many airliner modellers use Halfords Appliance White paint either sprayed straight from the can or decanted into an airbrush. Halfords Racking Grey is a good likeness for Boeing Grey - see this thread particularly post 8: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234981909-flyglobespan-boeing-737-600-in-1144/

A very eminent modeller on this site recommends Halford Rover Steel Grey for Corogard. Personally I find it too dark but I still have some Xtracolor enamel so I haven't really explored alternatives yet.

Halfords paint is usually best applied over their own primer, either grey or white. Tamiya primer is also very good but it's expensive and not always easy to find.

If you do decide to follow the Halfords route it's a good idea to practise on an old model first before committing yourself to the real thing.

Incidentally, if you do manage to source some Xtracolor Corogard be aware that the tinlets have a nasty tendency to explode when you open them. I'm not the only modeller to fall victim to this but in my case I needed a wall of my dining room repapered and my wife's favourite lampshade re-covered. It's very fortunate that I wear glasses otherwise I'd have got the stuff in my eyes. You should ALWAYS cover a new tinlet of Xtracolor Corogard with a cloth when you open it for the first time.

HTH

Dave

Thank you for this advice - it is very welcome. In your thread you mention "Paint is by Halfords - Appliance White, Vauxhall Flame Red and Racking Grey - decanted and airbrushed in accordance with my usual practice. Natural metal is done with various Tamiya and Revell acrylics." What is your usual practice for painting the appliance white and the racking grey? I would prefer to airbrush them. I'm happy to use Halfords white primer for this. (I don't really want to use my usual vallejo primer as I'm going to need to sand and fill and scribe and I want a robust primer. Do you need to thin the halfords colours before using them in an airbrush? What pressure do you spray them at? What would you thin them with, as I'm new to airbrushing and find that I am having best results with thinner paints at lower pressures for control and accurate coverage?

Sorry to heear about your wall. Exploding tinlets, bits falling off real 747s, oh my gosh! What have I let myself in for? I thought civil aircraft were meant to be, well, civil!

Where's BAC gone? Brian are you here? :)

The plot thickens!

To add my warning to Dave's re the Xtracolor corogard - below is a recent pic of my kitchen ceiling, the result of my opening my tinlet of the stuff. It's a mini compression bomb I tell you!

If nothing else, maybe you can sort of make out the colour, a sort of silvery grey.

ceiling_zpsbgdmfnax.jpg

Sod xtracolor corogard for a game of soldiers!

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'll be needing to:

-fill the windows with milliput (improve the awful revel shape around the front windows) and use the 26decals instead.

-get Halfords white primer, Halfords appliance white, Halfords racking grey, Alclad 101 aluminium for the dull aluminium leading edges.

-use graphite for the flap and aileron hinges. Rain streaks for doors and windows. Not doing icky blue stains from lav(atory) waste. Ew.

-find out who the mysterious BAC is.

-avoid falling chunks of 747s and lethal xtracolor corogard tinlets. Put on my slippers, put on my Sherlock Holmes hat, put on my smoking jacket, get my pipe out, (aka sit on the doorstep and have a fag) and think more about the 'Corogard Colour Conundrum'.

- Beware of dodgy engines.

-finish painting 1:1 scale bathroom, finish 1:72 zero.

-Do some proper work before my supervisor finally loses it with me.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Corogard Colour Conundrum comes from the fact that in real life it's a clear carrier medium into which is mixed a quantity of aluminium powder at the time of application. This means that no two batches are exactly alike, and the aluminium powder reflects light differently depending upon the incidental angle of the light hitting it. It's not uncommon for one wing to appear bright while the other looks dark, for example. This is why you can get away with any middling-dark metallic looking grey colour and still be accurate.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Corogard Colour Conundrum comes from the fact that in real life it's a clear carrier medium into which is mixed a quantity of aluminium powder at the time of application. This means that no two batches are exactly alike, and the aluminium powder reflects light differently depending upon the incidental angle of the light hitting it. It's not uncommon for one wing to appear bright while the other looks dark, for example. This is why you can get away with any middling-dark metallic looking grey colour and still be accurate.

As there is some leeway in the correct colour of corogard I'm hoping that Halfords Titanium BMW silver will be a good match (and I will then have to repair the small dent on the other side of my car with the remainder. Please say it's a good match).

Edited by Danyel
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Danyel

You can also get Corogard as a decal set (forgive me if I have missed this in the mega store of wealth above but I have "sped red" down to here) - If you feel tempted to go decal, I may have a spare set somewhere I can root out for you as a freebee (no promises as I do need to check my stock)

John - PS great choice on a 747 - big beautiful birds

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's important to say that nobody here will ever tell you that their way of building, painting or whatever is the only way you should do it. We all have our own individual techniques and what works for me won't necessarily work for somebody else. As I've said before there is no right way and no wrong way, only what gives you the result you want and what doesn't.

The vast majority of modellers who use Halfords paint spray it straight from the can and get superb results. I'm one of a very small minority who prefer airbrushing, mainly because in the early days my ham-fisted attempts to spray from a can led to a couple of good models being ruined. Having said that, I always spray primer from the can and never have any problems. Personally I prefer grey primer even if the top coat is white because I think the grey shows up flaws and imperfections better than the white. (A wise modeller once said you should think of priming as the last stage of building rather than the first stage of painting). As always, several light coats are better than one heavy one.

To decant Halfords paint, take a standard airbrush paint jar and cover the top with a piece of kitchen foil. Shake the can for a couple of minutes then take a plastic drinking straw and sellotape it over the can nozzle. Poke a hole in the foil big enough to take the straw, put the straw through the hole and squirt. Once you have enough paint in the jar remove the foil and put the lid on but don't tighten it. Leave the paint to sit for a good couple of hours to let the gas boil off. Before you actually use it give the jar a gentle shake and if you see any bubbles in the paint leave it a bit longer. There is no need to thin the paint for airbrushing and if you've decanted too much it should still be useable the next day as long as the jar is tightly capped.

I'm hopelessly unscientific when it comes to things like airbrush pressures. I don't think I've changed the pressure on my compressor for about five years. I generally go with what feels right which is around 20-25psi on the gauge, however accurate that might be.

One downside of airbrushing automotive paint is that overspray can dry in the air and then land on the model giving a rough, pebbledash effect which can be difficult to smooth properly. Areas around wing root fairings and flap fairings are particularly at risk. You can usually avoid it by taking care and sticking to light coats but if it does happen Micromesh polishing cloth is your best friend. I usually start at grade 1800 and work up though the grades to 120000. The problem generally doesn't happen when spraying from the can.

I can't stress too much the need to practise and experiment on an old model if you're using techniques which are new to you. I have an ancient Minicraft 707 which I use for this and it has saved several expensive mishaps.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's important to say that nobody here will ever tell you that their way of building, painting or whatever is the only way you should do it.

The vast majority of modellers who use Halfords paint spray it straight from the can and get superb results.

I always spray primer from the can and never have any problems. Personally I prefer grey primer even if the top coat is white because I think the grey shows up flaws and imperfections better than the white.

To decant Halfords paint, take a standard airbrush paint jar and cover the top with a piece of kitchen foil. Shake the can for a couple of minutes then take a plastic drinking straw and sellotape it over the can nozzle. Poke a hole in the foil big enough to take the straw, put the straw through the hole and squirt. Once you have enough paint in the jar remove the foil and put the lid on but don't tighten it. Leave the paint to sit for a good couple of hours to let the gas boil off. Before you actually use it give the jar a gentle shake and if you see any bubbles in the paint leave it a bit longer. There is no need to thin the paint for airbrushing and if you've decanted too much it should still be useable the next day as long as the jar is tightly capped.

I'm hopelessly unscientific when it comes to things like airbrush pressures. I don't think I've changed the pressure on my compressor for about five years. I generally go with what feels right which is around 20-25psi on the gauge, however accurate that might be.

One downside of airbrushing automotive paint is that overspray can dry in the air and then land on the model giving a rough, pebbledash effect which can be difficult to smooth properly. Areas around wing root fairings and flap fairings are particularly at risk. You can usually avoid it by taking care and sticking to light coats but if it does happen Micromesh polishing cloth is your best friend. I usually start at grade 1800 and work up though the grades to 120000. The problem generally doesn't happen when spraying from the can.

I can't stress too much the need to practise and experiment on an old model if you're using techniques which are new to you.

:) Your advice to use the appliance white and racking grey sound right so I'll go with them. I can also repair my dented second hand fridge freezer with the remainder of the appliance white. Double bonus if the BMW titanium Silver is a go-go!

Grey sounds better. I'm happy to prime from the can, but not the top coat. Thank you for the decanting advice. And pressure and overspray advice :)

I don't have an old model so will have to spray directly onto the 747 (cue dramatic music) da-da-DAH!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck with your project but I really would advise you to buy a cheap kit of some kind, knock it together and practise on it. Once Halfords paint is on it's not easy to get it back off. There is a whole thread on that subject here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968485-acrylic-remover/

BTW if you're thinking of buying Micromesh the finest grade is 12000 not 120000 as I see I typed in my last post :banghead:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The BMW Silver might be a trifle light for Corogard. Test it first on a piece of scrap plastic, margarine tub, ice cream bucket or what have you, just to be sure you'll like it. Maybe if you apply it over a very dark base coat it'll darken up a bit? Or perhaps rub some graphite powder in to get that slightly dark metallic sheen? Play about and see what looks good to you.

Remember, you're the one who has to be happy with your model, nobody else ;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Hi again

Thank you all for the advice :)

I have been gathering materials and am almost ready to start, am nearly finished my Zero.

Here's the obligatory box shot:

IMG-20151104-01274_zpsxhm1mfze.jpg

Extratech etched parts. These are really tiny, gulp!

IMG-20151104-01277_zps4csh3idd.jpg

Big, big thank you to Gimme Shelter, who sent these corogard decals through the post:

IMG-20151104-01276_zpsvrxrx88i.jpg

Pan-am decals from 26decals:

IMG-20151104-01275_zpspc0grdlu.jpg

Went to Halfords bought some grey primer, racking grey and appliance white. Also bought some Alclad for the aluminium parts:

IMG-20151104-01273_zps2azgpe0h.jpg

More soon :)

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like a promising start. You've obviously invested a lot of thought and a fair amount of cash in the project and at the risk of sounding like a stuck record I would just repeat my advice about throwing together a cheap kit and using it for practice before committing yourself to the real thing.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking forward to this one Danyel.

All the best

Chris

Thanks Chris :) I'm looking forward to it too. I finished my zero and spent three hours clearing my desk. Dusted and de-cat-haired it and cleaned my tools and equipment. Am all good to go.

IMG-20151106-01279_zpsnwancaud.jpg

Looks like a promising start. You've obviously invested a lot of thought and a fair amount of cash in the project and at the risk of sounding like a stuck record I would just repeat my advice about throwing together a cheap kit and using it for practice before committing yourself to the real thing.

Thanks for your concern, Skodadriver, very kind :)

I've got it in my head that I've got to build it, though. I'll compromise: I will practice with all the new paints (the rattle cans) on an old model before I put them on the 747.

And I'm going to take it slowly :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...