Jump to content

ReConcorde


Col.

Recommended Posts

If all goes well with the NATO Lightning my second project will be the military reconnaissance version of the civilian Concorde airfiner as used by the RAF :D

Back story to follow once I've checked a few facts and made up the rest.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the kit I'm planning to use;

20150810_093633.jpg

20150810_093701.jpg

A simple kit with a low parts count and no interior. I'm off to East Fortune for a poke around their Concorde tomorrow so will get plenty reference photos of the exterior and wheel bays for potential extra details.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the cancellation of the RAF B-70 program after the true cost of using such an expensive machine had been reviled to a horrified Commons Defence Select Committee so went the projected RB-70 reconnaissance version. The immediate effect was to accelerate development of the TSR.2 into service as the Eagle GR.1 and much of the work on the new cameras and Side-Looking Radar for the RB-70 was incorporated into the 'R' part of its designation as well as being shared with the Canberra PR variants.

While the Eagle proved a valuable tactical reconnaissance asset to compliment the Canberra in the strategic role this did nothing to dissuade rivalry between squadrons of the two types. Canberra crew were quick to make much of their machine's capacity to carry more kit by telling Eagle crew the 2 in TSR.2 stood for the minimum number of Eagles required to do the job of a single Canberra flight. In reply Eagle crews pointed out that they were out and back from a mission by the time a Canberra was at operating altitude. Along with an element of truth to both sides of the friendly rivalry there was also a growing desire within the RAF for a replacement to the potential capacity lost when the RB-70 was cancelled. A high speed, high altitude, fully equipped aircraft able to carry a full range of optical and electronic equipment sounded ideal and was slowly taking shape in the Anglo-French Concorde program.

Began as a joint supersonic transport project with military potential the Concorde was soon seen as less suitable in the now unpopular strategic bomber role and more suited to the task of strategic reconnaissance. Able to ply its trade at a speed and height that would prove beyond interference from most fighters and with sufficient space to carry its crew and equipment over long ranges in relative comfort the Concorde quickly became a popular asset in both British and French service following introduction during early 1973.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see a white plane and I want it painted black...

Go on, you know you want to.

At the moment I'm thinking white undersides with grey/green uppers but need to check my time-line as the white may have to be light aircraft grey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oooh, lovely back story anything with the vague whiff of TSR2 (like here) is in my opinion, a really kewl build; I love the "rivalry" you created with the Eagle and Canberra, well done!

Chomp chomp

-raptor

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A visit to East Fortune gave me a good poke around their Concorde and answered a few questions before I get started with this one. Alas half the hangers were closed for a major refurbishment and many of the exhibits were crammed away out of sight including the newly restored Blenheim. I left rather disappointed because of this as there was no mention of the current situation on their website.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the moment I'm thinking white undersides with grey/green uppers but need to check my time-line as the white may have to be light aircraft grey.

My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that Concorde was painted white for the same reason that the SR71 was painted black - to aid cooling of the airframe.

Graham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that Concorde was painted white for the same reason that the SR71 was painted black - to aid cooling of the airframe.

Graham

Hmm, now you mention it I recall hearing the same thing, this could limit my colour scheme options :(

Hold on, it's a Whif, sure I can come up with a suitable bit of equipment to counteract that :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Either that or go for anti-flash white, why it'd be anti-flash I don't know but whatever

How about any of the Nimrod scheme's? They all have plus points :-)

Funny you should mention those options gents as I was thinking along similar lines while on the bike today. So;

Anti-flash white. Suits the post-nuclear strike reconnaissance role but perhaps a little late for that by mid-70s?

Nimrod grey/white. Relatively low-vis and still able to keep the airframe cool. Suits the time-scale as well.

Nimrod hemp/grey. Low vis again but less likely to keep things cool.

Bear in mind both the Nimrod schemes worked for the R.1 but then again it didn't hoon around at Mach 2 plus.

Overall silver or natural metal. Nah - too 60s.

Overall black. Too USAF/CIA and about the worst colour to camouflage an aircraft operating at any level in daylight.

Green/grey over light aircraft grey. Suits the mid-70s and was my original idea but might cook the airframe.

What do you think gang?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny you should mention those options gents as I was thinking along similar lines while on the bike today. So;

Anti-flash white. Suits the post-nuclear strike reconnaissance role but perhaps a little late for that by mid-70s?

Nimrod grey/white. Relatively low-vis and still able to keep the airframe cool. Suits the time-scale as well.

Nimrod hemp/grey. Low vis again but less likely to keep things cool.

Bear in mind both the Nimrod schemes worked for the R.1 but then again it didn't hoon around at Mach 2 plus.

Overall silver or natural metal. Nah - too 60s.

Overall black. Too USAF/CIA and about the worst colour to camouflage an aircraft operating at any level in daylight.

Green/grey over light aircraft grey. Suits the mid-70s and was my original idea but might cook the airframe.

What do you think gang?

I was toying with a similar alternative history where the Concorde switched from a high to low level role as a replacement for the Valiant B Mk.2 Pathfinder, as the aircraft was operating at a lower altitude, and hence speed, it would be able to wear a conventional grey/green over white underside scheme although at one point I did consider a sand/mid-stone Red Flag exercise scheme for one of the aircraft deployed to Nellis AFB alongside the RAF's Vulcan force.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was toying with a similar alternative history where the Concorde switched from a high to low level role as a replacement for the Valiant B Mk.2 Pathfinder, as the aircraft was operating at a lower altitude, and hence speed, it would be able to wear a conventional grey/green over white underside scheme although at one point I did consider a sand/mid-stone Red Flag exercise scheme for one of the aircraft deployed to Nellis AFB alongside the RAF's Vulcan force.

Sand/mid-stone on Concorde? :wub: Please do this one soon Richard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the same Group Build big enough for two RAF Concordes?

Oh yes! Given I haven't started my one yet there isn't technically one yet and we have two Finnish Spitfires and a couple of RAAF Gnat so why not?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say anti-flash white, maybe make a point of saying they switched to Nimrod low-vis schemes and found the overheating to remain a problem so just kept them that way despite the rest of the V Bomber fleet turning to green/grey/silver.

Then again I am biased, I think anti-flash white on any of the V bombers is some of the nicest camo ever made

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i Col

A suggestion, as this is a what-if, perhaps a colour back story as well.

A reminder, in WW2 . The high altitude scheme as medium Sea Grey over PRU Blue, though for the very high altitude flying, the Mosquito XV used 'Deep Sky' which is a rich mid blue.

dz385.jpg

The Mosquito XV got up 43,000 ft, but At the height Concorde cruised at, apparently the sky above is purple.

I tried to find out more..

http://www.answersandquestions.net/astronomy/what-color-is-the-stratosphere.htm

What color is the stratosphere?

The second layer of the atmosphere, the stratosphere, does not refract light rays or disseminates, spreads in the direction of the sun. That is why in this layer the sky appears dark blue.

The SR-71 was mentioned, IIRC they had to develop special paint for the markings, so perhaps a high altitude recon Concorde would be a dark blue, or purple-blue.

Would make for a striking model.

you mentioned this

Overall black. Too USAF/CIA and about the worst colour to camouflage an aircraft operating at any level in daylight.

given the comments about the stratosphere, perhaps not. But, give it a British twist, and you can have back story on the development of 'Strato Blue'

one other, less British idea, is Haze Paint, but maybe be of interest.

http://www.34thprs.org/html/aircraft/haze.html

Haze Paint has been an unguarded secret for nearly 60 years. It's a camoflage story that has "slipped throught the cracks" so to speak. Having never been listed in any Technical Order, and having been withdrawn from use before the appropriate revisions could be printed, Haze Paint has been something of a mystery. Since the peculiar properties of the paint made samples impractical, color chips were never circulated. Though it was the standard high altitude photo reconnaissance camouflage paint scheme from March to October 1942...most will not even be aware of its existence...or the fact that it was applied to nearly 130 photographic Lightnings! However, if any camouflage ever achieved invisiblity...Haze Paint was it!
It was in the summer of 1940 when a prominent paint manufacturer named Samuel Cabot contacted that Army about a new white paint with "unusual properties". It was a colloidal solution of zinc oxide in oil originally know by his stock number L 31340. These "unusual properties" were the grains of pigment themselves. They had a diameter below the wavelength of blue or violet light, which causes a high reflection in these color ranges. This is known as the "Tyndall Effect." This is what makes our skies blue, and the purple of our mountains majesty. Cabot theorized that by spraying this pigment over a dark blue or black base coat, only blue and violet would be reflected...with all other colors of the spectrum being absorbed by the dark base coat. Differing angles of reflection would change the rate of absorbtion and theoretically match the ambient sky color. Although "invisibility" was not promised under all circumstances, it was felt that under certain weather conditions and lighting situations, that this scheme would yield favorable results.
Cabot took his theories to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology which was involved with a number of military related scientific projects. Their engineers found his theories sound and hence urged the Materiel Division of the Army Air Corps to institute full scale testing. It would not be until late December 1941 that these tests would take place.
The December tests of the new paint scheme were performed using a Republic P-43. These initial trials were encouraging as to the prospects of utilizing this new pigment. In March 1942, Lockheed was given instructions to paint all of it's F-4 Lightnings in Haze Paint.
WHAT IS HAZE PAINT?
Haze Paint is a graded system of shadow shading or countershading with thicker coats of Haze Paint in shadow areas, to produce lighter colors. First, the entire aircraft was painted black. Then a light coat of Haze Paint was sprayed over the upper surfaces resulting in a very dark bluish color. A heavy spray of Haze Paint was applied to the under surfaces, particularly in shadowed areas. This heavy coat resulted in a graded finish that ranged from light blue to nearly white. Sides of the booms, fuselage and vertical stabilizers/rudders were mottled in a medium coat. Since Haze Paint was not a solid color camouflage scheme, and no equipment existed to control the precise application of the graded layers of paint...it fell to the "artistic" judgement of the aircraft painter. This resulted in many variations in the thickness of Haze Paint applied to different aircraft and as such all had differing reflectance. With only a loose standard to follow for application of Haze Paint to aircraft, many of the early airframes completed were unacceptable to AAF inspectors.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1311355237/P-38+unit+and+decal+help...

I think this maybe the follow on, Synthetic Haze Paint

P-38-F-5B-Photorecon-Lightning-1S.jpg

also

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234964161-revell-p-38-lm-to-f-5-recon-lightning/

If the images cause thread clutter let me know and I'll edit them.

hope of interest

T

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you Google Images for What If Concorde you can see a couple military versions.

Thanks Philp I'd not thought to do that. Will have a look to see what inspiration I can find.

i Col

A suggestion, as this is a what-if, perhaps a colour back story as well.

A reminder, in WW2 . The high altitude scheme as medium Sea Grey over PRU Blue, though for the very high altitude flying, the Mosquito XV used 'Deep Sky' which is a rich mid blue.

...

The Mosquito XV got up 43,000 ft, but At the height Concorde cruised at, apparently the sky above is purple.

I tried to find out more..

http://www.answersandquestions.net/astronomy/what-color-is-the-stratosphere.htm

The SR-71 was mentioned, IIRC they had to develop special paint for the markings, so perhaps a high altitude recon Concorde would be a dark blue, or purple-blue.

Would make for a striking model.

you mentioned this

given the comments about the stratosphere, perhaps not. But, give it a British twist, and you can have back story on the development of 'Strato Blue'

one other, less British idea, is Haze Paint, but maybe be of interest.

http://www.34thprs.org/html/aircraft/haze.html

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1311355237/P-38+unit+and+decal+help...

I think this maybe the follow on, Synthetic Haze Paint

...

also

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234964161-revell-p-38-lm-to-f-5-recon-lightning/

If the images cause thread clutter let me know and I'll edit them.

hope of interest

T

Once again you have increased my knowledge of a subject Troy. Both examples are interesting and your point about the change of light conditions at high altitude is something I'd not considered - particularly in reference to the SR-71 and U-2. While the subject of airframe cooling is still an issue it clearly wasn't a problem for those two black painted machines so opens that option. Then again I do love PRU Blue and think the Mosquito finished in the blue and grey is one of the nicest schemes any aircraft was ever painted. Hmmm options...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Philp I'd not thought to do that. Will have a look to see what inspiration I can find.

Once again you have increased my knowledge of a subject Troy. Both examples are interesting and your point about the change of light conditions at high altitude is something I'd not considered - particularly in reference to the SR-71 and U-2. While the subject of airframe cooling is still an issue it clearly wasn't a problem for those two black painted machines so opens that option. Then again I do love PRU Blue and think the Mosquito finished in the blue and grey is one of the nicest schemes any aircraft was ever painted. Hmmm options...

Thank you Col.

No experts, just adding a few bits of detail which may help.

Regarding the SR-71, somewhere the brain knew the paint was special. a quick google of 'SR-71 Blackbird paint' gets this

http://www.aero.com/museums/us_space_and_rocket/wmuusr04.htm

The Blackbird is painted with a black paint that consists of a pigmentation containing minute iron balls. These dissipate electro-magnetically-generated energy and effectively lower the chances of the plane being picked up by radar. The special black finish also wards off heat caused by high speeds and actually radiates significantly more friction-generated heat than it absorbs at cruising speeds of Mach 3

The air being so thin in the stratosphere that heating is caused by friction with what air there is, and it does not carry away the heat produced.

One of the more surreal things I have seen in some documentary is that the SR-71's outside of the fuel tanks are part of the external skin, and don't seal very well,, as they expand so much when heated up in flight, , so on the ground Kerosene dribbles out the bottom of the plane ...it's not very flammable though

The fuel is unique in that it has a high kerosene base and has to be ignited by a catalyst, tetraethyl borane.

also

http://www.sr-71.org/blackbird/sr-71/

The airframe of the SR-71 is very unique. To withstand the friction-generated heat at Mach 3+, over 90 percent of the airframe is made of titanium composite. Also to withstand heat, the main gear tires have been impregnated with aluminum and are filled with nitrogen.

In order for the SR-71 to fly the worldwide missions, it has a special fleet of modified KC-135Q tankers for refueling. SR-71s run on JP-7 fuel, that fills the six large tanks in the fuselage. The component parts of the Blackbird fit very loosely together to allow for expansion at high temperatures. At rest on the ground, fuel leaks out constantly, since the tanks in the fuselage and wings only seal at operating temperatures. There is little danger of fire since the JP-7 fuel is very stable with an extremely high flash point.

Sorry, off topic for the Concorde, but perhaps of interest anyway.

There is an interesting chapter on Concorde in this book, I got a copy really cheap, worth getting if you find one, or have a flick and see if it amuses

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Backroom-Boys-Secret-Return-British/dp/0571214975

This is where I found out about the sky at 60,000 ft appearing purple BTW.

cheers

T

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that Concorde was painted white for the same reason that the SR71 was painted black - to aid cooling of the airframe.

Graham

I'm sure there was a Pepsi liveried version? That was blue but the wings were still white because of heat?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...