A Flight of Fanciful Fairey Fireflies: FR.1 & TT.4

[Fritag]

Let me think; you are 25, and a newly-minted Service pilot with wings on your sleeve / chest (delete, depending on which colour blue. You have a choice:

2 years in Ark Royal, which will involve lots of flying in marginal weather in the middle of nowhere in the North Atlantic... but also trips to Australia, the Caribbean, Med & Eastern U.S.

Or 2 years in, say Marham, which would involve lots of flying in marginal weather over the North Sea... but also Saturday afternoon trips to Fakenham & King's Lynn.

It's a toughie, isn't it?

Hmm - lets see. So the choice as I understand it is:

2 years of flying over the sea with visits to nice exotic places and a lot of time spent living on a boat......

Or 2 years in Norfolk: - with lots of flying at 250' and a fair amount at 100' through the Scottish and Welsh Hills; plus trips away to the USA and Canada to fly at 100' over the Nevada desert and Alberta forests; plus long weekends away to Europe, the Mediterranean and ocassionally further afield to places like Jordan; plus throw in the odd bit of air combat training dogfighting with F4's, F3's and (admittedly a little one sidedly) F15s and F16s; plus (well you get the drift).......

Oh and then back home for a cuddle from the wife and a trip to the pub.

I do agree; it's a toughie isn't it?

Apologies Bill - such a terrific build doesn't need my thread drift! Plus I've belatedly realised that the thread author has Navy sympathies (I'm sharp like that....) and this is after all a build of a Navy aircraft.....

Edited August 29, 2015 by Fritag

[NAVY870]

Hmm - lets see. So the choice as I understand it is:

2 years of flying over the sea with visits to nice exotic places and a lot of time spent living on a boat......

Or 2 years in Norfolk: - with lots of flying at 250' and a fair amount at 100' through the Scottish and Welsh Hills; plus trips away to the USA and Canada to fly at 100' over the Nevada desert and Alberta forests; plus long weekends away to Europe, the Mediterranean and ocassionally further afield to places like Jordan; plus throw in the odd bit of air combat training dogfighting with F4's, F3's and (admittedly a little one sidedly) F15s and F16s; plus (well you get the drift).......

Oh and then back home for a cuddle from the wife and a trip to the pub.

I do agree; it's a toughie isn't it?

Apologies Bill - such a terrific build doesn't need my thread drift! Plus I've belatedly realised that the thread author has Navy sympathies (I'm sharp like that....) and this is after all a build of a Navy aircraft.....

All this means is we salty sea dogs are ok to go out into the big scary world and not have to stay around home so mum can dress us each day

FLY NAVY.

Edited August 29, 2015 by NAVY870

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

... and then back home for a cuddle from the wife...

That was why I started by saying "You're 25..." (Which was how old I was when I went front line - many of my friends were 3 or 4 years younger). None of us were married at that stage. As soon as we started getting married, then the attractions of going away for months at a time waned very rapidly indeed!

Anyway, all this is banter - the reality is that the two services have way more in common than the propaganda would have you think; the FAA & the RAF are very different... but only in ways that actually don't matter in the slightest. Taking the p*ss out of Cr*bs is deeply ingrained in all WAFUs, and vice versa. Whenever we actually worked together, there was nothing but mutual respect.

After all, I spent my whole Naval career post-training with one RN button and one RAF on my mess kit, because we had a joint RN/RAF course at Linton / Topcliffe.

But Navy aircraft are way cooler. That's just a fact!

[besides, if you have just spent 2 years training as an anti-submarine helicopter pilot, it's a bit late to turn round and say you don't want to fly over the sea!]

Edited August 30, 2015 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[NAVY870]

Anyway, all this is banter - the reality is that the two services have way more in common than the propaganda would have you think; the FAA & the RAF are very different... but only in ways that actually don't matter in the slightest. Taking the p*ss out of Cr*bs is deeply ingrained in all WAFUs, and vice versa.

Indeed the Almighty had something to say on that subject

Edited August 30, 2015 by NAVY870

[geedubelyer]

There you go you see. Nearly missed this thread.

Since my interest in the subject matter is less than some others (I know, I know ) I've driven by this thread a number of times without stopping by, something I shall remedy immeadiately.

This should be a lesson to me though,......always have a look at all threads 'cos if you don't, you might just be missing some superb modelling (and banter).

Needless to say I shall be back regularly and often now that I've discovered this gem of a topic.

Keep at it Bill, nice job so far.

[rob85]

Hi bill, I managed to miss this starting. Two great subjects and some of your usual top notch work on the CP.

What great banter from RAF and FAA! Everyone loves a bit of banter and you had me chuckling hard... I have to say there is something very cool about navy AC's.... Must be the grey, its bang on trend in most designer homes (however inky blues are supposed to be the next big thing)... However the RAF is also ace! A fair draw. All I know is that given my time again I would have given a leg or two to have the opportunity to be a pilot...Anywhere! You are a lucky bunch

Join.... (Add your force)... See the world

Rob

P.s. hope your doing well bill and you enjoyed your trip to the cabin

Edited August 30, 2015 by rob85

[Procopius]

Join.... (Add your force)... See the world

Unless it's the US Coast Guard.

Did you know there's a height requirement to enlist in the Coast Guard? You have to be at least six feet tall, so if the ship sinks you can wade back to shore.

[Navy Bird]

On 8/29/2015 at 10:27, Fritag said:

Apologies Bill - such a terrific build doesn't need my thread drift! Plus I've belatedly realised that the thread author has Navy sympathies (I'm sharp like that....) and this is after all a build of a Navy aircraft.....

 

No apologies - I've loved the banter and good-natured ribs at each others favourite force. Thread drifts like this one keep the modelling camaraderie high, and along the way a dolt like myself might actually learn something! Plus, it's a good way to get the post count high in spite of the fact that I haven't done much actual building yet!

 

On 8/30/2015 at 07:38, geedubelyer said:

There you go you see. Nearly missed this thread.

Since my interest in the subject matter is less than some others (I know, I know ) I've driven by this thread a number of times without stopping by, something I shall remedy immeadiately.

This should be a lesson to me though,......always have a look at all threads 'cos if you don't, you might just be missing some superb modelling (and banter).

Needless to say I shall be back regularly and often now that I've discovered this gem of a topic.

 

Thanks, geedubelyer. I'm glad you're here! But we really must do something about your lack of interest in the subject matter - what can we do, guys (and gal)?

 

I mean, what can be more exciting than a Firefly? A Sea Vixen? Well, sure, OK, I'll give you that. A Scimitar? Of course, that goes without saying. The roads, sanitation, education, irrigation, medicine, public health, fresh water, wine...come on - shut up! What can really be more exciting than a Firefly?*

 

* Apologies to Brian

On 8/30/2015 at 14:18, rob85 said:

Hi bill, I managed to miss this starting. Two great subjects and some of your usual top notch work on the CP.

What great banter from RAF and FAA! Everyone loves a bit of banter and you had me chuckling hard... I have to say there is something very cool about navy AC's.... Must be the grey, its bang on trend in most designer homes (however inky blues are supposed to be the next big thing)... However the RAF is also ace! A fair draw. All I know is that given my time again I would have given a leg or two to have the opportunity to be a pilot...Anywhere! You are a lucky bunch

Join.... (Add your force)... See the world

Rob

P.s. hope your doing well bill and you enjoyed your trip to the cabin

 

Thanks Rob! It's good to hear that EDSG is now a designer colour. Can Sky be far behind?

 

I'm doing much better (although I have another chemotherapy treatment coming up soon). Spending a week in the woods at the cabin is VERY refreshing, and gets your mind off of just about everything. But I wouldn't want to live there year round - I kind of like central plumbing if you know what I mean!

 

OK, now back to the models. I've been spending most of my time removing flash from parts, cleaning up sprue attachment points, and otherwise test-fitting everything in case I find any problems (no big ones yet). I find this part of a short run build to be essential. I also separated the FR.1 cockpit into two modules (did I say that already?) and have assembled the TT.4 cockpit. (And cut it in half too!)

 

Paul Bradley's book finally arrived and I can say it is EXCELLENT! Everything the modeller needs in a book on the Firefly. Paul built four versions of the Special Hobby Firefly kits (FR.1, T.2, FR.5, and a second FR.5 in that inglorious scale), and his build reviews will be most helpful indeed. He, along with many other reviewers on the net, talk about the endless grinding and sanding necessary to remove the pour blocks from the main wheel wells. And they're right - there is a lot of resin to remove. I took the lazy way out - I sawed it off. Here is one wheel well with the pour block intact, and one with it removed:

 

 

You can see that there is a obvious delineation between the wheel and the pour block. Using the sawing technique I described previously, it was easy to slice the pour block right off.

 

 

After finishing both wheel wells, I taped them in position and then test fit the upper and lower wings together. There was no interference. Woo hoo! But, the modelling demons interjected, I bet the bottom of the cockpit will hit them! Ah yes, hadn't thought about that. And the modelling demons were right, if the front cockpit floor does not have its pour block removed (which I hadn't done in any of the photos shown previously) there will be an issue. But, it's pretty easy to remove it with a sanding stick, and there you have it. Everything looks good at this point. We'll see what happens when the glue hits the seam.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. PC, I'm going to tell my neighbour what you said about the USCG. His daddy is in the CG, and he's bigger than you!

[Learstang]

Good idea about the pouring blocks on the wheel wells, Bill! I was wondering how best to tackle that as that was probably going to be my next project on my T.1/2. Cutting it is. The razor saw works a treat but it is a bit intimidating to someone as clumsy as I am. I've a few scars on my hands from that b****y instrument. Maybe I ought to wear chain mail gloves whilst using it. Hmmm, that might just work...

Regards,

Jason

P.S. You forgot about the aqueducts.

P.P.S. Too right about the Sea Vixen and Scimitar - what's not to love? And of course the Firefly - to be uninterested in the Firefly? - not to be allowed.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Learstang

[Procopius]

PS. PC, I'm going to tell my neighbour what you said about the USCG. His daddy is in the CG, and he's bigger than you!

I'm on the horns of a dilemma: my knee's still not good enough to run away on, and I'm not yet fat enough to lie on my side and roll off at high speed.

[Brandy]

Just found this thread and loved reading through it. I'm not sure where I'd fit in here, having flown (non-military) in the US, Caribbean and Guyana, but being a Brit...I would love to have had a decent "portable runway" in Guyana, but the jungle would make a ship pretty useless...but in place of St Bart's might work nicely, although that would have taken all the fun out of it.....hmmm... The owner of the flight school I trained at flew F4U's in Korea...(talk about awkward aircraft to land on a deck.....) and it took the Brits to show them it could be done!

Anyway, I digress, great work on these 2 gorgeous aircraft! I'll be following from here on.....

Ian

ps Procopius - don't worry, the USCG only picks people up after the others have hit them, they don't chase!

[Martian]

A good heads up on the pouring blocks Bill, I shall have to check my 1/48 Special Hobby Fireflies to see if they are afflicted by the same fit problem with the cockpit floor.

Martin

[NAVY870]

A good heads up on the pouring blocks Bill, I shall have to check my 1/48 Special Hobby Fireflies to see if they are afflicted by the same fit problem with the cockpit floor.

Martin

Sadly the tight gits didnt bother to include a resin cockpit in the quarter scale kits.

It would have been a massive improvement on whats been supplied.

[Navy Bird]

Yes, mates, I'm still alive! I've just been crazy busy doing all that stuff you do after you retire. I don't know how I ever found the time to go to work. Anyway, how about some more Firefly?

 

I mentioned earlier that I cut the FR.1 cockpit in half, here is a photo of what I meant in case it wasn't clear:

 

 

Now they're clear of each other so they can nestle down and align with the fuselage openings. (Sneak preview: I've test fit this, and there are some issues. Mostly the cockpit "modules" are too narrow, especially the forward pit. I think I can take care of this by blending the flat sills on the pit with the same on the fuselage sides.)

 

To prepare for that, and the eventual closing of the FR.1 fuselage halves, there are some additional resin pieces to add. From the front, in order, the radiator (this resin piece also incorporates the bottom third of the forward fuselage section that is immediately behind the spinner), the radiator exit (I think that's what it is, but I'm not sure as SH doesn't identify it other than calling it "P18." Can you hear a pilot radioing in "Mayday, mayday, I've been hit in the P18!"), the exhausts, and the tailwheel well.

 

 

I'm not sure why SH made some of these pieces from resin, as they've not taken advantage of that medium to add extra detail. For example, the tailwheel well could just as easily been injected.

 

The exhaust openings in the FR.1 fuselage needed to be enlarged by 1-2mm in width in order for the resin pieces to sit properly. This was easily done with a new #11 blade. Interestingly enough, this was not necessary on the TT.4 fuselage. I think SH acknowledged the error when they tooled the new fuselage halves for the TT and made the openings the correct width.

 

I'm just finishing up the TT cockpits, and I'll have photos of those (hint: everything is black) along with the fuselage sides. I need to come up with a plan to add the supercharger air intake below the nose - I could cut it open or paint it on...still thinking about what's the best thing to do here.

 

One thing I like to do before any fuselage gets closed is to test fit the clear canopy pieces. Especially on these two kits, as I've read some horror stories on-line. The common complaint is that the rear canopy is too wide, and therefore larger than the fuselage opening. Some modellers have attempted to "bend" the canopy together to make it narrower, and several have cracked the canopy in the process. Yikes! My preference is to add shims to make the fuselage opening larger, and avoid having to do anything whatsoever to the clear pieces.

 

First, I verified that the rear canopy is indeed wider than the FR.1 fuselage opening. And so is the front canopy - but not by as much. To cope with this, I'll use two shims with one thicker than the other. Here is what I did (the shims are white):

 

 

The forward shim is 0.020" thick, the rear shim is 0.030" thick. Note that the rear shim does not extend all the way to the vertical tail. This way I can get a gradual closing of the fuselage, and the gap can be filled with putty. Taping everything together allows me to test fit the canopies which now match the fuselage much better:

 

 

And while we're at it - it looks a bit like a Firefly. Nice! At this stage, the fit of the wings can be checked too, and it looks pretty good.

 

There is a somewhat nasty seam to deal with on the inside of the radiator intake, but I don't think it's a major issue. Question for the Firefly experts: SH have what looks like a round eye-loop forward of the first exhaust pipe. What is that? It's hard to see in any photos.

 

Well, that's enough poking at the keyboard for now - back to the plastic!

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. OK, OK, you know the next question - should I fold the wings on one of these beasties? Wait, never mind I know your answer. Of course you want me to fold the wings on one of these beasties. I won't commit to this yet, because for the life of me I don't understand how it was done. When I look at the photos, it seems to my mechanically-challenged mind that the hinge "pin" is in a different position folded vs. deployed. Steve, maybe you could help me understand that mechanism better. Thanks!

[Ascoteer]

Thread drift Alert!

But Navy aircraft are way cooler. That's just a fact!

RIGHT!

Let's see now....

Blackburn Skua

Blackburn Roc

Fairey Fulmar

Fairey Barracuda (oh dear gods)

Blackburn Firebrand

Westland Wyvern

Supermarine Attacker

Fairey Gannet

Supermarine Scimitar

I could go on....

I'll give you Hawker Sea Fury (even if it is only a 'hooked' Tempest II), Hawker Sea Hawk (but the Hunter was better) and Backburn Buccaneer.

Not really a great track record Crisp.

Sorry Bill!

[Martian]

Thread drift Alert!

RIGHT!

Let's see now....

Blackburn Skua

Blackburn Roc

Fairey Fulmar

Fairey Barracuda (oh dear gods)

Blackburn Firebrand

Westland Wyvern

Supermarine Attacker

Fairey Gannet

Supermarine Scimitar

I could go on....

I'll give you Hawker Sea Fury (even if it is only a 'hooked' Tempest II), Hawker Sea Hawk (but the Hunter was better) and Backburn Buccaneer.

Not really a great track record Crisp.

Sorry Bill!

Should have gone to Spec Savers: Debs not Crisp that is!

Great looking cockpits Bill, I have not the slightest doubt that you will overcome any fit issues with the kit.

Martin

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

And the Sea Vixen (knocks the cr*p out of that Javelin thing); the Sopwith Triplane; the Pup; the Firefly (especially the elegant nose of the Mk 4 onwards); the Swordfish (obsolete in 1939, yet still being built and doing invaluable work 6 years later when there were front line jets...)... and that's before we cross the pond and factor in F4 (yes, I know the RAF & USAF eventually flew it, but it was a Naval jet originally), the F14...

Besides, I'll see your Scimtar and call you with the Swift - a piece of junk so egregious that it took 6 marks before anyone managed to do anything useful with it!

[giemme]

Should you fold the wings? Yes please, we'd like to see that

Great job with the pits and the shim thing to align with canopies

Ciao

[Navy Bird]

On 9/6/2015 at 18:53, giemme said:

Should you fold the wings? Yes please, we'd like to see that

 

I'm liking the idea more myself. I see that Airwaves have a PE set for the Firefly Mk.4 folding wings - it's essentially some PE parts to represent the internal cross section of the wings at the fold lines, along with some other little grubbins. It's made for the Airfix kit, but it would probably be useful with the SH kit as well. I looked at its PDF instructions online at Hannants, and it doesn't give you any idea how to model the hinge, however.

 

I could really use a nice drawing of the wing fold mechanism from, oh, I don't know, maybe the Mk.4/5 maintenance manual or something like that.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[hacker]

I will see what l have Bill

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Ooh, yes please; the Firefly wing fold is complex even by Fairey standards. I've never seen any decent reference material.

[NAVY870]

Gentlemen Gentlemen

Have I not rubbed it in frequently and without remorse that I have a unsullied and superb example of

Fairey's finest in my care?

If wing fold details is what you seek then wing fold details you shall have.

Do you prefer happy snap or schematics from the manual?

[Fritag]

PS. OK, OK, you know the next question - should I fold the wings on one of these beasties? Wait, never mind I know your answer. Of course you want me to fold the wings on one of these beasties.

Notwithstanding that it's a question that never needed asking.

And notwithstanding it's a question that you already knew the answer to.

And notwithstanding that it's question that others have already answered.

I will answer it.

YES

[hacker]

Gentlemen Gentlemen

Have I not rubbed it in frequently and without remorse that I have a unsullied and superb example of

Fairey's finest in my care?

If wing fold details is what you seek then wing fold details you shall have.

Do you prefer happy snap or schematics from the manual?

Bill l have the in action book and the warpaint one both in pdf if you need it. As for the above won't mind a set of schematics from the manual if l am so bold to ask

[Procopius]

Maybe only fold one set of wings?