Fieseler 167 - two builds. The Fi167F fantasy and the Fi167 reality

[Ed Russell]

The Fieseler 167 was the built to a RLM specification for a carrier-based torpedo bomber to operate from Germany's first aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin They surpassed all specification requirements twice over and were highly successful. Like the Storch, they had slow-speed capabilities; being able to land almost vertically on a moving aircraft carrier into the wind. After building Graf Zeppelin was resumed the Ju 87 took over the bomber duties, and torpedo bombers were no longer seen to be needed. The Fi 167 were employed on camouflage trials, coastal patrol and other duties and then returned to Germany in the summer of 1943. After that they were sold to Croatia for anti-partisan patrols.

The Fi167 was Pavla’s first essay into injection kits and is not too bad to build if you take it slowly.

I was asked to build one for for one of John Baxter’s alternate history series

http://www.aviationb...78BB5FE151.html

with the idea it might be used on small Vichy French aircraft carriers hunting Allied submarines which were interdicting the Axis maritime trade. That’s the best of my recollection - John may come along and correct this!

So, we needed depth charges, radar, radar operator, new build serials and a suitable colour scheme for the Fi167 F for Francais.........

Here’s the result........



















Being somewhat ambivalent about What-Ifs one of my “rules” for building them is to do a real one at the same time. The Croatian ones looked interesting. As photos of them are rare and indistinct, there are some imaginative ideas of what they might have looked like. Given their history anything is possible but to me the existing photos looked like nothing so much as their original RLM 72/73/65 colour scheme so that’s what I went for.

[Martian]

Nice builds and thank you for reminding me that I have this one in my stash.

Martin

[MikeW]

Interesting back story, and really impressive rigging!

Cheers,

Mike

[Mottlemaster]

Don't get to see many of these . Thanks for posting.

[JWM]

Nice builds indeed! - since I am not a big admirer of "what ifs" I like Croatian more, sorry for saying this - this is my problem The German-French one is very nice build as well.

May I made some related comment? Besides Germans and Croatia (10 or 11 used) there was one more user of this kind of machine - Yugoslav partisans, namely. Perhaps the story is know, but I hope it is worth of talking since it seems to be involved in interesting event. At least one of Croatian Fi-167 flu to Yugoslavian partizans and then was used by them. Then she was shot down by mistake ("friendly fire") - by four SAAF Mustangs, killing General Cetkovic, who was on board. Cetkovic was a partisan leader almost as fameous as Tito. The whole story in English is here: http://www.jet-manga.hr/012station/lipovscak.html

EDIT I have found that link is not working, so if it happen on other sites here is this text

Together with the existence of already mentioned Air Squadron of the 5th Corps, defections from the NDH Air Force to the NOVJ were continued. Thus, the VŠ Liaison Squadron very soon disposed of an exotic Fieseler Fi 167A-0 (reg. 4807) which had been constructed as a torpedo-carrier for German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" that was never finished. It was flown by bojnik Romeo Adum and Matija Petrović on September 25, 1944, who had taken off from Zagreb for the mission of delivering material to Bosanska Gradiška and descended in the Topuskosurrounding, where the Croatian GŠ was based and then they defected to Vis. The aircraft was mostly used for training until October 17, when it took off for the mission of post transporting for the 8^th Dalmatian Corp Headquarters with pilot Miljenko Lipovšćak and navigator Ivan Konte as well as radio operator-machine-gunner Svetislav Najdanović. They landed near the Tičevo village near the Šator mountain inBiH, where they handed over the post and embarked the 8^th Dalmatian Corp Commander, general-major Vlado Ćetković who was to be transported to the VŠ on Vis. After dropping off a signal tube with the post for the NOVJ 20^th Corp near the Vrdovo village on the Dinaramountain, they were attacked by four allied Mustang fighters from the R.A.F. South-African Squadron^[2] and shot down. Pilot Lipovšćaksuccessfully made a forced landing in the burning aircraft, so the crew got only slight injuries, but general Ćetković got killed due to several hits from Mustang heavy 12.7mm machine-guns. Although the R.A.F. Command sent the official apology, some JA structures afterwards tried to impose that the aircraft was purposely shot down because general Ćetković allegedly had opposed the planned allied invasion in Dalmatia. At that time, the 8^th Dalmatian Corp that was under his command numbered 26 667 people and was the largest NOVJ Corp.

Back to my comments -

Some photos including shot down partizans Fi 167 ("white 9") but with text in Czech (?) are here: http://www.paluba.info/smf/index.php?topic=19724.15

Lift Here, a Serbian company, was producing decals for them

https://lifthereserbia.wordpress.com/2010/06/27/719-lh-trophies-yugoslav-partisan-aircraft-part-3-in-172/

I have a small doubt about the painting scheme while compared to photo - on photo another (fadded) big red star is seen on background of fin, and it is not present in profile given with decals..

I will do this machine one day, I hope it will be at least close to yours nice builds

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

Edited August 6, 2015 by JWM

[Knight_Flyer]

Quite an unusual looking plane. You can almost see some resemblance to the Stuka particular with the slightly bent lower wing. I like the first camo scheme and looks quite good on the model.

[stevehnz]

Nice builds Ed, I'm another with this kit lurking in their stash, it comforting to see how well it builds up. To my eye this is one of those ugly enough to be interesting aircraft.

Steve.

[Ed Russell]

Nice builds! - since I am not a big fan of what ifs I like Croatian more, sorry for saying this:)

Besides Germans and Croatia (10 or 11 used) there was one more user of this kind of machine. Perhaps the story is know, but I hope it is worth of talking since it seems to be interesting. At least one of Croatian Fi-167 flu to Yugoslavian partizans and then was used by them. Then she was shot down by mistake ("friendly fire") - by four SAAF Mustangs, killing General Cetkovic, who was on board. The whole story in English is here: http://www.jet-manga.hr/012station/lipovscak.html

For my part I prefer the real ones also. I have seen those markings. Pavla actually released them as an 'aftermarket' product. I was given some magazine articles and and pictures by friends in Prague for the build.

Amongst the contenders for the last biplane kill of WW2, along with Cyprich's B.534 (too early) and the Luftwaffe CR.42AS (insufficient and confusing documentation) is a Croatian Fi-167 rear-gunner who shot down a Mustang (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=123207)

Maybe it was this one?

[spiton]

Very interesting. My favoutite plane, and alternative history !! I like it !

This is really very interesting plane with fantastics pilot properties. lot of time ago I bild his model too :

Edited August 5, 2015 by spiton

[JWM]

Hi Ed, thank you, I have not heard about the Pavla aftermaket for Fi-167. Is it exctly the same as Lift Here or it has this faded and not proper angled red star on fin?

Interesting also are stories about last victories of biplanes...

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

[Ed Russell]

had not heard about the Pavla aftermaket for Fi-167. Is it exctly the same as Lift Here

I would say it's different but I don't have either.

I used Croat markings from an Aviation Usk sheet and printed the serials. I sort of followed the Pavla paint instructions but the blotches were invisible to me on any picture so I left them out. Likewise the 'squares' were actually shields.

x

[JWM]

Thank you Ed, - however no one of them is this partizan "white nine" which is in "Lift Here decals". Regarding Croatian colours - in Wing Palette there are poifiles of 4806 which is a single dark green or olive top whereas 4808 is all mottled. This 4806 was shot down in early 1945. There must be some photos of this exacly machine which results in profiles, so your painting scheme is correct - with a single colour on top.

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

[Reini78]

well, that´s a rare sight

sweet work on both models!

[Les Moore]

Nice builds. If I can find a site to help me post pics, I will post my Form-A-Plane vac Fiesler 167 when its finished.

 

[Ed Russell]

On 10/3/2019 at 2:28 PM, Les Moore said:

If I can find a site to help me post pics, I will post my Form-A-Plane vac Fiesler 167 when its finished.

I will be very interested to see it. I use Flickr for pictures but if you look in the FAQ section of this site

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/15-faqs/

you will find information and advice  on many picture posting sites.

[IPMS19]

-I like your Fi 167 what-if, the idea is interesting. To be closer of the "Great History" but remaining in your uchrony, it should have been painted with Vichy colors, ie red and yellow stripped fin, rudder and stabs together with engine cowling, white circled French aeronavale roundels at all posts. As it is, keeping with your what-if concept , your Fi- 167 with its black crosses and kennzeichen is more like a machine being embarked aboard a Kriegsmarine corsair raider as it was in a similar case in the real life, with an Arado 196 using its French marking as some sort of deceptive measure...

- Great building....

Edited September 6, 2020 by Mike
Removing large photo-quote.

[Ed Russell]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:05 PM, IPMS19 said:

-I like your Fi 167 what-if, the idea is interesting. To be closer of the "Great History" but remaining in your uchrony, it should have been painted with Vichy colors, ie red and yellow stripped fin, rudder and stabs together with engine cowling, white circled French aeronavale roundels at all posts. As it is, keeping with your what-if concept , your Fi- 167 with its black crosses and kennzeichen is more like a machine being embarked aboard a Kriegsmarine corsair raider as it was in a similar case in the real life, with an Arado 196 using its French marking as some sort of deceptive measure...

- Great building....

 

Thanks for your comments and praise.

1. May I first suggest you save Britmodeller a  bit of bandwidth by removing my pictures from your quote. Just go to EDIT, click on picture and hit DELETE for each one.

2. There are many Alternate Histories or Luft'46 scenarios. I think John Baxter's version postulates that the Kreigsmarine ends up with  30+ aircraft carriers by 1949 (or whenever). There is a complete takeover of Vichy France by the Third Reich, along with all of Europe including European Russia. Therefore there is essentially no Vichy  air force to have Vichy markings.

 

If you put some terms like "John Baxter" "Luft 46" and "Tragerflotten" into your search engine you will get more information - I hope!

It certainly will bring up a hilarious discussion on a WW2 history board where several of the contributors seem to not understand the concept of "What-ifs" and argue earnestly about the number of carriers (able to dance on the head of a pin).