Nigel Bunker Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Much as I would like a Tamiya 32 scale F-4J I can't afford one. So I came up with the idea of converting a Revell kit as I was able to buy one from Wonderland Models for £18.49 (not much more than an Aifix Lightning). As I see it, the changes are as follows: 1. Chop off the nose and fit the larger Radome (available and purchased from DJ Parkins for £7.20). 2. Change the cockpit to USN type 3. Fit the catapault hook recesses (less the hooks for F-4J(UK) 4. Change the engine fronts as I believe the bullets were smaller on USN F-4s. 5. Modify the main wheels to USN types instead of the USAF ones that were fitted to F-4Fs. 6. Remove the reinforcing plates from the tailplanes and add leading edge slats to them 7. Add the fairing to the top rear of the tailplane (RWR?) 8. Modify the outer wing panels to be unslotted - plastic card & filler. 9. Add the empty RWR units to the top edge of the intakes. 10. Modify the AIM-9 rails to the shorter length used on RAF F-4s unlike the lengthened ones on Luftwaffe F-4s. 11. Modify the AIM-120s to Aim-7s and the AIM 9s to AIM-9L 12. Make new nosewheel doors from plastic card. 13. make & fit aerials as required. 14. Use the US H-7 ejection seats included in the kit (rather than the Luftwaffe GH-7A seats also in the kit) and add the various straps and pipes missing using wine bottle foil and wire. 15. Make & fit new air intakes just behind nose. 16: Fill refuelling receptacle on spine and scribe new door outline starboard side under rear cockpit. 17. Add strap reinforcement on u/s wings and outer wings. 18. Hump shaped bulge on top of wings above u/c legs. I think that's the lot. No resin stuff apart from the nose cone to keep costs down. I hope to do all the work with plastic card, Milliput & filler and as I'm not prepared to pay nearly £25.00 for decals these will be from my spares box or printed by me. Now is there anything I have missed? Regfards Nigel Edited August 3, 2015 by Nigel Bunker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Sounds about right. I have an early Revell RF-4E half converted into a D, and a J that is about to be built as an RAF 'J'. My Tamiya J as awaiting the S&M conversion. That still gives me an RF-4F and a DJP radome for a future creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaggy Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) If in 7. you mean the Big Rectangular Fairing, like the FGR2, then NO! If you mean the smaller, bullet fairing on the trailing edge, then yes...And in 6. RAF jets had a different form of stab reinforcment to the USAF, etc, which were present on the F-4J(UK)'s.And then there is the underwing Strap reinforcement too and outer wing reinforcements...D Edited August 3, 2015 by Zaggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Bunker Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Thanks Zaggy - I did mean the bullet fairing. And I should add : 16: Fill refuelling receptacle on spine and scribe new door outline starboard side under rear cockpit. 17. Add strap reinforcement on u/s wings and outer wings The list gets longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Buy a Tamiya F-4J and save yourself a huge amount of work. I recently bought one from Jadlamracing models in Somerset for £69 including postage, and there are often deals like that on eBay from reputable traders. You could raise some of the cost by asset-stripping the F-4F and selling off portions : decals for a net tenner, go-fast F-15 c/l tank and rear pivot fitting for a fiver, ALQ-119 and ALE-38 countermeasures pods for a net 2-3 quid, still leaving you with most of an F-4F and recovering what you've spent. There is a "junk yard" market for stuff not included in the Tamiya kits, and for which some resin is very expensive. I've not heard good things about the Flightpath radome, but maybe that was a one-off and most are fine. I have a Masters F-4D radome which is a bit touch-and-go. The only really good ones I've seen which didn't require finishing work were the hollow Cutting a Edge versions. HTH rather than hinders Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Bunker Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Thanks for the advice Tony but I'll stick to my original plan. Just got to finish my Tornado GR.4 then the Phantom is next onto the bench. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPFlightpath Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I've not heard good things about the Flightpath radome, but maybe that was a one-off and most are fine. Is this just another heresay job? Your sources??? Our master was made from measurements taken of an F-4J[uK] radome lying in the dunes at Pendine Sands testing establishment during an organised visit years ago - no cameras allowed. It has the interface ring and front end recess detail [which others do not] + the correct 'droop'. The moulding is hollow and the surface finish is ready to use + it has no large feeds to remove - unlike most resin on the market. It was the first part we made towards a UK F4 Conv. Set and then the Cutting Edge one appeared and we gave it up as a project. David Parkins, Flightpath www.djparkins.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 My comments were in good faith. I have neither the time nor energy to sift through the multitude of F-4 on-line builds on LSP etc where, as I recall, at least one individual had to rework the Flightpath radome to fit the Tamiya kit precisely. That's my accurate recollection. Starting with a Revell F-4F to create an F-4J is one heck of a challenge. Nigel's very brave ! The fuselage frames are different forward of the windshield requiring the modeller to fabricate a new nose barrel. Perhaps the radome will help in getting the nose barrel cross-section correct... http://tailspintopics.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/f-4-radome-redux.html Sadly, that does nothing to correct the Revell's poor canopy side profile, though modelling the subject with open hoods helps. It's a pity there isn't a correction set for that as the Revell can be made into quite a stunning model with a little bit of effort. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The Revell RF-4E will take the Revell J nosecone direct when the extended E nose section is deleted with the minimum of filler. I assume the F4-F will also, as they are based on the same airframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Geesh, I haven't seen the Revell 1/32 F-4J in the shops since maybe 1974, in the days before digital wrist watches. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPFlightpath Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 as I recall, at least one individual had to rework the Flightpath radome to fit the Tamiya kit precisely. Yes Indeed - there is a small amount of sanding required at the bottom of the kit nose at the nose/radome interface. That is because we made our radome accurate to the measurements taken. There would be little point in producing an innacurate replacement just 'to fit the Tamiya kit precisely'. It would kind of defeat the object!. That doesn't make it a bad casting but might make it an accurate one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaggy Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 This maybe of help to people here too --> http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=148643D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yes Indeed - there is a small amount of sanding required at the bottom of the kit nose at the nose/radome interface. That is because we made our radome accurate to the measurements taken. There would be little point in producing an innacurate replacement just 'to fit the Tamiya kit precisely'. It would kind of defeat the object!. That doesn't make it a bad casting but might make it an accurate one! If that's true it's a shame you stopped at the radome ! There exist panel line inaccuracies in the Tamiya ventral nose barrel area, and the air conditioning scoops are slightly too long, but otherwise it's considered very accurate. Hopefully the already announced S-and-M-Models Spey Toom conversion for the Tamiya Juliet will see production in the near future. I remain troubled by the idea of the J radome snugly fitting a partially sliced off E/F nose but I hope to be amazed. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Proof of the pudding, guys. WIP as you can see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Impressive ! A bit more work to the shape of the air con scoops and voila. I didn't realise the Revell nose was so conveniently inaccurate, or did that require a lot of filler ? I'm beginning to wonder if the Revell might make a good basis for an FG.1 or FGR.2 if that bl**** canopy side profile can be fixed. Less frightening hacking up a cheap kit. Just need some decent J79 jet cans and the lower wing torque box steel strap, for which G T Resin in South Carolina provide the solution: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=56789 http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=55808 HTH rather than hinders ***** Oh, and these Sierra Hotel items look handy... http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=57457 Tony Edited for extra link Edited August 3, 2015 by tony.t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 This help? http://nautilusmodels.com/32-701.htm Aries do nozzles Not much filler there. Revell designed the same fuselage for the E/F and the J. Simply a matter of the datum line for the nose swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I have the Nautilus strap which, frankly, is a bit anaemic. They do a nice wooden jig for the Tamiya F-4. The GT Resin strap is far better. The Aries and CE nozzles are under scale. If you read the link above you can see them side by side for comparison. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 $25 plus postage for the nozzles. Nice, but I only paid £1.65 (about $5) for the E kit new! (Over 40 years ago) and I got my J and F free. The Tamiya J was £64 so that's 4 x 1/32 F-4s for around $40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) The last time I made one of those Revell Phantom IIs was 1981, when a hard wing E was converted to a slatted F-4G Weasel. One was enough - for all eternity. I'm not particularly fond of the 1990s Revell Phantom IIs either. They goofed up the canopy profile. AM is indeed pricey, but you pay for what you get (most of the time, if you're very picky). Some modellers take pride in turning something out for a fiver using bits of yoghurt pot, leftover rattle can car paint and other stuff found in a skip. I most definitely prefer the easier route which relies of the skills of master builders turning out top end AM, and there's some striking stuff out there for the F-4J. Tony Edited August 3, 2015 by tony.t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPFlightpath Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If that's true it's a shame you stopped at the radome ! There exist panel line inaccuracies in the Tamiya ventral nose barrel area, and the air conditioning scoops are slightly too long, but otherwise it's considered very accurate. Hopefully the already announced S-and-M-Models Spey Toom conversion for the Tamiya Juliet will see production in the near future. I remain troubled by the idea of the J radome snugly fitting a partially sliced off E/F nose but I hope to be amazed. Tony As I explained it was really made for a UK F4 conversion which we abandoned when the Cutting Edge set came out. It was made around 1991 I think - before the Tamiya F-4J came out. As regards the fit to an F-4E that is down to Bentwaters but he seems to be making it work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If S-and-M-Models don't do the 1/32 F-4K/M conversion set please revisit the project for the Tamiya F-4J. The Cutting Edge set was very expensive at $500 + postage so, like many others, I passed it by - although it featured a lovely decal sheet. (BTW, I have some 1/32 Flightpath stuff - Hunter GA.11 set, RAF GPUs and nitrogen cart - and like the look of it a lot. Haven't tackled the ground equipment yet as I'm trying to find a very small soldering iron at a realistic price. I might resort to setting into place/shape with Formula 506 canopy glue or Gator Grip and then using thick CA to seal things firmly.) Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Bunker Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 I just thought I'd upload some pictures to show my idea went from the idea stage to the building stage. Elevators are clipped in for the photos, they'll be painted and glued as the last item. Sorry for the picture quality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It's working. I'm currently doing exactly this with a Revell J, and simultaneously updating an E into a D. The S&M conversion is on the back burner. I have another E which will go into Edwards colours and a Revell F which may go into an RF-4C, or maybe a C. 5 1/32 Phantoms take up a lot of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaggy Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Nigel - mate, I will be honest and say that I had my doubts (but kept them to myself - why spoil the fun? And I come up with so many hair-brained schemes myself), but I have to just chime in here and say that its looking proper awesome! And great work with the wing reinforcing strap and outer panel plates...Looking forward to seeing some colour on it soon - which jet/scheme you going to go with? US applied colour or one of the Resprays? (I ask as I have a 'US' personal favourite, which looks greeny-bluer than most, which I plan to do in 1/48... Though I've been distracted with a Pair of RAAF Projects - a FA-18F+ and EA-18G of late)Congrats on the progress so far mateDan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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