Dana Bell Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Two questions... There are many pix in print of B.Mk.IV day bombers with nose art -- Knave of Diamonds, The Joker, The Knave of Spades, Popeye, and Uncle Sam are just a few. Some of the aircraft are Series i, but most are Series ii like the new kits. Has anyone been able to match up the artwork with serials and squadron codes? And has anyone produced any decals? (I remember the playing card symbol on a 1/72nd scale sheet from te late '60s, but I don't believe it was associated with a particular aircraft. I might have to build a Mossie in RAF markings for a change! Cheers, Dana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The old FROG Mosquito B.IV kit came with markings for DZ548 GB-D, flown (IIRC) by Wg Cdr Wooldridge. Nose art is all 4 card suite symbols on a yellow diamond with a figure (Donald Duck?) in black next to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 According to a flight sim website, the following serial/code/nose art tie-ups are documented. DZ548 'GB-D', "Knave of Diamonds" DK337, 'GB-H', "Uncle Sam" DZ591 'GB-O', or DZ483, 'GB-R', "Knave of Spades" I'll need to check my references when I get home but this might constitute a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) The old FROG Mosquito B.IV kit came with markings for DZ548 GB-D, flown (IIRC) by Wg Cdr Wooldridge. Nose art is all 4 card suite symbols on a yellow diamond with a figure (Donald Duck?) in black next to it. Excelllent photo of the magnificently moustachioed Wg Cdr J De L Wooldridge, OC 105 Sq, with the noseart of his aircraft clearly visible behind him on p.94-5 of Chaz Bowyer's Mosquito Squadrons of the Royal Air Force (Ian Allen, 1984). Date June 1943. The "yellow diamond" is in fact 4 overlapping circles, each with a card symbol at the centre, the whole centred on the upper/lower paint demarcation line. The figure is a duck wearing a crown and holding up what looks like a gem or shining rock. Just below the upper/lower paint demarcation is the name Knave of Diamonds and below that 5 bomb symbols. Books also lists (p.41) 28 DZ-serialled Mosquitoes which served with 105 Sq, with code correlations given for 21 of them. No references to nose art though. Agrees with Mark's serial/code corellations for DZ548 and DZ491. DZ483 listed but with no code match. DK337 not listed. Another. less clear, photo of Knave of Diamonds' nose art appears on p.147 of Phillip Moyes' Bomber Squadrons of the RAF (PBS, 1976) where it is tied to serial DZ548. Edited July 15, 2015 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Thanks, Gents, I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been researched to death, but I suspect the secrecy surrounding the early Mosquito day bombers has limited the number of photos that could have linked the front and rear markings. Many years ago, I was stretched out at a Northern Virginia hospital beside a gentleman with a decidedly British accident. Conversation led to the fact that he had flown Mosquito day bombers during the war, and when I asked if he was in 105 or 139 squadron, the conversation became really lively! (He couldn't believe an American had even heard of his unit.) While we traded names and phone numbers, his was lost in the hospital process. I'm afraid my mind was realy on other things though - another lost opportunity to get some questions answered... Cheers, Dana 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Proulx Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 To quote from Combat Colours Number 5: The de Havilland Mosquito in RAF Photographic Reconnaissance and Bomber Service 1941 to 1945 by Paul Lucas and published by SAM: Mosquito B IV GB-N 105 Sqn circa May 1943: The nose art applied to this aircraft is typical of the kind applied whilst 105 Sqn was under the command of W/C John de Lacy Wooldridge during the spring of 1943. Several more were illustrated in the Wooldridge book "Low Attack", but frustratingly, it has proved impossible to match the artwork with code and serial combinations." HTH Mark Proulx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thanks, Mark, Low Attack has the best (and most) images of that artwork. Sorry to hear that we won't likely get to piece the nose art and aft fuselage markings together. (I'd particularly enjoy doing a series i in TLS with nose art!) Perhaps one day... Cheers, Dana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I don't know if this is relevant but there may be some clues in the photos of Mosquitos in "Low Attack": The photo of John De L. Wooldridge in front of "Knave of Diamonds" shows the aircraft has 5-stub exhausts and Wooldridge is a Wg Cdr. The next 3 photos in the book all show aircraft with nose art (unnamed with Sqn Ldr Channer, 'The Joker' and 'Knave of Spades') but with the shrouded exhausts seen on many of the other pics of 105 Sqn Mossies (eg DZ360, 'GB-A'). The next photo shows 'Popeye' again with 5-stub exhausts while the last, 'Uncle Sam' doesn't show enough of the aircraft to determine the type of exhaust, although another pic on p.54 of 'Mosquito Thunder' shows it to have shrouded exhausts. Of the above-listed, 'Knave of Diamonds' and 'Popeye' both seem rather worn around edges as if they'd both seen a lot of service. Also note Wooldridge only took over 105 Sqn on 10 March 1943. Other pics that don't show noseart in 'Low Attack' and 'Mosquito Thunder' show: DZ360, GB-A (Shrouded in 'Low Attack') DZ353, GB-E (Shrouded in 'Low Attack') DZ461, GB-G (Shrouded in 'Mosquito Thunder' p.103 - caption provides serial and code letter, neither are visible in the photo) DZ663, GB-J (Shrouded in 'Low Attack') DZ378, GB-K (Shrouded in 'Mosquito Thunder' p.81 - caption provides serial and code letter, neither are visible in the photo) DK337, GB-N (identified as possibly 'Uncle Sam') (Shrouded in 'Mosquito Thunder' p.129 - caption provides serial and code letter, neither are visible in the photo) Maybe the next step is to plough through 'Mosquito Thunder' and identify which codes are associated with which serials during which timeframes...but that may take a while. Sorry if this contribution is irrelevant to the discussion, I just thought the difference between shrouded and stub exhausts interesting. Cheers, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Suds Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 H Dana, sorry that I'm not answering your question re nose art but you mentioning 139 squadron prompted me to make this post. My aunt was a WAAF driver with 139 squadron, unfortunately now deceased so unable to ask about nose art on any of the squadron's Mosquitos. 139 was Actually by then known as 139 (Jamaica) Squadron and based at Upwood. Some photos on the web site don't show any nose art but thought you might be interested, if you haven't already visited, the web site for 139. http://www.rafupwood.co.uk/139lossesin1944.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Sharp and Bowyer in their book 'Mosquito' have an extensive tie up of serial numbers and code letters for 105 and 139 Squadrons Mosquitoes (although a bit confusing during Squadron beginnings as aircraft seem to have been shared). Unfortunately no mention of nose art, and although Wooldridge is mentioned several times, the aircraft he flew are not identified (unlike many other crew mentioned). PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Dana, I finally managed to venture into the archives of 'PD Decals'. We did decals for 'Knave of Diamonds' and had this on GB-D, serial DZ548, as mentioned in an earlier post. References for this are noted as: Aircraft in Profile No 209, DH Mosquito Mk IV, page 88 Mosquito Squadrons of the RAF by Chaz Bowyer, pages 94-5 Hope that helps PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) There is a beautifully clear close-up of the nose art on 105 Squadron's Uncle Sam (and absolutely nothing else bar the US pilot) on p.70 of Roger Freeman's Raiding The Reich. Freeman's caption gives the aircraft as DK337 GB-H. It's an IWM negative (CH10114) and the detail Freeman gives on the RAF photos throughout the book lead me to suspect he's taken it from the original photographer's ephemeris on when and where shot, etc. Edit: but see Dimmy's posts 2 and 5 down. Edited January 19, 2017 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Looks like there's a serial tie up with the info in "Mosquito Thunder" (see my post #8) but the code letter is different - "Mosquito Thunder" says 'GB-N' not 'GB-H' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmy Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 GB-H was DZ379 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 105 Sqn., Marham, December 1942 You can zoom in on the picture and read some of the serials. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 15 hours ago, Dimmy said: GB-H was DZ379 Thanks Dimmy. Do you have a source for that info? I'm interested so we can correlate it with the other information published on 105 Sqn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmy Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Sure, one photo of H-GB has been published in "De Havilland Mosquito" (Crowood Aviation series), p.58. I think this photo is from Charles Brown series (Dec 1942, RAF Marham). And here is another photo of H-GB (slightly different but definitely from the same series of photos): Image credit (с) http://worldwartwozone.com 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Well, that's nailed that. N/H confusion easy in handwritten notes and even from certain photo angles. Brown's Camera Above The Clouds Vol 1 has (p.106) a photo of DZ353 GB-E in Dec 1942: 4 mission markers beneath front corner of nav's window but no obvious nose art. In the background is DZ367 GB-J: again no obvious nose art. Both have shrouded exhausts. DZ367/GB-J correlation also recorded by Chaz Bowyer in Mosquito Squadrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Dimmy said: Sure, one photo of H-GB has been published in "De Havilland Mosquito" (Crowood Aviation series), p.58. I think this photo is from Charles Brown series (Dec 1942, RAF Marham). And here is another photo of H-GB (slightly different but definitely from the same series of photos): Image credit (с) http://worldwartwozone.com Awesome! Thanks for sharing this, Dimmy. Very much appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 On 18/07/2015 at 11:43 PM, Peter Roberts said: Sharp and Bowyer in their book 'Mosquito' have an extensive tie up of serial numbers and code letters for 105 and 139 Squadrons Mosquitoes (although a bit confusing during Squadron beginnings as aircraft seem to have been shared). And how! The serial/code correlations scattered through Chapter 13 knock Chaz Bowyer's listing into a cocked hat. I know Dimmy's photo is absolutely clear but the DZ379/GB-H correlation is confirmed in Sharp and (MJF) Bowyer's text, as is DK337/GB-N. Book also has a few words to say on the shrouded/unshrouded exhaust story. The unit was experimenting with various ways of improving performance yet further. Trials at Marham with DK336 showed that removing the exhaust shrouds and closing the stub ends to an oval section gave a performance gain of 10-13 mph. "Since they operated from dawn to dusk, 105 Sq called for fifteen aircraft with flame dampers and three with stubs", which I find hard to reconcile with a sentence later in the paragraph that "the shrouded exhausts were retained for dusk and dawn attacks and others were fitted with oval stubs for day raids." Maybe some of the 15 later had their shrouds removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Which edition of the book do you have, Seahawk? I'm seeing at least 2 versions online and am wondering if the later edition includes additional info not present in the first edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) I have both but am quoting from the 1995 "revised and updated" version from Crecy. Edited January 19, 2017 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Brilliant! Thanks mate. That said, my wife won't thank you as I've now added (yet) another book to my wants list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 From "Bombing Colours" by MJF Bowjer: Mk. IV Series II GB-B:DK292, 105 Sqn. June-October 1942 GB-G:DK296, 105 Sqn, September 25 1942, led raid on Gestapo Oslo headquarters GB-O:DK297, 105 Sqn. July 1942 XD-W:DZ381, 139 Sqn. 30 November 1942 lost May 27 1943 XD-R:DZ602, 139 Sqn. lost May 27 1943 (collision with DZ381) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 3 hours ago, ClaudioN said: From "Bombing Colours" by MJF Bowjer: Mk. IV Series II GB-B:DK292, 105 Sqn. June-October 1942 GB-G:DK296, 105 Sqn, September 25 1942, led raid on Gestapo Oslo headquarters GB-O:DK297, 105 Sqn. July 1942 XD-W:DZ381, 139 Sqn. 30 November 1942 lost May 27 1943 XD-R:DZ602, 139 Sqn. lost May 27 1943 (collision with DZ381) DK296/GB-G agrees with textual references in Sharp and (MJF) Bowyer. Not listed by (C) Bowyer. DK297/GB-O agrees with Bowyer and textual references in Sharp and Bowyer. DK292 appears in artwork rpt artwork in Sharp and Bowyer as GB-G. Not mentioned by Bowyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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