Dornier Do 17z (Airfix 1/72 Dogfight Doubles)

[jrlx]

Hi Roy,

Thanks a lot for your interest and for taking the time for sharing your thoughts, much appreciated

Thanks for your tips and advice. Dully noted and very useful.

I'm afraid Airfix is still to deliver the replacement parts. The ones I have were very kindly sent me by CedB, from his own kit. I'll post him the ones Airfix will send me, as soon as I get them.

Your picture pointing out all the MG15 drums was one I immediately noticed when I read your posts. I was wondering about the drum-shaped details that Eduard's instructions missed but now you clarified the issue. I will apply the remaining PE bits to those, before applying the black paint.

Regarding putty, I try to avoid using it as much as possible as it never fills ejection holes with just one pass. I use Squadron white putty, which should not shrink according to my LHS owner. I dilute it with enamel thinner and "paint" it in place with a brush. I also use CA (medium grade) as an alternative filler (also for glueing PE parts), and prefer it to putty. Whenever possible, I do as you do, and just grind or sand the moulding marks away.

I'll be following your build closely, as it is outstanding and full of great tips!

Cheers

Jaime

[jrlx]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your appreciation

I have a question regarding dipping the canopies in Aqua Gloss. I done it with the canopies of my Spitfire and Hurricane build, but when I attached a wrong part of the Eduard mask onto the Spitfire Canopy, the Aqua Gloss cote detached from the canopy when I removed the mask to add the correct piece! Did this ever happened to you?

I cleaned the canopy with windex, followed by a rinse in water before I dipped it in Aqua Gloss. I added the mask two days later, so it should have been fully cured.

I always wash the kit's parts with warm water and dishwasher liquid and let them dry for a day before starting working on them.

The parts dipped in Aqua Gloss also dry for a day, at least, before I apply the masks.

I never had the masks completely removing the Aqua Gloss. In fact, not even a bit till I started applying the masks to the Dornier transparent parts. With these, I had some tiny strips peeled off along the edges of parts but nothing really serious. Let's hope the varnish sticks to the plastic when I remove the masking after painting.

Cheers

Jaime

[jrlx]

Hi again,

 

New update.

 

Last night I pressed ahead with the masking of transparent parts. Still had four parts to mask.

 

Starting with the nose glazing, here's the part and the mask set, over the instructions:

IMAG2754

 

Masking of this part is a four step process.

 

First step completed:

IMAG2755

 

Second step completed:

IMAG2756

 

Third step completed:

IMAG2757

 

Fourth step and masking complete:

IMAG2758

 

Next comes the access hatch:

IMAG2759

 

Masking complete:

IMAG2760

 

Like before, I used masking tape instead of liquid mask to completely cover the glass dome.

 

Next comes the glazing that goes on the starboard side, right aft of the nose:

IMAG2761

 

Masking complete:

IMAG2762

 

To finish with, I masked the small window that goes on the bomb bay wall:

IMAG2763

 

This part was masked on both sides, since I will be painting it on both sides. The mask set only has one piece for it, so I cut an additional one from masking tape.

 

This concludes the masking phase of my three BoB GB builds. Last night's session took me 2h. Fortunately I had pre-cut masks...

 

Thanks for looking

 

Jaime

 

 

[Basilisk]

Hello Jaime,

Thank you for your reply. So it has to be the Airfix plastic

In regards to filling the ejector pin marks, I prefer using CA glue mixed with talcum powder. This will make it much more "sandable" and still doesn't shrink. And you can control the hardness with the amount of talcum powder you add. So I add more when using it on the soft Airfix plastic.

Cheers, Peter

[rob85]

Makes the defiant look a walk in the park.... Great work with the masks Jamie

Rob

[jrlx]

Hello Jaime,

Thank you for your reply. So it has to be the Airfix plastic

In regards to filling the ejector pin marks, I prefer using CA glue mixed with talcum powder. This will make it much more "sandable" and still doesn't shrink. And you can control the hardness with the amount of talcum powder you add. So I add more when using it on the soft Airfix plastic.

Cheers, Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the tip on using talcum + CA. I've never tried it.

Regarding the plastic, I did an Airfix kit before on which I gave the canopy the Aqua Gloss treatment, and didn't have any problem when removing the masks. Maybe it depends on the particular kit or other factor.

Makes the defiant look a walk in the park.... Great work with the masks Jamie

Rob

Thanks, Rob. Much appreciated. Masking the Defiant's canopy and turret also took me quite a while, so I wouldn't call it a walk in the park

Cheers

Jaime

[jrlx]

Hi again,

 

Update with last night's work.

 

With the transparent parts masked I was ready to start painting the interior RLM02 colour. First I stuck the transparent parts on toothpicks with blobs of blu-tack on the tip:

IMAG2764

 

After painting, this was the result:

IMAG2769

 

Thanks for looking

 

Jaime

 

 

[Roy vd M.]

Nice work, masking looks great and RLM02 appears to be scale-worthy.

[jrlx]

Hi Roy,

Thanks for your words. I didn't find any pictures that would be conclusive regarding your question of painting the cockpit interiors with RLM 02 or RLM 66, so I stuck to the instructions.

However, your decision to replace the kit's MG 15s with AM parts caused my "non-OOB urge" to kick in, as if the PE sets I'm using weren't enough, and I ordered 3 sets of Eduard's resin MG 15s with my LHS...

Your words about all the interior detail being hard to see through the kit's transparent parts, which indeed are a bit thick, also made me order a set of vacform transparent parts (Squadron's SQS9168 set for the Revell kit, as it seems there's no set specifically for the new Airfix kit) and a new set of Eduard pre-cut masks. Let's hope it fits.

In summary, I'm readying myself to use my first vacform parts and go through all the masking work again...

Unfortunately I missed my LHS end-of-the-month order-cycle by a day, so my order will only be here by the end of October, which will make me miss the GB deadline. But that's all-right, because the increased level of detail seems to be worth it. In the meantime I'll press on with the build, including exterior painting of the kit's transparent parts in case the vacforms don't fit.

I'm afraid I'll have to blame all this change of plans on you

Cheers

Jaime

[Roy vd M.]

Jaime,

I'm sure that even if my RLM66-theory is correct, somewhere there was a Dornier 17 with RLM02 cockpit. Deviations in RLM-coloring are known to exist, notwithstanding the very strict RLM and the Grundligkeit involved.

You're surely very eager to know what the Eduard set looks like from up-close; so I made a pic:

Not well visible in the pics: the barrel does have nice recessed detail.

Your words about all the interior detail being hard to see through the kit's transparent parts, which indeed are a bit thick, also made me order a set of vacform transparent parts (Squadron's SQS9168 set for the Revell kit, as it seems there's no set specifically for the new Airfix kit) and a new set of Eduard pre-cut masks. Let's hope it fits.

Great, I'll look forward to seeing if that fits. I didn't want to take that risk (as you say, there is no Vacuform set for the Airfix set yet). If they fit, I might also go for that solution rather than trying to vacuform those parts myself.

which will make me miss the GB deadline. But that's all-right, because the increased level of detail seems to be worth it.

Each his priorities... mine would be exactly the same as yours: finished kit and better results always are more important to me than meeting deadlines. Modeling should be satisfactory, fun and a hobby, not a job; in modeling I don't use any deadlines with one exception (weekend group build, which was a great experience by the way)

I'm afraid I'll have to blame all this change of plans on you

You're welcome

[jrlx]

Hi Roy,

Thanks for taking the time for posting the pictures of the Eduard MGs. They really put them in perspective It seems some extra care will be needed to remove the parts from the resin blocks.

I hope the vacform transparent parts fit. Anyway, I have the original injected transparent parts as a backup.

In the meanwhile I'll concentrate on finishing the interiors (still a lot of work to do) and the wings, wheel bays and landing gears, and the engines.

Cheers

Jaime

[jrlx]

Hi again,

 

In a previous post Roy pointed out that Eduard's PE instructions are not complete regarding the application of the machine gun drums and straps. Taking Roy's picture into account I set out to apply the missing parts.

 

Here are the plastic parts where additional PE MG 15 drums and straps are needed:

IMAG2775

 

For each MG cartridge a PE strap and PE drums must be applied, as shown in the next picture where two sets were missing (left of centre and centre MG cartridges):

IMAG2779

 

In this case, only a drum and four straps could be applied, due to space limitations:

IMAG2777

 

Here, four straps were applied:

IMAG2776

 

Here two sets of drums and strap were applied:

IMAG2780

 

Even the aft gunner's chair had MG cartridges fixed to the legs:

IMAG2778

 

Having applied the missing PE parts, I moved on to painting them. According to Eduard's instructions for their resin MG 15 set, the cartridge should be dark metal and the straps red brown. I only managed to paint the cartridges and used Gunze's H28 Metal Black.

 

My initial idea was to mask the parts with masking tape and airbrush the metal black. However, after close inspection, the small size and complexity of forms made me decide to brush paint the parts. The following pictures show the results:

IMAG2784

 

IMAG2782

 

IMAG2781

 

IMAG2783

 

IMAG2785

 

Then I noticed that there was an additional part with PE missing. Here it is after applying the missing PE:

IMAG2786

 

And after finishing painting:

IMAG2787

 

I still have to paint the straps and the handles of the control column. Then I'll be able to move on to finish the application of the cockpit's pre-painted PE.

 

All this took me about 4h to complete.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Jaime

 

 

[CedB]

That's a LOT of cartridges Jaime - good job!

[Roy vd M.]

Looking great! There are indeed a lot of drums (35 in total) but on the real plane there would be 44.

Still... one drum (containing 75 rounds) could be emptied in 4.5 seconds. Consecutively fired, there would be a maximum of 3.5 minutes of firing in a Dornier 17z. If all guns were theoretically fired at once, the whole supply of MG15 rounds in those 44 drums would have been emptied within one minute.

So I understand why they put a drum in every free spot they could find.

To illustrate the above, see

.

[CedB]

Crikey - rapid fire but what a recoil!

It's always amazed me how little ammunition (time wise) WWII aircraft (in general) carried... and that's another example!

[jrlx]

Ced, thanks! This was a real test on my patience, both applying the remaining PE parts and painting all the cartridges with a nº 0 detail brush under the magnifying glass... All done after 23:00 last night.

Roy, thanks for the video and the info on the MGs. Really interesting. Like Ced, I'm also amazed by limitations those airmen had to cope with at the time, both with ammunition and, in some cases like the Bf 109 E3 and E4, fuel/range.

Cheers

Jaime

[jrlx]

Hi again,

 

I haven't had much time lately, as I've been quite busy at the day job. Today, at last, I managed to get some time to post an update on work done since the last weekend.

 

Inspired by Roy's build, I decided to unashamedly copy his idea of detailing the back of the instrument panel. I started by photocopying the PE fret to use the copy of the IP parts as templates for the location of the instruments' backs. Here's the copy, with the IP parts already cut off:

IMAG2789

 

These templates where used to mark the locations of the intruments' backs:

IMAG2788

 

I applied pieces of stretched sprue and plasticard to create the instruments' backs:

IMAG2790

 

Then I masked the control column, that needed to be painted black:

IMAG2796

 

After painting with matt black, this is how the back of the IP looks:

IMAG2805

 

The wiring will be applied later.

 

Here's the control column after matt black painting:

IMAG2806

 

Then, I painted the leather straps on the MG15 cartridges. This was done with a nº 0 detail brush, under a magnifying glass. Here are the results:

IMAG2822

 

IMAG2823

 

IMAG2824

 

IMAG2825

 

IMAG2826

 

The leather straps on the gunners' seats were also painted:

IMAG2821

 

So, this is as far as I got. Didn't have much time for further work this week.

 

In the meantime, I received the replacements for the defective lower wing parts from Airfix. However, the replacement transparent sprue is still out of stock:

IMAG2829

 

The parts were sent me already cut off of the sprues. Fortunately, there's a small plastic stub on the attachment points and no damage to the parts. However, one of the parts is slightly warped:

IMAG2830

 

Since the plastic is very flexible and soft, I don't expect this to be a problem.

 

Ced, kind as ever, already told me he can wait for the transparent sprue to arrive from Airfix before I send him the lot. Thanks

 

That's all for now and thanks for looking.

 

Jaime

 

 

[CedB]

Wow Jaime, those mags are great and now you're wiring the IP!!?? That's it, I definitely won't be trying to keep up with you anymore!!

[jrlx]

Well Ced, it's not my idea... I'm just copying Roy's build... Fortunately he is way ahead than myself

[Roy vd M.]

Great job on the instrument cluster!

By the way, on your picture #7, some molded detail needs to be removed (PE will cover that). Eduard forgot to indicate that in their instructions.

See here (I removed the detail after painting as well):

[jrlx]

Thanks for the reminder, Roy I'd already noticed that in your thread will do

[Fatboydim]

Another great build Jaime. This looks like one of your best yet. Joe

[jrlx]

Hi Joe,

Glad to have you back on board Thanks for the very kind words, always much appreciated

Cheers

Jaime

[jrlx]

Hi,

 

An update on the application of PE in the cockpit interior, done this week.

 

Started by applying the compass and covering lid, situated just in front of the pilot's seat:

IMAG2866

 

Next, I applied two levers that go in the round bit in the centre of the following part:

IMAG2867

 

Then, I noticed that I had to completely remove the raised detail in the centre of the following part, in order to be able to apply a relatively large PE part, depicting what seem to be the faces of radio equipment. Initially, before painting the part, I only removed the raised detail on the faces of the plastic blocks that represented the radios, but this wasn't enough because de disposition of these blocks didn't coincide with the form of the PE part. So, after completely removing the plastic (and damaging the painting and the machine gun cartridges already finished) this was what I got:

IMAG2868

 

Then, I applied the said largish PE part, damaging an additional cartridge in the process:

IMAG2869

 

This was followed by a PE part on the extreme right side of the plastic part:

IMAG2870

 

And the tuning knobs and dial coverage:

IMAG2871

 

Finally, I reapplied the damaged PE parts on the cartridges:

IMAG2873

 

I still have to repair the painting.

 

The next plastic part also needed some removing of raised detail (thanks to Roy for alerting me to that). This time I managed not to damage anything:

IMAG2874

 

The PE was applied, resulting in this:

IMAG2875

 

After this, I glued the following plastic part on the inner starboard wall:

IMAG2877

 

and then applied 4 PE parts, as seen here:

IMAG2880

 

The following plastic part was glued on the inner port wall:

IMAG2878

 

And 6 PE parts were applied:

IMAG2879

 

I still have to apply about 13 levers on the top-middle PE part but I'll only do this after weathering the cockpit, in order not to damage the levers.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Jaime

 

 

[Roy vd M.]

Looking good Jaime! Repairing the RLM02 should not be too much trouble; if the paint isn't exactly the same color that's only more realistic maybe.

Looking forward to a new update