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1/48 - Grumman F-14A/B & D Tomcat by AvantGarde Model Kits (AMK) - F-14D released

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6 hours ago, delide said:

Yeah, but in Giorgio's post he never talked about any forum at all, neither was he impolite or disrespectful, so it's still disappointing to see it deleted,.

I agree, Giorgio’s posts that I read in the past have been objective and not rude. I agree that we don’t owe the companies anything and are not obligated to buy their products. 

 

Thats why I was very glad when I see smaller companies like AMK coming up with a kit that is lovingly designed, contains more plastic than the others and has great detail and fit. I would but the kit just to support them. I am tired of high priced kits with limited options, empty pylons with limited or no weapons, and brands flogging an old mould with just minor upgrades or new decals, and requiring us to supplement with after markets. 

 

For example I have been looking for a good F-4E/F/G long nose Phantom in 1/72 but the “best” kit in the market is an old kit with poor fit that the company is flogging. 

 

Maybe the AMK kit is not perfect, and yes AMK took a long time (I hear that Sio had stopped work or slowed down due to personal problems for half a year or more). Nevertheless I hope these small companies keep on producing great kits to keep the market competitive and the big boys on their toes. Having many model options and supporting these companies will benefit us hobbyists in the long run. 

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44 minutes ago, CasualModel98 said:

I agree, Giorgio’s posts that I read in the past have been objective and not rude. I agree that we don’t owe the companies anything and are not obligated to buy their products. 

 

Thats why I was very glad when I see smaller companies like AMK coming up with a kit that is lovingly designed, contains more plastic than the others and has great detail and fit. I would but the kit just to support them. I am tired of high priced kits with limited options, empty pylons with limited or no weapons, and brands flogging an old mould with just minor upgrades or new decals, and requiring us to supplement with after markets. 

 

For example I have been looking for a good F-4E/F/G long nose Phantom in 1/72 but the “best” kit in the market is an old kit with poor fit that the company is flogging. 

 

Maybe the AMK kit is not perfect, and yes AMK took a long time (I hear that Sio had stopped work or slowed down due to personal problems for half a year or more). Nevertheless I hope these small companies keep on producing great kits to keep the market competitive and the big boys on their toes. Having many model options and supporting these companies will benefit us hobbyists in the long run. 

Word!

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Last OT post on this thread from me, I promise: folks, I appreciate the support for my previous post and I'm glad that others share my views. Views that I will sure express again in the future whenever I feel it's worth and always trying not to be rude (sometime I succeed, sometime I don't).

However please let's not make a big deal of the matter! The moderators have all the rights to remove content that they feel not appropriate for one reason or the other. It's part of the way a discussion forum works, it's part of the rules of the house and my stance is always to accept them, even when they affect my posts.

So please, let's move over, don't even bother replying to this post but let's just go back to the AMK Tomcat, a kit that judging from the many pages of discussion is generating a lot of interest... not surprisingly, it's a Tomcat !

 

And back to the kit, as we're finally seeing the plastic and the release is now near, the matter will be where it's best to buy the kit from. Personally I will sure buy it because as a Tomcat fanatic I aim to own every kit of Grumman's big cat.. if there's room for the old 1/48 Fujimi kit in my stash, there's sure room for this one. I even have the 1/72 Monogram kit, that only represents the wooden mockup..

There's also another reason for me to buy it: I can see that something may not be quite 100% right but we're talking about some pretty complex curves and I prefer to judge with the plastic in my hands. Some problems are easy to spot in pictures (think Hobbyboss 1/48 intakes for example), this one IMHO is not.

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18 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said:

Well, be that as it may, me ain't buying "they're" AMK Tomcat kit, as we suffer from some irreconcilable differences, she and I.

Yeh, we do...

Cheers,

 

Uh-huh2

Yes, I bet  you will ….  just because a clever business man whose name begins with z-a-c-t  could produce a "upgrading set" for you sa as to reconciliate her with you !. Why do you think he is so busy bashing the kit and collecting free informations on the forum we may not speak about ? Or maybe one day another guy ( alittle bit more discreet but as talented) working for a company called , sorry  I can't name it ,( but it begins with H-y-p,)  could do the same.

So think twice before swearing and I'll think twice before writing... 😄

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This wheel well is very impressive and way beyond my skill level to duplicate.  But the kit detail certainly does look excellent and I loved the cockpit he did also.  I was going to pass as I only have so much room and have the Tamiya F-14A in my stash but I think I could easily change my mind now.  Problem is (not really a problem but an opportunity) is the significant number of great new kits coming out that "I must have".  Need more shelves for my stash, that might solve the issue.

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12 hours ago, CasualModel98 said:

I agree, Giorgio’s posts that I read in the past have been objective and not rude. I agree that we don’t owe the companies anything and are not obligated to buy their products. 

 

Thats why I was very glad when I see smaller companies like AMK coming up with a kit that is lovingly designed, contains more plastic than the others and has great detail and fit. I would but the kit just to support them. I am tired of high priced kits with limited options, empty pylons with limited or no weapons, and brands flogging an old mould with just minor upgrades or new decals, and requiring us to supplement with after markets. 

 

For example I have been looking for a good F-4E/F/G long nose Phantom in 1/72 but the “best” kit in the market is an old kit with poor fit that the company is flogging. 

 

Maybe the AMK kit is not perfect, and yes AMK took a long time (I hear that Sio had stopped work or slowed down due to personal problems for half a year or more). Nevertheless I hope these small companies keep on producing great kits to keep the market competitive and the big boys on their toes. Having many model options and supporting these companies will benefit us hobbyists in the long run. 

Haha, I'm not into 1/72 but I have an idea which manufacturer you are talking about😆

 

More options are great for us of course, I just want to add that in the long run it may be better for both modelers and manufacturers, if they chose to offer more options of different subjects, instead of going head on with the best manufacturer, looking at Kitty Hawk I'd say it's possible to easily get away with much less!! On the other hand I did see a promising new manufacturer get killed by the release of the same subject from an established manufacturer (an armor kit that is, the market there seems to be much smaller), it's a real shame...

 

To be fair, I think one of the reasons some new kits are more expensive than others (in certain cases at least) is that they have more extensive/expensive research, like hands on/on site research, official documents... all take more money and time. Anyway, AMK's kit is getting close, for their level of details and engineering the price seems to be surprisingly good, though personally I wouldn't mind that they improve a bit on the research in the future and get more expensive if needed, but that's just my wish, the market will decide, if the kit sells well enough then it's good enough.  It would also be great if people would be more relaxed about critiques and not that protective, IMO it wouldn't have gone half that bad, in the end when the kit comes out, there will be plenty of chances for people to change their mind.

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18 hours ago, madcop said:

Yes, I bet  you will ….  just because a clever business man whose name begins with z-a-c-t  could produce a "upgrading set" for you sa as to reconciliate her with you !. Why do you think he is so busy bashing the kit and collecting free informations on the forum we may not speak about ? Or maybe one day another guy ( alittle bit more discreet but as talented) working for a company called , sorry  I can't name it ,( but it begins with H-y-p,)  could do the same.

So think twice before swearing and I'll think twice before writing... 😄

Imagine the following situation:

- you discuss with an F-14 enthusiast friend that thinks that there's something weird about the front fuselage profile of built AMK F-14s

- in order to figure out what you friend actually means and pinpoint the issue you overlay Grumman drawings to built AMK and to built 1/48 Tamiya photos... Grumman drawings match Tamiya (without changing aspect ratio) but they don't match AMK

 

Would showing these overlays be considered bashing the AMK kit or providing factual informations ?

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Imagine the following situation:

- you discuss with an F-14 enthusiast friend that thinks that there's something weird about the front fuselage profile of built AMK F-14s

- in order to figure out what you friend actually means and pinpoint the issue you overlay Grumman drawings to built AMK and to built 1/48 Tamiya photos... Grumman drawings match Tamiya (without changing aspect ratio) but they don't match AMK

 

Would showing these overlays be considered bashing the AMK kit or providing factual informations ?

You are 100% right. Looking at a scale model to see if it captures the shape of the subject and then commenting about how accurate the model company was in their attempt is NOT bashing the model company.

 

Model companies (hopefully) set out to reproduce an exact scale model of the subject. AMK had said their F-14D would be the most accurate and fully detailed F-14D ever kitted. They aren't saying that now. We all know about the delay in getting this AMK F-14D on the market because the test shots had some very glaring errors that AMK attempted to fix.

 

There are proven shape issues with the AMK F-14D. From photos posted online the kit has some very nice detailing. Until AMK mails me my copy which I preordered and paid for OVER TWO YEARS AGO I won't be able to fully scrutinize this model. Based upon the photographs comparing the AMK to a real F-14D I would say this kit gets at the most a 7 on a 10 point scale. This score may go lower once I get the kit in my hands and look at it.

 

For those modelers who haven't bought the AMK F-14D they can now make an informed decision and choose between the many 1/48 F-14s produced. I'll be waiting for Great Wall Hobbies 1/48 F-14 to come out and see how that turns out before I buy another F-14 kit. I won't buy another AMK F-14D because of the shape issues.

 

On a personal note: I am very disappointed that AMK didn't immediately send out kits to those of us who paid for the kit over two years ago, but they made sure complete copies (plastic, photoetch, decals, and instructions) were first sent to friendly online reviewers. At the very least I should have had the kit in my hands at the same time it was given out to others and before the kit hits the distributors and hobby shops. :shrug:

Edited by Masinissa

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Based on Fishbone's exemplary build in progress, the AMK looks like a tasty item that just requires un petit morceau de fill-err on top of its love handles and a light sanding on the sides to correct.

 

Do we get a paint-by-numero guide for the wheel wells etc. in the AMK instrcutions, or do we have to go blind buying and squinting at glossy aircraft pictures in an up-everywhere guide ? 

 

I like the prominent white instrument panel decals. Could do with some fictitious, generic rhubarb-rhubarb version for 1/48 and 1/32 jets @airscale

 

Tony 

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On 9/14/2019 at 4:04 PM, Laurent said:

Imagine the following situation:

- you discuss with an F-14 enthusiast friend that thinks that there's something weird about the front fuselage profile of built AMK F-14s

- in order to figure out what you friend actually means and pinpoint the issue you overlay Grumman drawings to built AMK and to built 1/48 Tamiya photos... Grumman drawings match Tamiya (without changing aspect ratio) but they don't match AMK

 

Would showing these overlays be considered bashing the AMK kit or providing factual informations ?

Interesting comment. Does this mean your friend have completed an AMK kit and compared it to the Grumman drawing? Please show the overlay of the AMK kit for us to see the shape error as a service to the community.

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2 hours ago, CasualModel98 said:

We can only confirm right or wrong when we get our hands on the actual kit.

Profile photos of built AMK kit is enough as suggests the Tamiya vs Grumman overlay 

2 hours ago, CasualModel98 said:

Based on this picture from Fishbone, it seems the shape of the “fat” rear end is correct. The diagram from the DACO book.

The conclusion would rather be that AMK may have used the Daco drawings to design the CAD. AFAIK the Daco drawings don't include cross-sectional data so it's impossible to make an accurate 3D model out of them.

Edited by Laurent

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Profile photos of built AMK kit is enough as suggests the Tamiya vs Grumman overlay 

[...] 

it actually is only anecdotal evidence. But we're pretty close to be in the position to use the real thing. 

 

Question to the 'Grumman drawing', is the source a production or maintenance document? 

 

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5 minutes ago, Ka-Efka said:

it actually is only anecdotal evidence.

People who own the AMK kit can compare the lengths of the AMK and Tamiya canopies.

5 minutes ago, Ka-Efka said:

Question to the 'Grumman drawing', is the source a production or maintenance document?

The point is that there's perfect match with Tamiya but not with AMK.

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This whole AMK Tomcat affair has gone on far too long. I really hope it's not "that" flawed, just for the sake of those who preordered it, had to wait and now receive no consideration and maybe will get a kit needing corrections - (I didn't preorder it).

Edited by PattheCat

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1 hour ago, whiskey said:

I would purchase the AMK kit before considering adding the HobbyBoss to my Tomcat stash solely based off of the photos provided of the test builds going around right now. That should be enough to let people know that it's a model kit and it's still going to LOOK like a F-14 Tomcat at the end of the day. And it looks to be a very very interesting kit indeed already.

 

Yes it was touted as the most accurate blah blah during pre-production, they've screwed up all kinds of crap on it blah blah, it's taking too long blah blah, they've fixed things or did they blah blah blah blah. It's a blah. This thread is starting to look like ARC's. Give it a rest.

 

No one here is giving modellers like myself the confidence to actually purchase the kit and build it because of all the bloody nitpicking and it really does look like a cool kit to build. Yes GWH is apparently releasing an F-14 but when? Do any of you that have stated that they're waiting on it actually have a confirmed date of release? And how do you know it'll be supposedly perfect like only those who have said they are waiting on it to be? 

 

I vote that if anyone here is not going to buy the kit, then please step away from thread and take a breather from all of this. You're doing more harm by sticking around.

 

- Zach "tired of all the AMK F-14 drama."

WELL SAID, THAT MAN !

 

I could not have put it better myself.......just purchased my first AMK F-14D this weekend and looking forward to its arrival here in a few weeks time !

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I already have 17 1/48 scale F-14’s in the collection, and that’s before the 3 AMK F-14D’s I have on order land. This is what us F-14 addicts go through, and even with these unassembled squadrons it is apparent that compared to some, my Tomcat addiction can be considered “mild”.

 

Personally, as long as the shape is accurate enough and the shape issues do not render the aircraft unrecognisable that will be enough for me. 99.9% of the folks that look at my completed efforts will not be able to recognise the inaccuracies anyway, for me the build experience is far more important.

 

What I do hope for though is that AMK looks hard at the lessons that need to be learnt in getting this kit to market. Sincere Hobby has had my order for so long that it no longer appears on their system, so I’ll be seeking AMK’s input should that order not be honoured. This is after the original company I placed an order and deposit with in Belgium went out of business. That’s my story, but doubtless there will be others similar. For me, the lessons for AMK are;

 

1) More effective communication, especially when people have paid money up front for the goods

2) Targeting and sticking to realistic release dates. A month to several months slippage I think most modellers could understand, but when a product is a couple of years late to market, especially given that the modelling community helped fund this project, is less excusable.

3) As mentioned above, there are going to be people who are out of pocket because of the time taken getting the kit to market, as evidenced here and in other places, this has caused AMK considerable repetitional damage. What is AMK willing to do to help if folks have proof that they have purchased these kits, but vendors are not sending the goods? Perhaps a more tenuous point, but I think AMK should step in and mediate here should this become an issue.

Edited by March

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I thought this was supposed to be a peaceful, occasionally funny banter about AMK's F-14? Not some heated arguments? Can we please go back to a more peaceful discussion, maybe?

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Once again we have multiple posting in this thread which have nothing to do with the kit, or even this site.

 

One member is now subject to a suspension for his comments, and as such this thread will now be closed as people we not able to heed the warnings from earlier.

 

 

 

 

 

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Re-opened with a caveat about the expected tone of this thread and the re-closure if it deviates from other than polite, healthy and useful discussion ;)

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Well, just been contacted by HobbyEasy stating they are expecting them soon.

They are honouring the pre order price of AUD80 and including the Ordnance set

 

Bruce 

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