How long do the pros take to do the average 1/48 scale bi-plane?

[Beardie]

Just wondering if their are any chaps here who do the builds for the magazines and manufacturers who might give me an idea of how long they generally take to do something along the lines of say an Eduard F.2b or Camel. The reason I ask is that for me it is a painfully slow process compared to say a mono-winged WWII bird. With all the finishing that has to be done even before the top wing goes on and curing of paint layers, painstaking rigging etc. I would guess that they do it a lot quicker than me and I am wondering just what the secret is or do they get test examples months prior to the release of a new kit in order to get a display example for the websites, magazines and shows.

[Buster213]

I don't have an answer for you Beardie but I guess it would be just like a job in many respects, the more they do the more professional their set up will be. Many, many years ago I built some models for a new model shop that had just opened up locally and wanted some built for his window display. My reward was lots of freebies in the way of brushes, paints, sprays, decals etc. Much as I enjoyed the builds to pass the time I didn't really "get into" the build for my own pleasure. I enjoy the build in itself with all the frustrations, trials and tribulations. The end product gives me a sense of achievement and a reminder of the the various foibles I had to overcome to complete the build. Once built. mine get put in a secure box in the loft. As I mentioned, the fun for me is the build process. Does the professional golfer get the same pleasure from a good round of golf as a high handicapped player ?, I doubt it.

[MikeC]

I don't know about the pros, but a Wingnut Wings Sopwith Triplane took me about 3-4 months elapsed time, with a quick 1:48 Spitfire thrown in as well for a bit of light relief while oils were drying etc.

[Beardie]

I finally completed my Eduard Brisfish about a month ago so that was about four months on that one and it ain't perfect (Got another one in the stash to build at some point and try to better the finish). At the same time I have been doing other kits so it wasn't exclusive. What does get me is the finished models you see on sites like Eduard's own of completed examples of models when they are released and I wondered if the guys building them had some trick up their sleeves to build quickly or whether they had a copy of the kit a long time before launch.

On the same note do you guys out there in BMland tend to build more than one copy of particular kits in order to try and improve on the finish.

I am finding that the more I build the more I discover that there are lessons that I need to learn that apply specifically to the construction of certain kits.

For example I have built three Eduard Camels so far. The first one was pretty rough and I learned a few things about how the kit had to be handled to go together properly. Second was a lot smoother but still had problems I needed to overcome and learn from that marred the build. Third was a little better but still could do with a fair bit of improvement. I have three in the stash (The Black Mike Limited edition kit and a Dual Kit) and hopefully by the time I reach the Black Mike I will have perfected the necessary techniques required to handle that particular kit.

I have found this sort of situation with each class of bi-plane I build. The different marques of Albatros have their foibles as do the Fokkers, sopwiths, Pfalz's etc.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Beardie

[SaintsPhil]

I've often wondered the same thing, if you think though that over those 3-4 months, how many hours you put in, then compress that into working 'full time' on it 8+ a day I bet you could turn it out in a week or 2, allowing for cure times etc.

I know from personal experience my hour or so a night I get to model for is interleaved with interrupts from the 'boss' and me faffing about on here or looking for stuff to watch on YouTube etc.

as an aside I wonder if professional modelers spend as much time stuffing the net looking at other things, when they should be modeling, as I do looking at model things when I should be doing my day job...

Edited July 29, 2015 by SaintsPhil

[vince14]

I've had the WNW Fokker E.III on the go now for over a year....

[Lionfish]

Interesting question...

i built a Roden 1/32 Albatros DIII and it took me about 3-4 months. I then built a Roden pfalz DIII and it took me 2-3 months (improvement or better kit?) - i work full time and long hours some times so really it is a few evenings once the kids are in bed and then a Saturday morning unless i am out on the bike.

I then built a Sopwith pup (WNW) and that took a few weeks, the W29 (WNW) took about a month - more finishing and putting of doing the lozenge decal . The WNW had a lot more detail and less messing around to get a good fit. The two Roden kits came out well in the end and i really enjoyed building all of them, but due to some warping and alignment issues on the upper wing (that could have been me) it really stretched the build process out. I have only built one Eduard biplane - i think it was the DVII and that took me about a month as well. I found that using Acrylics instead of Oil / Enamel greatly sped up the build as little to no waiting as i can now get on with it once i am on a roll.

But i think that as long as you are enjoying what you do and you are getting the results that you want then i think that it takes as long as it takes!!

[fingers]

On the same note do you guys out there in BMland tend to build more than one copy of particular kits in order to try and improve on the finish.

I am finding that the more I build the more I discover that there are lessons that I need to learn that apply specifically to the construction of certain kits.

I've always wondered this as I tend to wander from one genre of model making to another (mainly 1/48 aircraft and 1/35 afv) and have tried to keep this up to prevent mojo loss, I suppose. I am now, as my skills have improved over the 4 or 5 years since my return to the hobby, finding that I want to get that model right so that there are no 'excepts' when finished, still haven't managed that.

[MikeC]

... What does get me is the finished models you see on sites like Eduard's own of completed examples of models when they are released and I wondered if the guys building them had some trick up their sleeves to build quickly or whether they had a copy of the kit a long time before launch.

...

I suspect they do get them somewhat early, but there are some people who can just build a kit in just about the time it takes me to open the box and then find all my research notes. I did once ask a friend at my then club how he did so many so quickly. He was a very prolific modeller of 1:48 aircraft; they were always finished to a high standard, and he had a very demanding job. He said that fortunately he generally worked from home, and that every time he passed the model room he did something - paint a wheel or two, swipe a sanding stick over a seam, or whatever - just a few minutes at a time. He found that together with the longer sessions it did move things on apace. I've tried to adopt this approach to some extent now I've retired and it does speed things up, but I'm nowhere near as fast as many people are.

On the same note do you guys out there in BMland tend to build more than one copy of particular kits in order to try and improve on the finish.

I am finding that the more I build the more I discover that there are lessons that I need to learn that apply specifically to the construction of certain kits.

Indeed yes. See also the quote in my signature ...

[Beardie]

Hmmm I think I have to agree wholeheartedly with Mr Shostakovich. I have yet to build a single model where I have even been close to satisfied with my work. I find that, as a build progresses it gets harder and harder to keep working on it either because I have already made some mistake/missed some infinitely small piece of PE out of the cockpit or suchlike or let myself down in some way with my skills or I become more and more concerned that I am going to ruin all my hard work. The final hours on any particular kit are a real struggle and I find myself looking at the stash thinking "I could just start on that one just now and get back to this one".

I have found the exact same type of conflict when I used to paint (artistically not the house type) and playing musical instruments. What a strange and compulsive thing it is to pursue any kind of artistic hobby

Edited August 4, 2015 by Beardie

[noelh]

That's kind of a 'How long is a piece of string?' type discussion. My WNW Bristol Fighter has been sitting there not for a least a year. But I stopped working on it when I realised my modelling skills had withered from non use. So I am practicing on cheaper or easier kits.

But I had a similar thought yesterday when I was working on my Eduard Spitfire and think I spent the better part of forty to fifty minutes struggling with their needlessly complex wheel well detail. I still enjoyed it but it occurred to me that if this continues it will never be finished just like the BF.

But in terms of the time taken. Is it man hours or calendar time? If you treated it like a job. Get up in the morning and work assiduously until lunchtime everyday. I'm sure it would be finished in a few days. But who can do that? Even I who is now a stay at home Father don't have the time although with the kids back at school next week. I may give it a try, household duties permitting.

[Beardie]

Well what did strike me was that, even if you dedicated time to a kit as if it was an eight hour-a-day job doing a kit to "show standards" seems to take a very long time, given paint drying times, the painstaking process of rigging, doing oil-paint weathering etc.

Not in the WWI class but last night I was doing a camo paint job for a spit Vc and a Hurricane I and it took me over two hours a piece just to apply my blu-tak masking in a reasonable semblance of the appropriate schemes. In the WWI context I have seen it take me many many hours just to get a reasonable wood effect finish on an Albatros D.III.

[Vanroon]

Just wondering if their are any chaps here who do the builds for the magazines and manufacturers who might give me an idea of how long they generally take to do something along the lines of say an Eduard F.2b or Camel. The reason I ask is that for me it is a painfully slow process compared to say a mono-winged WWII bird. With all the finishing that has to be done even before the top wing goes on and curing of paint layers, painstaking rigging etc. I would guess that they do it a lot quicker than me and I am wondering just what the secret is or do they get test examples months prior to the release of a new kit in order to get a display example for the websites, magazines and shows.

I've been pondering just your dilemma recently. Having recently retired with all the upheaval of routine that that entails, my thoughts stray to the stash, in particular the pile of 1/32 WW and 1/48 Roden aircraft. Hide-bound from a career in production of transportable houses, everyone in the company knew the count-down from set-up to watching the unit leave the yard, I'm looking for that kind of 'punch-list' for a typical bi(tri)plane build.

My interest in these 'planes is tempered by lack of a logical procedure preplanned in my mind to do justice to the moulding and airframe of the topic. Time is of no great import, I'm working on reacquisition of lost skills by butchering modern kits. Perhaps even recovery of a bit of the 'I don't know what' that once made my models pop from my contemporaries models when on a communal table.

Might be nice.

Grant

[Beardie]

Ah logical procedure, now you have me there, I have never found a particular "logical procedure" that is a cover-all for all world war one kits particularly in terms of painting. I have to say I have never built 1/32 scale WWI kits (WNW etc.) The bulk of my WWI stash is Eduard 1/48 kit's with 1/48th Blue Max, Aeroclub, Special Hobby, Flashback kits making up much of the rest and a couple of Roden (I'm not persomally a fan of Roden (Simply because of their poor decals and soft plastics) and so will only opt for one of theirs if there is no other option).

Generally as I start on a new kit, which I haven't had prior experience with I make an assessment and carry out painting as I go along. Internals are fine as once they are zipped up it is easy enough to mask them off. Fuselages tend to be painted prior to wings being put in place. Upper surfaces of lower wings and lower surfaces of upper wings painted. All struts painted before wing assembly and rigging. With lower wing in place I will then drill all necessary holes for rigging (Blind into upper surface of lower wing, through and through into upper wing. Once the wings are in place I will get at least the main rigging in place (adds significant strength to the wing assembly) I won't put any control lines in to ailerons or empennages, or bracing wires which attach to the nose end of the fuselage yet as these will get in the way of decal'ing and handling. After the rigging is in place I will tidy up the holes in the upper wing where the rigging comes through (and any that I had to drill right through the lower wing too where necessary) then mask around under the edges and paint and decal the as yet unpainted wing surfaces then control horns, control wires, empennage cables will finally go on etc. etc. etc.

But I have found that every single type has it's own particular requirements in what rigging can be added at what time in the build with the worst being the pushers which take a tremendous amount of time thought and planning to rig successfully.

[Vanroon]

Beardie, thanks for the informative reply. I wasn't looking for a 'one size fit', rather a template of procedures. The insights outlined in your reply gives a start.

I'm trying to proceed logically by trying to undertake 'work in progress' type of documentation, as I note much great advice is offered in such threads when readers are engaged. As such I'm mapping a story-board for my next few builds, hopefully eliminating my usual faffing about for actual progress and interacting more with the membership.

Cheers mate,

Grant

[Beardie]

Hi Grant,

Sorry I didn't actually mean to ramble on I was just thinking through the process I follow myself and trying to make some sense of it.

I have to say that I love modern WWI bi- and tri- plane kits. So much more detailed and challenging than the old 1/72 kits I built many years ago. I have found that these kits are extremely challenging but immensely rewarding. The most important thing I think I could advise anyone on building them is to take your time and consider every step, and the step that will follow it very carefully and the result should be a brilliant elegant marvel.

[Mattlow]

Just a little observation.

I thought that getting biplane skills improved by using a couple of Roden's (Pfalz D III and Albatross D III) would be a good idea prior to actually committing the potentially sacrilegious act of starting a WNW kit was a good idea.

I now suspect that it may have been counter-productive in the sense that the engineering differences between Roden and WNW makes the former a more difficult job than the latter. So in fact the WNW may actually have improved my biplane specific skills due to the high level of engineering (meaning I didn't have to worry too much about fit and parts alignment) and left me in better stead to tackle the Roden kits which are nice but challenging in places. I know these aren't 1/48 kits but I suspect the principle is the same.

Matt

[Beardie]

Ah I am not a Roden fan, I can't get on with them, plastic too soft meaning rigging is like building a house of cards, even the CA doesn't particularly want to stick to the plastic, poly cement melts it if not used sparingly and decals explode on contact with water. For me when it comes to well engineered excellent fitting 48 scale kits which don't require higher level modelling skills it has to be Eduard. If you want awesomely detailed heavily engineered in 48 scale at the moment there is only one single kit that comes up to the level of detail and intricacy of a WNW offering and that is the Gaspatch Salmson which is just out of this world.