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The mighty France


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Hi Bob

I work with a retired Royal Navy OR-1 Warrant Officer Class 1 down in Gibraltar - he loves and appreciates all your builds and is always having a sniff round to my monitor when on the maritime forum here.

I understand your comments about shows and the speed that the public cruise buy your table - not understanding or really appreciating the many hours of work undertaken to make a masterpiece. I put on a UK Helicopter display at a show back in 2014 for the REME in Berkshire - I had 17 variations on display and I don't think anyone spent even so much as 17 seconds looking at them

Keep up the great work - the forum are your admirers

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Thanks,

I lot of the problem is that, apart from the model, there is practically zero interest in Merchant Navy ships, because they are deemed to be "unromantic.

The following was written by Frank T. Bullen in 1906, and it is as true today as it was then:

Bob

"I think it may justly be inferred that the public do not want to hear about the Mercantile Marine, are entirely indifferent to the status of its members, and are content to take all the benefits to them as they take light and air – as coming in the course of nature, with the management and production of which they have no concern.

This opinion is borne out by my experience throughout our islands as a lecturer on the subject. Talking from the platform, I can always interest my hearers in any phase of the sea without introducing the slightest element of fiction. But I cannot induce them to read the matter up, nor can I find any evidence of the subject having been studied, however cursorily, except by persons who are, or have been, directly connected with it!

This I cannot fail to lament as being, in view of the paramount importance of the subject, quite unnatural and unnecessary, more especially when I see the intense interest manifested by people of all ranks and grades of education in games such as football, cricket and bridge, and the amount of earnest thought expended upon acquiring information concerning them, not only in their present, but in their past history.

Moreover, I know personally working men who have lavished upon horse racing an amount of brain-power that, legitimately applied would have made them a fortune!"

Frank T Bullen 1906

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The Skipper on my Coaster, 'Jigger' Jarvis was sunk three times on convoys in WWII, reckoned he saw thebomb that blew up his third swim, as it went down the funnel - the whole wheelhouse ended up in the Briney. He was pretty deaf when I served under him. Remarkable bloke.

F

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Yes, I suppose so, just a few cruise ships & tankers now! But I still wonder why hardly anyone builds models of merchant ships of the 50s & 60s.

Bob

I have plans to try to build one or two - when I can find plans of the ships!

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There are lots of them in books! Sailing ships:

The David R MacGregor series (Merchant Sailing Ships)

Last of the Windjammers by Basil Lubbock Volumes I & II

Schooner Sunset by Douglas Bennet

Steamers

The Steam Collier Fleets by MaCrae & Waine.

British Ocean Tramps, Vos I & II by PN Thomas

Steam Coaster by CV Waine

All the above books may be found on http://www.bookfinder.com or ordered from UK libraries

Most of the plans of merchant ships after WWII have survived:

Glasgow Business Archives

Mitchell Library Glasgow

Tyne & Wear maritime museum

National Maritime Museum, but sadly they charge too much (usually well over £100 for a set of plans of a steamer!)

Bob

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Forgot to mention:

Deepwater Sail by Harold A Underhill.

It contains lots of plans of sailing ships, including plans of the France, from which I built this model!

Merchant sailing ships, incidentally, are far easier to build than steamers!

Bob

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Steamers

The Steam Collier Fleets by MaCrae & Waine.

British Ocean Tramps, Vos I & II by PN Thomas

Steam Coaster by CV Waine

All the above books may be found on http://www.bookfinder.com or ordered from UK libraries

Bob

Thanks Bob.

Being awkward, it's the steamers that really interest me. I think you may have mentioned the books above before, and I did look on Amazon at the time, & they were all too pricey for me to be honest. I must admit it's been so long since I used a library that I'd forgotten all about trying to order through them. I shall visit our local one when I get time (if it's still there that is.....) Not tried bookfinder either, shall have a look on there too.

keith

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Small steamers are easy enough, such as colliers and coasters, but large cargo ships and passenger liners get rather complicated with all the boats, multiple decks, deck machinery, gurad rails, windows etc. More info about building all types of ship on my website viewed via my profile here.

I did produce a large A4-size book, Model Shipbuilding 2015, that was published on the 7th May this year, but is has already sold out!

Bob

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I completely forgot about getting your book Bob - I did manage to get the e-book though! Hopefully if the book generated that much interest, then more models may be getting built?

It is the small everyday working ships like the colliers & coasters that really do get my interest. I remembered after posting last night that I did buy a book on building 1/1200 scale merchant ship models off e-bay. There are plans for two nice tramps in there, but 1/1200 is a wee bit small for my eyes these days, so I'll have to get the plans enlarged a bit!

K

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I know the books you mean, they are by John Bowen. The plans enlarge very well and I have used a number of them for larger models. Depending on which of my downloads you have, most of them contain plans as well!

The schooner Minnie is the first model I have built for ages now, but it is very small. I don't have the energy to build bigger ones these days, but small ones are easy enough.

Bob

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Hello Bob, after your suggestion (in a post elsewhere) as to where I could get plans for a ship, I contacted the Mitchell Library in Glasgow and they helped me out with plans for SS Montrose. I am not sure if I selected correctly, they led me to a list of 7 or 8 plan numbers and I picked one (the descriptions on the website did not really go into detail as to what was contained in each plan), and have ended up with a plan about 12 feet long! I will see if I can check out some of your other suggestions above and see how I get on, and have something a bit more manageable.

I will see also if I can download one of your e-books this weekend, as I would REALLY like to do something along these lines. I did do a scratchbuild ship (warship) a few years ago and ended up with this:

mkg6yx.jpg

It was based on a paper model, but I built it in plastic, and only used a few bits from leftovers of kits and photoetch, but the vast majority, including the railings, was built from scratch.

Hope you don't mind me posting this, but you are really inspiring me at least to give this a go.

All the best,

Ray

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Ray,

Your model looks great. I shouldn't think you would have any trouble with a miniature. The plan you need of the Montrose is called a General Arrangement Plan Also known as a GA plan. They usually have profile and details of all decks. If you want the hull shape, you need the Lines Plan, sometimes known as the Sheer Plan. Most of the museums only sell copies of plans in large format (presumably so they can charge more).

Bob

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Very nice work you do Bob.

The France is no exception, what ever the source used its the finish that counts.

You seemed in the past to turn them out very smartly.

Foxy :coolio:

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Not all that long ago, I was building about 14 a year. I am still physically capable of building them, but have grown quite weary of it late. I know very few people who build model merchant ships these days, although a few years ago, they were quite popular. Consequently I have no-one to compare notes with on techniques etc. Kits have virtually taken over the modelling world, but I do not have the money, space, time or patience to move over to kits. I quite enjoyed building the 87-ton schooner Minnie, but will probably have a rest now!

Bob

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One great shame is how much was lost during WWII due to shipyards being prime targets. MacGregors books are a good source of plans of sailing merchant vessels. All of his drawings are now in the museum in Bristol and are available, at least for viewing. I have plans to do a 19th century schooner called 'Victoria'. I'd really like to get back over to Guernsey again sometime as there were a lot of fine ships built there including the clipper 'Golden Horn'. I also have gathered enough photos, coupled with my memory to try to reconstruct my old ship ' Ile de Serk'..

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I built the Victoria some years ago (See below) using the MacGregor plans. I thought it was a splendid model. I sent it to a maritime auctioneers, where it sold for a very low price on the third attempt. When I deducted delivery expenses, commission etc, my profit for the building time came to half a pence per hour! My biggest disaster ever!

Bob

1838_Victoria_Large.jpg

1838_Victoria_Large.jpg

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