Airfix 1/48 Spitfire Vb to Vc?

[GMK]

Any thoughts on the Ali Cat Vc conversion? Tried (& dismally failed) using the MDC conversion on the Tamiya kit....would like a better result this time around.

[tonyot]

Here is one that I did last year;

First the WIP;

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966915-alley-cat-spitfire-mkvc-conversion-for-new-airfix-spit-mkvb-kit-148th-scale/?hl=%2Bairfix+%2Bspitfire

And the finished model;

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234967594-new-airfix-48th-scale-spitfire-vb-kit-converted-to-mkvc-using-alley-cat-wings/?hl=%2Bairfix+%2Bspitfire

And I`ve got another one on the go at the moment. Personally I like the conversion a lot,

Cheers

Tony

[GMK]

Tony,

Thanks for that - very nice job on both of those.

Edit: just realised you've got some Special Hobby goodness in there too.

Greg

[Fernando]

Hi, all,

The conversion I feel it is wanting is "a correct fuselage" to go with both the SH and Tamiya wings (not that difficult, they are close relatives). SH wings are not that great, but many modellers have several of those kits in the stash; and they can be coerced into fitting. Tamiya´s (for making Vbs, of course) have some shape issues, but easily correctable. With an accurate fuselage, both would render a good model. When the Hasegawa IX was issued, Aeroclub immediately answered with an excellent, corrected fuselage. Surprising that no-one has dared make them.

Fernando

Edited June 9, 2015 by Fernando

[Troy Smith]

The Special Hobby and Tamiya fuselages are similar, but not the same.

Both are short, and thus have the wings too far back, but the Tamiya is fat. This can be corrected with some work.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968337-two-148-mkvb-spitfires-tamiya-and-airfix-new-spitfire-collection-expansion-project-finished-photos-now-in-the-rfi-section-080615/page-3

The SH fuse is short, but not fat, it needs a 1.5 mm splice in the fuel tank, and a 1mm splice at the rear transport tail/fuselage joint. The more important job is the fuel tank splice, as this then moves the leading edge forward, allowing the correct wing position.

details

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968126-148-airfix-seafire-xv/page-2

note the SH Seafire have same problem, hence the link. I have sat down with plans and the various kits

The Hase fuselage was very difficult to correct, as was both to short and too slim.

A cheap solution if you don't want to try to correct the SH kit, is to graft on wings from an ICM IX, as these can be got for less than the Alleycat conversion.

It all depends on wht kits you have. and how much work you want to do.

Personally, the work involved in adding the Alleycat wings to the Airfix VB plus cost, I'd go for correcting the SH Vc kit ( same kits also boxed by Eduard and Italeri BTW)

Many ways to skin this cat, but none are straight forward unfortunately.

HTH

T

[GMK]

Excellent, detailed responses - thanks!

So, if I'm reading this correctly, from an accuracy perspective, the ranking is:

Airfix + Alleycat

Airfix + ICM (!)

Special hobby

Tamiya + SH wings.

Great solutions. Nice to have options.

Greg

[Troy Smith]

Excellent, detailed responses - thanks!

So, if I'm reading this correctly, from an accuracy perspective, the ranking is:

Airfix + Alleycat

Airfix + ICM (!)

Special hobby

Tamiya + SH wings.

Great solutions. Nice to have options.

Greg

HI Greg

"it depends" on.....

How accurate do you want, what kits do you have, how much do you want to spend, and how good are your modelling skills?

Simplest, If you can deal with a limited run kit, (so test fit, trim and shim), the SH Vc is well detailed. Correcting the fuselage IMO is about as much work as some of the Vb plus wing grafts.

As the kit is Vc, includes some etch, and has several boxings with decent and interesting decals (eg Malta, RAAF) this is worth considering. Even without corrections it's better shaped Spitfire than the Tamiya kit.

Adding an accurate c wing to the Airfix Vb will give a very accurate model.

The c wing could be the Alleycat resin, or a Mk IXc wing, with the radiator section modified to take the oil cooler, that wing could be ICM, or Hasegawa IX (has inaccurate fuselage) or a spare Eduard c wing, some of the Eduard boxings kits have a spare wing. You'd want to fill the Eduard wing rivets or rivet the donor fuselage to get it to match.

Alternately you could add a single stage Merlin nose and prop to a Mk IXc kit, and adjust the radiator.

If you can cut, fill and rescribe, you could convert the b wing to c wing, various kits and aftermarket have the c wing bulged access panels, which you would graft in, and then remove under wing bulge and rescribe panel lines, adding new ejector slot, and small underwing bulge.

If you already have an Airfix Vb, this is not a bad idea, if it goes right, job done, if it goes wrong, then get a new wing. More work than a wing graft, but cheaper, and if it works, very satisfying.

The only one that's not worth the bother is Tamiya + SH wings, as the Tamiya fuselage is inaccurate. I'd just correct the SH fuselage instead.

What there isn't is an OOB accurate Vc kit.

HTH

[Fernando]

Hi, Troy,

What I have done in several models (not necessarily Vcs, but also Seafires and PRs) is cutting the single-stage Merlin noses (both SH and Tamiya) at the firewall and grafting them into (correct, either Aeroclub or ICM) IX fuselages, keeping the wing root leading edges, and then adapting the wings (both SH and Tamiya) to them. That renders nice models; they even look "longish".

Another correction proposed involved a "double L-shaped" cut, both extending the nose forward of the fuel tank and the rear fuselage back of the karman fairing. It looks complex.

I think (and have made some comparisons to the plans in SAMI books -not the most accurate, I know-, to the old Airfix and to the new one) that the SH nose, from wing leading edge forward, is not short (it may even be just a tad long). The fuel tank, when compared to the Eduard IX, is not short either in any relevant amount. Therefore, you could just coerce the wing forward and possibly extend the rear fuselage (though the difference would be probably just one or two millimeters); besides, moving the wing forward would create the illusion of a longer rear fuselage, correcting it at least visually. Therefore, you could just cut and extend the nose at the firewall, taking the wing leading edge and the wing forward.

Anyway, a good fuselage to mate to either SH or Tamiya wings would be a real blessing.

FErnando

[Troy Smith]

Hi, Troy,

What I have done in several models (not necessarily Vcs, but also Seafires and PRs) is cutting the single-stage Merlin noses (both SH and Tamiya) at the firewall and grafting them into (correct, either Aeroclub or ICM) IX fuselages, keeping the wing root leading edges, and then adapting the wings (both SH and Tamiya) to them. That renders nice models; they even look "longish".

you can. Still as much work as adding a spacer to SH fuselage though and needs another kit.

Another correction proposed involved a "double L-shaped" cut, both extending the nose forward of the fuel tank and the rear fuselage back of the karman fairing. It looks complex.

yes, described in one of the links I posted

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968126-148-airfix-seafire-xv/page-3#entry1758558

It's wrong. This thread covers all the main points. The main one in this case, the relationship between the cockpit and wing fillet on the SH kit is correct. The proposed modification changes this, so it's wrong.

I think (and have made some comparisons to the plans in SAMI books -not the most accurate, I know-, to the old Airfix and to the new one) that the SH nose, from wing leading edge forward, is not short (it may even be just a tad long). The fuel tank, when compared to the Eduard IX, is not short either in any relevant amount. Therefore, you could just coerce the wing forward and possibly extend the rear fuselage (though the difference would be probably just one or two millimeters); besides, moving the wing forward would create the illusion of a longer rear fuselage, correcting it at least visually. Therefore, you could just cut and extend the nose at the firewall, taking the wing leading edge and the wing forward.

Again, discussed, at length, with photos, in the linked thread. Post #45

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968126-148-airfix-seafire-xv/page-3

I'll just quote this bit, but the whole thread needs reading.

Airfix top pale grey

SH lower. note position of nose and wing leading edges.

here's they are lined up undersides, note the distortion on the lens [the grid lines should be straight], and the pencil line where is you wanted to add a 1mm splice to the front, where I'd put it.

I pencilled in the panel lines on the Airfix to make them clearer. With the carved back SH trailing edge, then look at wing leading edges on fuse, not difficult to add some thing to build up the front on the SH.

Note the lines on the mat, and how the cockpits/fillets are lined up.

Adding the spacer where the pencil line is move the wing leading edge forward, and allows the whole wing to then be moved to the right place with little work.

The fuel tank maybe the same length as the Eduard, but that just means it's the right length in the wrong place. Rescribing a panel line or two is not a huge job.

The actual shortness is in the panel between the access door and fuel tank IIRC, but adding a spacer here won't work, and won't move the wing forward and would mess with the fillet, as well as causing problem with rejoining the fuselage etc etc

Adding the splice where I show and rescribing some lines does work, and is reasonbly simple and does not destroy detail.

The SAMI drawings are not good.

The Airfix kit is from unpublished as yet Arthur Bentley drawings, and is very accurate, so can be used as a 3-d plan in confidence, but it was also compared with the Cooke, Cox and Clint drawings.

I spent a few hours working on this,and rechecking it, no one has posted anything to disprove my observation in the linked thread.

cheers

T

[Fernando]

Hi, Troy,

Do not get me wrong; I thouroughly agree with the mods you propose, and have expressed that in the thread you link to. Even the easy "less-than-perfect" solution of just forcing the wing forward will render a better looking kit; the longer fuselage aft of the wing might even visually make up for the missing 1-2 mm.

By "the relationship between the cockpit and wing fillet on the SH kit is correct" do you mean that the end of the Karman fairing in the rear fuselage is in its correct place? And by "The actual shortness is in the panel between the access door and fuel tank", do you imply that filling the rear fuel tank panel and taking it a mm forward will solve it? Don´t you think that just by "straightening" the fin/rudder boundary the lenght in the rear fuselage would be solved (added to the visual effect mentioned above)?

Actually I have in the "to-do" pile (an endless one) a SH "Malta" Spit to try the mods proposed. Certainly, they do not look more daunting than grafting the nose of a kit into the fuselage of another, not to speak about not destroying two kits.

Yours.

Fernando

[Mike M]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread!

 

Has anyone tried adding the wings from the Airfix Spitfire Vc/Seafire IIIc (Kit 5110) to the more recent Vb fuselage?

[gingerbob]

Mike, the new wings (and other parts) of that Airfix effort were dreadful.  To be honest, as a Spitfire hoarder, I sold mine on after I'd had a good look, I was that disgusted at the clumsy attempt.  Sorry if this sounds like hyperbole, but it is my personal opinion.

[Welkin]

2 hours ago, Mike M said:

Has anyone tried adding the wings from the Airfix Spitfire Vc/Seafire IIIc (Kit 5110) to the more recent Vb fuselage?

 

Ideally Airfix would do the same thing again and give us a new Vc based on their Vb with new wings, etc.

 

(But only after the new XIV)! 

[Work In Progress]

30 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

Mike, the new wings (and other parts) of that Airfix effort were dreadful.  To be honest, as a Spitfire hoarder, I sold mine on after I'd had a good look, I was that disgusted at the clumsy attempt.  Sorry if this sounds like hyperbole, but it is my personal opinion.

 

Correct though

[Seawinder]

On 6/8/2015 at 3:24 AM, GMK said:

Any thoughts on the Ali Cat Vc conversion? Tried (& dismally failed) using the MDC conversion on the Tamiya kit....would like a better result this time around.

For better or worse, I plan to do a Vc with the Tamiya kit and the MDC conversion set since I have both of them in hand. Are there potentially catastrophic pitfalls of which I should be aware?

 

Thanks,

Pip

[Seahawk]

5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Mike, the new wings (and other parts) of that Airfix effort were dreadful.  To be honest, as a Spitfire hoarder, I sold mine on after I'd had a good look, I was that disgusted at the clumsy attempt.  Sorry if this sounds like hyperbole, but it is my personal opinion.

 

No, a tad understated.  The new bits were ghastly, apparently by someone whose last job was Stonehenge.  I still have vague ambitions to coax mine into a presentable Seafire L.III some day but death may intervene.

[Plasto]

I built mine.. 

 

 

It has its detractors but builds ok.

 

The worst bit from a construction point is fairing in the tail hook insert..

 

YMMV

 

Plasto

[GMK]

16 hours ago, Seawinder said:

For better or worse, I plan to do a Vc with the Tamiya kit and the MDC conversion set since I have both of them in hand. Are there potentially catastrophic pitfalls of which I should be aware?

 

Thanks,

Pip

 

Only my inexperience with CA at the time I attempted it - flooded a join, then waited too long to sand it. But the butt joint of the wing to the kit centre section/fuselage isn't a good solution. 

[Troy Smith]

On 2017-5-31 at 16:36, Seahawk said:

 

No, a tad understated.  The new bits were ghastly, apparently by someone whose last job was Stonehenge.  I still have vague ambitions to coax mine into a presentable Seafire L.III some day but death may intervene.

 

the new wing is the right outline, and the panel lines are reasonably fine, but it's way to thick,  and blinkin' hard work to slim down! (even with heavy duty  scraper) 

I think converting the Airfix B wing to a C  would take less time than thinning the old tool  Airfix Vc/Seafire III.

 

I've not tried it, but as some boxings of the Eduard IX kit have two upperwings,  if one of those fits the Airfix Vb that halves the work of modifying the b wing,  only leaving the underside to do.

 

All the panel lines are straight, apart from  a couple of circular inspection hatches.

 

As I said earlier in the thread,  trying to convert the kit B wing is no loss proposition,  you suceed,  job done,  you  don't, then get  a conversion set or a cheap ICM IX

 

 

 

[Andrew Jones]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

 

 

 

I've not tried it, but as some boxings of the Eduard IX kit have two upperwings,  if one of those fits the Airfix Vb that halves the work of modifying the b wing,  only leaving the underside to do.

 

 

 

 

The Eduard upper wing is virtually interchangeable with the Airfix wing, almost a perfect fit.

 

Andrew

[Andrew Jones]

Found a couple of pics showing my Spitfire Vc conversion from the Airfix Vb,

You can see how close the fit of the Eduard upper wing is to the Airfix  kit, 

 

Andrew

[Seahawk]

18 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

the new wing is the right outline, and the panel lines are reasonably fine, but it's way to thick,  and blinkin' hard work to slim down! (even with heavy duty  scraper) 

I think converting the Airfix B wing to a C  would take less time than thinning the old tool  Airfix Vc/Seafire III.

 

 

And the (new) gun blisters are inaccurate.  And the (new) 4-blade prop has unconvincingly shaped blades.  And the (new) cannon have odd doughnuts around the muzzles.  I intend using various Aeroclub replacements.  There are many good and accurate bits to this kit but they nearly all have their origins in the original (ancient) Spitfire Vb kit, not in the attempted Spitfire Vc/Seafire L.III revamp.