Sky Grey Squadron codes in 1/48th? Any makers?

[neilh]

Seems that Defiant Night fighters had codes in Sky Grey before the later change to dull red ordered in January 1941. I have the CA kit but the codes are dull red and the aircraft I am modeling was in service from June 1941 so I could perhaps "get away" with red as no photos of 456 squadron Defiants seem to exist, but since the aircraft were not new and the order took some time to get through to existing aircraft in service on squadrons I suspect sky grey may be more appropriate. I've had a look on line and at Hannants etc and can find Sky codes, MSG codes but no Sky Grey. Assume that might be due to the limited use? I can try and make some stencils with frisket or Tamiya tape using the kit decals for scale but does anyone know of a decal source ( or stencils of RAF codes at a reasonable price)? Thanks.

[Tailwheel]

Could be totally wrong but I thought Sky Grey was a Navy colour MSG would be the RAF equivilant

Dave

[neilh]

According to the reference book I have they were Sky grey ( described as almost off white ).I have some generic MSG code letters and they are much more grey.

[johnd]

Sky Grey was a FAA colour but there is some archaeological evidence that it was used on the underside of some BoB fighters, presumably while the squadron in question was trying to work out how to get hold of the real Sky. This was mentioned in the Camouflage and Markings book, "The Battle for Britain", by Paul Lucas. So the RAF did have access to Sky Grey, at least.

John.

[Work In Progress]

I assume you are referring to the Ducimus booklet?

I am not aware of any good primary evidence either way for MSG or Sky Grey, since it is all down to interpretation of monochrome photography. Of course that doesn't mean that such evidence does not exist, only that I've never seen it presented.

It is hard to see any good reason for Sky Grey when it would be both operationally unhelpful and non-standard. Personally I would be using Medium Sea Grey without someone coming up with some really worthwhile evidence of the codes being different.

However, I appreciate that's not an answer to the question you actually asked. If you are committed to Sky Grey I think you are probably stuck with cutting masks or overpainting Medium Sea Grey or Sky decals.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Work In Progress

[neilh]

Yes, it was the Ducimus booklet. Currently the plan is to go MSG or I'll likely never finish it for SMW this year! Thanks for all the helpful inputs.

[dhogue]

When I did my night fighter Defiant I used masks and painted the codes. I have a stencil for RAF codes that I used. If you have to make masks from scratch it is easier to pick a squadron with codes that have more straight edge letters like T or L.

[neilh]

True. In my case it will probably be PZ- V because the intent is to model a Defiant from 456 Squadron for a club theme, and this is the only known code/serial tie up. I have MSG serials, but also have found P and enough " straight lines" in other letters of the right size in an off white colour on a Spitfire sheet from Sky. So I could try painting with stencils, using MSG or trying a chop up of the off white codes. Looks like I have a few ways to get to what I wanted.

[Edgar]

Sorry for the delay, but it took me some time to find this.

In 1939, a memo was issued, giving a list of the Air Diagrams to be used for the purposes of camouflaging aircraft. It also includes a list of the approved paints for all surfaces, including metal, wood and fabric.

Sky Grey was not given a Vocabulary Number, at that time, which means that it would not be possible for units to order it, even less stock it; the same actually applied also to Sky Blue, and even Dull Red and Dull Blue (except for fabric surfaces in the cases of the latter pair.)

As far as I'm concerned, this throws a lot of these modern-day "revelations" into question; how did units use paints they were not supposed to keep in their stores?

[neilh]

Thanks Edgar- that seems to put the cat among the pigeons! So if Sky grey was not a prescribed colour in 1939, the code letters definitely look to be a lighter colour than red, even when allowing for the issues in interpreting B&W photos. What do you suspect may have been authorised for use? Day fighters were using White codes at this time?

[Edgar]

Understandably, modellers tend to think in model terms, so, if the colour doesn't look quite right, it must be the colour that was wrong, but that's an unsafe premise.

The laid-down colour was Medium Sea Grey, and, without cast-iron evidence to the contrary, that's the colour I'd always use.

What we don't, and can never, know is how the photograph was arrived at.

Did the film go to the local chemist for processing, and was it given slightly too much development time, thereby increasing the contrast?

Was it printed with a view to publication, in which case it was normal to print it on glossy paper, which usually increases the contrast?

What grade of paper was it printed on, since they differ in contrast?

Was it printed on sepia or black & white paper?

Did the printer consider the print too dark, so cut back on the exposure time in the enlarger, to lighten it up a bit?

There are too many imponderables, in black and white photos, to make any categorical statements about colours.

[Work In Progress]

Yep, my view also. MSG unless it can be proven otherwise.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Work In Progress

[neilh]

Well thanks all. MSG is easy as I have a full sheet of Xtradecals codes in my decal stash.