Seafire MkIII from Airfix Spitfire Vb & Seafire XVII

[spitfirepr1v]

Just thinking about some FAA options and wondered about this .

Does anyone know how good the match would be in terms of actual fit ( gaps, shape etc ) to use the folding wings from the 1/48 Airfix Seafire XVII to the Airfix Spitfire Vb fuselage to start a Seafire Mk III with fold wings ?

[AntPhillips]

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234930333-airfix-148-spitfire-vcseafire-iii-ax05110/

Admittedly its the old Spitfire Vc / Seafire III kit but Airfix pretty much use the same parts breakdown in all of their 1/48 kits, I've got hold of the new Vb kit with a view to doing the same conversion using the newer kit.

[85sqn]

I cant help but I would be interested to know how this shapes up. Is there an entire spare pair of wings included in the seafire XVII kit? One for folded and one not?

[The wooksta V2.0]

Yes, which is how many people were doing the Seafire XV conversion from the Spitfire XII.

[Hook]

Is there an entire spare pair of wings included in the seafire XVII kit? One for folded and one not?

Check here:

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/Airfix_1_48_Supermarine_Seafire_F_XVII_A06102__about32011.html

Cheers,

Andre

[Jazzie]

I cant help but I would be interested to know how this shapes up. Is there an entire spare pair of wings included in the seafire XVII kit? One for folded and one not?

There are 2 sets of wings but not the radiators n the like. I purchased a resin set of those from Heritage Aviation for my XII/XVII cross-kitted XV.

However, im sure you realize the XVII wings are twin big rads with the III being rad/oil cooler. Not sure if its just a bit of filler to allow the cooler from the Vb to be fitted.

As an aside, i have the Spit Mk.I and a couple of Seafire XVIIs if you want to know if it all fits ok?

Arabest,

Geoff.

[825]

Just thinking about some FAA options and wondered about this .

Does anyone know how good the match would be in terms of actual fit ( gaps, shape etc ) to use the folding wings from the 1/48 Airfix Seafire XVII to the Airfix Spitfire Vb fuselage to start a Seafire Mk III with fold wings ?

You will need to add the strengthening plates to the fuselage as well, IIRC there is an external strengthener along the longeron, around the radio access hatch and an almighty triangular plate which I think is the arrestor hook hinge. The conversion in the link above shows them clearly.

[tonyot]

As well as swapping wings etc you`ll have to add the strengthening strakes along the fuselage below the cockpit plus the plate surrounding the radio hatch, the one on either side of the rear fuselage for the rear catapult spools, the plates just behind the engine panels for the lifting points plus the four catapult spools and of course the hook below the rear fuselage.

As mentioned you`ll have to alter the Mk.17 wings to incorporate the single radiator and the oil cooler and if you want to be picky check whether the Mk.V undercarriage legs will fit too.

Good luck,....it should be a very do able conversion and I wish you luck,

Cheers

Tony

Edit- Ah,.....just beaten to it!

PPS- It might be better to retain the lower centre section of the Mk.Vb kit, cut around the radiator and oil cooler sections and then graft the rest of the Mk.17 wings onto them, hopefully using panel lines as cutting points where you are able to? That would save you having to reprofile the area around the radiators if you just use the entire Mk.17 wings.

Edited May 31, 2015 by tonyot

[85sqn]

There are 2 sets of wings but not the radiators n the like. I purchased a resin set of those from Heritage Aviation for my XII/XVII cross-kitted XV.

However, im sure you realize the XVII wings are twin big rads with the III being rad/oil cooler. Not sure if its just a bit of filler to allow the cooler from the Vb to be fitted.

As an aside, i have the Spit Mk.I and a couple of Seafire XVIIs if you want to know if it all fits ok?

Arabest,

Geoff.

I actually have a new mk1 and I must have a spare set of wings somewhere from a MkXVII kit I built a while ago so I may dig it out and have a look myself! I also have the old MkVb/Seafire kit which has plenty of spares and the arrestor hooks etc. They can be found fairly cheaply and are quite useful for the bits and pieces included.

[spitfirepr1v]

Fantastic . Thank you all so much for the replies and help.

It would be really great if Geoff or 85 Sqn could just do a quick masking tape dry fit for us all ?

Thanks to Tony for the tips about the panel lines and the lower centre section.

I am ok with all the "extras" for the Seafire MkIII conversion having done my homework for a Seafire MkII build such as the oil cooler, strengthening, exhausts etc.

Just to add something into the discussion I am lucky and privileged to know an ex FAA 899 NAS Seafire pilot (92 years young) who flew Mk IIs and IIIs, and has given me a lot of first hand info. i.e. no catapult spools on his escort carrier based Seafires Mk III because they could not use the US style catapults plus the Seafires didn't need catapult launches and they caused drag . So watch the spools !

Don't leave the lifting spools on the fuselage as these were always removed as they caused drag of about 5mph.

500lb bombs for the Operation Dragoon invasion of S.France instead of 45 gal drop tanks - short flying times and no clipped wings as they tried them and found they hindered low deck landing speeds. ! He bailed out over the Salerno landings into the sea and was rescued . An amazing gent.

please let me know about the dry fit of the MK I fuselage and XVII wings .

thanks

Richard

[85sqn]

Okay so a quick rig up with a new MkI and the wings from a XVII and this is what it looks like:

Where the trailing edge meets the fuselage is a little differently shaped, nothing a little sanding wouldnt cure. As you can see the main upper wing join to fuselage is also slightly different. The biggest gap is on the underside where the lower wing half meets the fuselage but this part would be cut out anyway for the arrestor.

[tonyot]

Looks do-able then, cheers for providing the pictures.

Tony

[Giorgio N]

Yes, very doable. I would second Tony's suggestion of using the Mk.Vb lower centre wing section. Not that filling the radiator area is particularly difficult, I've done this before in 1/72 scale and is no big job. Will you post some WIP pictures ?

[Troy Smith]

Just thinking about some FAA options and wondered about this .

Does anyone know how good the match would be in terms of actual fit ( gaps, shape etc ) to use the folding wings from the 1/48 Airfix Seafire XVII to the Airfix Spitfire Vb fuselage to start a Seafire Mk III with fold wings ?

you`ll have to add the strengthening strakes along the fuselage below the cockpit plus the plate surrounding the radio hatch, the one on either side of the rear fuselage for the rear catapult spools, the plates just behind the engine panels for the lifting points plus the four catapult spools and of course the hook below the rear fuselage.

As mentioned you`ll have to alter the Mk.17 wings to incorporate the single radiator and the oil cooler and if you want to be picky check whether the Mk.V undercarriage legs will fit too.

While it is 'do-able' you will need a load of extras, on top of the work of adding the hook and strengthening strips,a 4 blade prop and six stack exhaust, maybe different wheel hubs.

Fine if you have a spare box of Spitfire bits, if not, then they need to be sourced.

It's worth noting here that Special Hobby do a Seafire III , and II, OOB.

The kits have some faults, and are not easy builds, but even with some corrections* and fiddling, would still be less work than than doing the above, as they have the all the above parts listed or moulded on.

They also have etch belts and IP and FAA decals.

Looking at the OP's question, if you want s Seafire III with folded wings, you might be better off cross kitting the folding Seafire XVII wing with the Seafire III kit, though it migh be easier to add the outer panels to the Seafire III wing, or just get a wing fold kit.

As with all these, depends, on what you already have, what your budget is, and what your modelling skills are like.

HTH

* the SH kits are a bit short, and need the wings moving forward a bit. Both are fairly easier fixes IMHO then the work needed to mix and match the VB and Seafire XVII parts as described above.

[spitfirepr1v]

Thanks for the great photos and time to sort it out for us 85sqn. Its disappointing that Airfix kits do not have interchangeable wing/fuselage matchability.

I assume the new Mk Vb body is the same as the Mk I ?

I agree on seeing them, Tony is right about the lower half but its folded wings for me so a challenge lies ahead one way or another.

Richard

[85sqn]

Hi guys, I have actually started this process with Airfix Vb and XVII parts and here are the results so far: 

 Looks messy and a fair bit of filler. Once its cleaned up again I'll post more. The flaps are from Tamiyas old Vb and the oil coolers/rad are from the Airfix Vb and the old Airfix Seafire. 

[Bruce Archer]

On 5/31/2015 at 12:23 PM, spitfirepr1v said:

Just thinking about some FAA options and wondered about this .

Does anyone know how good the match would be in terms of actual fit ( gaps, shape etc ) to use the folding wings from the 1/48 Airfix Seafire XVII to the Airfix Spitfire Vb fuselage to start a Seafire Mk III with fold wings ?

Hi All!

    As an alternative way to make a Seafire III, use the Hasegawa Mk.Vb fuselage with a pair of ICM Mk. 7/8/9 wings, as they fit fairly well. Fill the starboard radiator. I have used the Airfix Seafire III hook (from any of several kits), and a four blade prop. I have done a Seafire IIc, Seafire III, Seafire L.III, Seafire FR.III, and a couple of Spitfire Vcs.

 

    The Special Hobby kits are expensive, have shape errors which make them look off, and are not easy builds. I acquired 4 of these, and only built the Seafire XV, the others were not worth the effort.

 

     If you want more information e-mail me at:   bad at cfl dot rr dot com.

 

Bruce

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Bruce Archer

[Troy Smith]

11 minutes ago, Bruce Archer said:

The Special Hobby kits are expensive, have shape errors which make them look off, and are not easy builds.

 

they can be got for under £20, though I presume are more pricey in the US.    

I did get a Hase Vb a while back, and IIRC the this is what Special Hobby based their fuselage on,   not Tamiya as is so often stated.

Also, the SH kits have less shape errors than the Airfix Seafire XVII and Spit XII....

 

as I said further up

On 2/6/2015 at 13:16, Troy Smith said:

It's worth noting here that Special Hobby do a Seafire III , and II, OOB.

The kits have some faults, and are not easy builds, but even with some corrections* and fiddling, would still be less work than than doing the above, as they have the all the above parts listed or moulded on.

They also have etch belts and IP and FAA decals.

Looking at the OP's question, if you want s Seafire III with folded wings, you might be better off cross kitting the folding Seafire XVII wing with the Seafire III kit, though it migh be easier to add the outer panels to the Seafire III wing, or just get a wing fold kit.

As with all these, depends, on what you already have, what your budget is, and what your modelling skills are like.

HTH

* the SH kits are a bit short, and need the wings moving forward a bit. Both are fairly easier fixes IMHO then the work needed to mix and match the VB and Seafire XVII parts as described above.

 

the 'shape errors' are  it's 3mm short. 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1514472956/last-1514476555/(View+All+Messages+In+This+Thread)

 

Quote

And, to offer some proof. 

The top dark grey fuselage is a Special Hobby Seafire, which has had a couple of splices to make it match the lower pale grey fuselage, which is an new tool Airfix Vb, which I've not heard any complaints about for shape accuracy. Like this you can match up the SH to Airfix. 



the mispostioned wing is may 1.5mm to far back, and adding the forward splice will move the wing forward. 

Look carefully at the plastic strips, as this is carefully aligned on a cutting mat, and you can see how far back the wing trailing edge is. 

Which is why I asked about your AMS, if you are not really obsessed, forget it. It's not realy visible, maybe next to an Airfix kit if you look really hard. 


Otherwise it's some cutting and shimming. 
You need to do some work on the wing fuselage join, but none of this is really hard, as long as you can cut straight and fill neatly. 
from from 
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234984144-seafire-mk-iii-question/ 
more information on this. 

see also for more SH Spit bashing 
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968126-148-airfix-seafire-xv/ 

I spent a good while doing a load of cross referencing, with plans an actual dimensions, specifically from aSpit I through to the 21, the Firewall frame 5 to rudder post distance is the same measurement 
The length of the fuslage from frame 5 [ firewall ] to the rudder post is 245 inches full size, which is 6223mm and at 1:48th scale is 129.645833mm. 

 

 

for the less obsessed the SH kits are fine out the box, people happily build the Tamiya I/Vb kits, and they have much more serious shape errors, though they are good kits, as in they assemble very easily and fit well.

 

note,. the Airfix Seafire XVII has the Tamiya wing problem,  which means it's too wide in the centre,  it's easy enough to correct, and the separate flaps make it easier to fix the flap line.

 

 

[Grey Beema]

I have built the SH Seafire II & III even given the inaccuracies (as the Airfix Spitfire Is are down the other end of the cabinet) its difficult to compare) I don't find them particularly difficult kits to build.  Take your time, dry fit everything, maybe put some extra tabs across a few joints but they are not difficult.. 

 

Wondering if the new Airfix Spitfire MK V is so good could you graft the SH wing to that?

[85sqn]

Hi guys, I'm doing the SH one as well alongside and have lengthened the rear fuselage as per Troys tips above but I've left the forward fuselage as is. To me the fuselage looked short without comparing to anything but now the rear section is now the same length as the Airfix Vb. The other stand out item on SH kit is the rake of the under carriage, they need to come forward a little. Here's some progress photos of the SH:

 

 

[85sqn]

1 hour ago, Grey Beema said:

 

Wondering if the new Airfix Spitfire MK V is so good could you graft the SH wing to that?

I tried that dry fitting and it is a better fit on the Airfix than using the XVII wing.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Grey Beema said:

Wondering if the new Airfix Spitfire MK V is so good could you graft the SH wing to that?

 

you could, as Nick shows, but it ends up being an expensive proposition.  

 

For some reason the SH kits have had  a chorus of bad internet press,  mostly about shape issues and fit issues.

There are a few posted who trot out the same 'facts'   regardless of any contrary solutions, like mine above.

  

I spent quite some time doing some comparisons, and working out a fix,  which I have posted up details and images of, but it seems too hard, and then you get advice to do a load of cross kitting and modifications etc , which IMO  is more work.  

 

And the SH Seafire kits actually have all the right bits in the box (hooks, props, decals) and are one of the 3 1/48th  kits to get the lower cockpit sidewalls (the others  are the new tool Airfix I/Vb and Eduard Merlin 60 family)

 

There are plenty of worse Spitfire kits out there shapewise,  for example, the Airfix Spit XII and Seafire XVII actually share most of the outline errors that the always maligned Academy XIV kit is dammed for, except for the oversize nose ring.

 

I'd be very surprised if you could easily spot the SH shortness when built,   and if it really bugs you, try the above fix, and if that fails, then uses a replacement fuselage method.   Hows that for a pragmatic solution.   It's useful to have an Airfix fuselage as guide for the SHY kit though.

 

if you can cut straight,  and use some precut ever green strip to fill the front fuselage gap, it's really not a hard modification.  The tail is even easier.

the bit I have not as yet done is the adjusted wing, which moves forward, but that will be trim and shim.  And this is more work than....

2 hours ago, Bruce Archer said:

use the Hasegawa Mk.Vb fuselage with a pair of ICM Mk. 7/8/9 wings, as they fit fairly well. Fill the starboard radiator. I have used the Airfix Seafire III hook (from any of several kits), and a four blade prop.

If you oodles of Spitfire bits the maybe...if not.

 

I avoided buying a HAse Vb for a while as the internet said it "closer to 1/50th"  but I eventually picked one up cheap out of curiosity, and  IIRC the fuselage is very similar to the SH kit,  I think it has the same shortness in the cockpit/fuel tank join.

Kits not to hand so won't be later until I check if you wish, and yes, I am very guilty of not building the damn things and sitting there taping various different kits together and going slightly barmy,  but I have done this with every 1/48th Spitfire and Seafire that's not totally obsolete.

 

 

The UC leg rake Nick mentions  is interesting, bear in mind that the A/B wing have a different rake to C wing

I posted info on this in the linked thread on Vc conversions

Quote

The C wing undercarriage is raked forward 2 degrees more than the A/B wing though, and it is noticeable. 

Vb 
 

Vc 
 

from 
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966915-alley-cat-spitfire-mkvc-conversion-for-new-airfix-spit-mkvb-kit-148th-scale/ 

which is about the Alley Cat conversion. 
 

 

HTH

T

[85sqn]

Good stuff Troy. I would say the SH kit has exactly the same rake as your Vb photo above.