kolibri282 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Pointless question and probably contentious, but I was fool enough to ask it. I asked a question which in reality all comes down to personal choice at the end of the day. Some people would rather spend ages up grading a basic kit scratch building and using after market parts than buying a better quality kit in the first place. I'll do that if I have to. I'm in the process of upgrading the Airfix BV 141 with photo etch parts, but only because it's the only 1/72 scale BV 141 available. I had heard Special Hobby were producing one, but as yet it hasn't been released. I have been building models for decades with all manner of media and kit bashing. I'm not some idiot troll looking for an argument seriously . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Did you ever buy one of Airfix' more recent (new molds) kits ? Or are you posting on behalf of a competing manufacturer lol ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolibri282 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Pointless question and probably contentious, but I was fool enough to ask it. I asked a question which in reality all comes down to personal choice at the end of the day. Some people would rather spend ages up grading a basic kit scratch building and using after market parts than buying a better quality kit in the first place. I'll do that if I have to. I'm in the process of upgrading the Airfix BV 141 with photo etch parts, but only because it's the only 1/72 scale BV 141 available. I had heard Special Hobby were producing one, but as yet it hasn't been released. I have been building models for decades with all manner of media and kit bashing. I'm not some idiot troll looking for an argument seriously . And yes I focus on German WWII including Luft'46 and the secret weapons programs, as if it wasn't pretty obvious already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 And yes I focus on German WWII including Luft'46 and the secret weapons programs, as if it wasn't pretty obvious already. Thanks for telling us .. Now what does this have to do with your smear topic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomjw Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I like the way he 'liked' his own post of 1:21... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolibri282 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 To be honest the only kit(s) I'd be after by Airfix are the BV141 and Dornier Me 238 mistel ( which looks suspiciously ) like one of the Huma Me 238's). I've been scouring the internet for mostly retired kits and so far I've found 99% of them. AZ make a model of Gotha P60 Luft '46 project. I actually got one even though they stopped making them years ago, there's a different version out soon as well. This is perfect example of a pretty basic kit which is unique as a model in 1/ 72 injection molded. The wheel wells are open so I'm going to make wells from plasticard and wire to represent hydraulic piping. I've ordered three models by Brengun. The Zeppelin Rammer, BV 40 troop glder and the Bachem Natter. From all my research these kits look a bit rough, but they are somewhat unique in plastic so I'll work on them. I have the original Heller Natter so it'll be interesting to compare the two. I'm not adverse to rough kts. I have the Armagedden V1 launch ramp by Mach 2, for the price and quality it's pretty awful, but if I want a complete V1 launch ramp I'll have to deal with it. The V1's included are pretty bad as well so I tracked sown the Mac V1 and variants. I've got such a mass of diverse models of so many varying degrees of quality and size. Hopefully I will have some Cromwell models soon I ordered from Europe. A rather nice 88mm flak 41, Rhientocher missile and launcher, flak grat 40 experimental gun( huge in 1/72 scale, drawfs an 88 mm flak gun) and a sound locator from another obscure Polish model manufacturer. All these models are resin And will need a mass of work done on them to look any good. I built the 12.8 Zwilling flak guns by Attack awhile ago made from resin with aluminium gun barrels. It's what you like at the end of the day and how far you're willing to go to get a model of something. My latest venture is Enzian's launch platform and the flak garat Elizabeth radar setup, both will have to be scratch built. Enzian rocket Condor produced. I take my model building very seriously and am always open to discussion and ideas to improve my hobby. I'm not on here to cause trouble just to be part of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolibri282 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Who cares if I like my own post. I wouldn't written it if I didn't like it! Maybe it's because I'm not as savvy as you on how to post yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolibri282 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Thanks for the conversation. You made your point and that's fine. Smear topic, just as well we don't all like the same things isn't it or it would be a boring hobby wouldn't it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Whether any kit is good or bad is, to a large extent up to the person building it. My first efforts at kit building were not good and a lot of the kits themselves were not of brilliant quality, but that was in the mid sixties when bug really started to bite and I suspect that if I built a modern Airfix kit of the equivalent subject and scale, with the level of experience I had when I first started it would be dreadful. Some manufacturers have a reputation for poor quality. e.g. Merlin which people seem to latch on. Although in Merlin's case this may have had a measure of truth from my experience with their kits. To rubbish all of a manufacturers output is misleading and I think unfair, as others have pointed out all manufacturers have good and bad in their catalogues. Edited May 24, 2015 by Martin T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welkin Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Taking the 'zero choice' of the post - I have the AZ model 1:48 Vultee Vengeance - it's pretty horrible; bad plastic; badly engineered; wrong shape; but it's the only one in this scale. I could have bought the OzMOds correction(which uses everything apart from the wings - why they didn't do the wings as well and market it as a new kit, I'll never know) - but this is the only kit at 1:48 scale. Every so often, when I'm feeling masochistic, I take it out, hack at it for a while, and then put it away again - one day I am determined to finish it, although what the end result will be it's hard to say! Isn't modelling fun! Edited May 24, 2015 by Welkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewfl290 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) I don't think it's ridiculous to avoid manufacturers, we all have free will and it's up to us. I avoid buying certain things out of principle and it doesn't really matter what the principle is, it can be something quite personal and unimportant but it is important to me. However things don't stay the same....ever and to me it appears as if the OP has not done his research as to where Airfix stands today, but, hey ho, he is entitled to his opinion no matter how ridiculous his statement appears to me. Edited May 24, 2015 by andrewfl290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Hmm well I would like to welcome Kolibri to Britmodeller. Airfix is a very sensitive subject to say the least and I guess that, as a newbie he maybe didn't realise this. Airfix like all others do have good and bad and I do personally have a gripe with them asking "todays" prices for what are very much "yesterdays" molds. In an ideal world I would love to see them re-work their entire back catalogue and bring them into the modern world or reduce the price for kits from the old molds. It doesn't do the company image any good to those who didn't grow up with the brand as a pillar of their modelling world and these "newbies" are bound to feel ripped off if they buy, for example, a superbly fitting Eduard Weekend edition Fokker DR.1 complete with fancy stick on fabric seat belts for less than £10 delivered and then buy an airfix Hawker fury for £14. We all say things which don't sit well with others when we enter a new place but I think we should all give the fellow a chance and not hound him back out the door for having the temerity to ask for opinions and invite debate (very sweeping and offensive to some as it may be). 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Wwwoooaahhhh guys! What happened here? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernotH Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Trying to make a positive contribution to this thread (no dog in this fight, but my own rueful memories aplenty): The larger the gaps between one's expectations, one's abilities/skillsets & (time and other) resources available to one, and the quality of the manufactured kit is, the worse the kit seems. Not to mention one's knowledge of the subject (more often than not this issue only comes to the fore once the model is seen by others, hehe). Luckily, humans' ability to adapt and change is quite extraordinary, and apart from the quality of the manufactured kit, the other 3 variables are entirely open to change. Thus the oft-voiced advice to leave a kit and move on to something else more appropriate to one's current circumstances.... that is what the Shelf of Doom is there for. Edited May 24, 2015 by GernotH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejboyd5 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 One's characterization of a kit as "rubbish" probably varies depending upon the skills brought to the table. While challenging, there are several Mach 2 kits I'm very glad to have had as they formed a basis for a model I would otherwise not have made short of total scratch building. If one is looking for the perfect fit, easy to assemble kit there are many presently available, but at large prices. Personally, I'm very happy with the old Airfix, Frog, etc., and doing the best I can to produce replicas of aircraft that interest me and do not seem to be in the mainstream of today's tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolibri282 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 I'm not a troll Ced.B. I'm a fanatical model maker like the rest of the people on this forum. It was just a comment you know. If I was at a model meet it wouldn't have been so awkward I guess as I've had these discussions with other modelers and it's never descended into argument or heated debate. I just feel that from my personal experience over the years that some( not all) models that were good enough once upon a time just don't come up to today's standards. I will site the case of the Heinkel 177. Sure I built the Airfix version more than once over the years because at the time it was the only version of that plane in any scale available( it may have been available in vacform) at the time. At the time I knew no better about detail and quality moldings so it was ok, but a few years ago Revell released two different versions of the He 177 which(even professional reviewers in model mags said) knocked the Airfix kit out of the ball park for detail and quality. As I remember it it was reasonably priced for the amount of kit you got as well. They decals were far superior as well. Once upon a time we didn't have the molding techniques we have today. I recently bought the Ju88 Bomber and Ju88 nightbomber by Revell. I was stunned by the cockpit detail and mass of parts for such a small plane. The decals were incredible as well. A lot of reviewers in well known publications have noted how modern day mold techniques have left a lot of old favourites in their wake. I know about repackaging from Revell, Italeri etc. I fell prey to this when I bought the Revell He219, for some reason I was under the impression it was the old Dragon Golden wings model( probably because Revell have reboxed a few of that Dragon series) on opening the box I found what appeared to be the old Frog kit. I kept the decals. Model companies have moved on so much. As I collect and build the more bizarre and obscure( as well as well known) I wondered where people stood on the short run European kits ( such as Huma, Special Hobby, Extratech etc) and up to date highly detailed kits. I was always under the impression we model builders were in search of better detail in the models we built, the fact that a lot of modern day models are so detailed should be the modeler's dream realized. After building a Dragon 1/72 Arado 234 there's no way I could build a Matchbox or Linberg version. How do you prove you're not a troll anyway? You really don't get this hassle at model meets, the down side of social media I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewfl290 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 ....ever and to me it appears as if the OP has not done his research as to where Airfix stands today, but, hey ho, he is entitled to his opinion no matter how ridiculous his statement appears to me. Oops, I didn't mean for that to sound quite as it does, it sounded rather different as I formulated the statement in my head in that I may think that something may sound ridiculous to me but may or may not to others and that it doesn't really matter as we are all entitled to our own opinion. I do think that the OP is in error in that he has not taken into account that Airfix have upped their game considerably and while they might not have the finesse of Tamiya I think they are without doubt towards the top of the pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) ....then perhaps if you hadn't started off by calling the thread "Awful Model kits to avoid..." and saying "Airfix are rubbish" (and on a par with Mach 2...) in the first post, but instead asked for people's views on what the better kits available of Luft '46 stuff were, you wouldn't have got "this hassle", as you put it... Ignoring, say, a state of the art 1/48 Javelin or Sea Vixen because it comes from Airfix really would be cutting off your nose to spite your face... bestest, M. (to address the point more directly, if the only 1/24 kit of an Alfa Romeo 159 Alfetta that doesn't cost £250+ is a Smer reissue of a Merit kit from the 1950s, then you're going to buy it, 'cos the alternative is starting from scratch.) Edited May 24, 2015 by cmatthewbacon 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Isn't model building a strange business? Unlike any other product bought on the high street the model kit doesn't have to be in "perfect working order and fit for purpose" as we all have our own definitions of what a kit should be. If they fell together out of the box with just glue and paint being necessary some would be over the moon but on the other hand those who prefer a challenge of varying extremes would be thoroughly fed up. We also seem to develop very strong loyalties to particular brands as well. For me it was a struggle to see past Eduard on coming back to modelling as these were the first kits I started build (WWI 1/48 bi-planes) and I had many memories of unsatisfactory builds of airfix kits as a kid ( the detail was never enough and I didn't have the skills to iron out all the wrinkles that a good modeller has). As I am beginning to break out of the box of WWI modelling I am finding much admiration for kits by a lot of other makers (Including Airfix although their is not a lot to choose from in their 1/48 range) but there are still some old kits lurking around in the wild sort of masquerading as new until you look inside and find the product of 30-40 year old molds which are showing their age. I think most manufacturers are equally guilty of putting out product that is disappointing by modern standards and perhaps it would be a nice touch if the product of these old molds was perhaps sold under a "classic" labelling of some sort to let the buyer know just what is inside the box without having to troll (Used in the fishing and not the internet sense ) through reviews to find out what lies within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Ramsden Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 What a warm, welcoming and friendly environment this is ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 ^^ The problem was caused by the OP saying Airfix (generally) is crap, just a reminder and to put things into perspective and proportions. He bases his condemnation basically on a single kit namely the He 177 where it was clear that there is a better alternative nowadays, no wonder if one takes into account that the Airfix is around 50 years old. That's a little like bad political (- social engineerering) tactics, hmmm I guess you know what I mean lol ... Of course he ignores that the modern tool Airfix kits are well up to common standard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 What a warm, welcoming and friendly environment this is ..... I can't imagine with an opening post like that the OP truly could have expected much else, but let's keep a little perspective here Ivor, he's been called a troll, there haven't been any death threats yet This actually is a friendly and welcoming environment (visit some of the other forums if you don't believe me), but coming in shooting your mouth off without offering proof or a reasoned argument in support is a great way of getting people's backs up from the outset. Which, of course, he did. Cheers, Stew 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockster Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I think we're being a bit unfair on this guy, it's a reasonable question and his OP seemed fair considering the discussions we have along similar lines. Trolling didn't spring to mind when I read it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Well I'm totally nonplussed. Until now I thought a troll was a squash faced doll from Sweden. No, hang on that's that bloke from Abba I'm thinking of... To contribute to the thread proper, all the manufacturers have their own desperate kits within their ranges and most have some superb kits. QED. Nige B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Coombs Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 A good 10 years or so ago, I was presented with a couple of Zhengdefu kits and had to think of a tactful way of disposing of them some time later. The gift was well-intentioned. The kits as such were blobs of injected plastic, parts short-shot in some places and flashed into unrecognisability in others. Supposedly smooth surfaces (such as wings) had nicks and lumps out of them and in parts looked as if they'd been attacked with a wire brush. Transparencies were a breach of the Trade Descriptions Act. I would say they were bad kits. Reading online reviews of other Zhengdefu product led me to avoid them from then on. Otherwise, it's hard for me to name a consistently awful manufacturer. I've been building models for over 40 years and appreciate that the wonderkit of my youth doesn't cut the mustard today. Sometimes the oldies are the only game in town - I'm still waiting for Revell to repop the Matchbox Siskin and P-12. Airfix was pilloried by the OP, but Hornby-era kits have generally been gems, and I am developing a sneaking admiration for the company policy (I hope it really is a policy) of giving 21st century reworks to types first kitted half-a-century or so ago - Gloster Gladiator, Folland Gnat, Bristol Blenheim, and Hawker Harrier spring to mind. I've said this before on another thread, but sometimes I'm a modeller, sometimes an assembler, and sometimes a mangler of plastic. Most kit manufacturers give me the option of which one I will be at a given time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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