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Mark

1/32 RAF/RN Phantom

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But aren't the intakes wider in the K & M ? I would certainly be up for a decent pair of nozzeles - and of course you only need one master!

Cheers

Simon

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But aren't the intakes wider in the K & M ? I would certainly be up for a decent pair of nozzeles - and of course you only need one master!

Cheers

Simon

Indeed they are. But, the fuselage tapers to blend into the wider intakes, so an insert to the intakes should sort that out, and a wedge would sort out the fuselage. This is all a part of the "hacking" job required ( there is of course more to hack about, I.e. the lower fuselage etc., ) all can be tackled by plastic card and milliput. It's the nozzles that are causing me problems. Maybe a vacform shell could form the core....hmmmm

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Indeed they are. But, the fuselage tapers to blend into the wider intakes, so an insert to the intakes should sort that out, and a wedge would sort out the fuselage. This is all a part of the "hacking" job required ( there is of course more to hack about, I.e. the lower fuselage etc., ) all can be tackled by plastic card and milliput. It's the nozzles that are causing me problems. Maybe a vacform shell could form the core....hmmmm

Reminds me of the article in Scale Models back in the 1970's about how to convert the 'original' Revell Phantom- we don't know we're born!!

Simon

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Reminds me of the article in Scale Models back in the 1970's about how to convert the 'original' Revell Phantom- we don't know we're born!!

Simon

If it's the one I'm thinking of, the intakes were left alone?

Trevor

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If it's the one I'm thinking of, the intakes were left alone?

Trevor

I think you are right Trevor, but in the day it looked great!

Simon

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i"m with you...I can happily hack the Tamiya kit apart and rebuild it, but it is the Spey nozzles that has stopped me as well..........well..there's two of us!!

That makes three.

While Ali is no doubt correct on the numbers for a full all singing and dancing conversion I wonder if anyone might look at doing the tricky parts while leaving it up to good old fashioned modelling skill to do the rest. I suspect a few exhaust sets etc would sell no problem

I see Bentwaters has talked with him and the concern was that a straw poll indicated issues around margins. I can see the financial risk but I wonder if he had thought of the crowdfunding route. Work out the costs and identify unit cost plus profit and see who would fund up front on a fixed price basis. Contract done, deposit taken and manufacture. One suspects there would be enough nutters like me keen modellers anxious to have a 1/32 FGR1/2 that a limited run would work.

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If it's the one I'm thinking of, the intakes were left alone?

Trevor

I think the intakes were widened and the Spey cans were the kits originals wrapped in plastic card. Was this the one that was presented to 111Sqn?

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Looks like several of us are stalling over the nozzles, heartening that I'm not the only one. Ali needs to come to our aid!

There is a build over on ARC where the nozzles are being done in CAD for printing, wonder if the modeller would be willing to go into production?

If not is anyone else versed in the dark art of CAD who can put something together?

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Looks like several of us are stalling over the nozzles, heartening that I'm not the only one. Ali needs to come to our aid!

There is a build over on ARC where the nozzles are being done in CAD for printing, wonder if the modeller would be willing to go into production?

If not is anyone else versed in the dark art of CAD who can put something together?

Yes I saw that, and had thought about using the cans from Hasegawa's kit and seeing if they'd scale up. I may have a look at costs to get them done commercially and see if it's viable....

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I think the intakes were widened and the Spey cans were the kits originals wrapped in plastic card. Was this the one that was presented to 111Sqn?

Right, I've got the September 1976 issue in front of me. Article by T Perry, finished in 17 Squadron markings. Drop tanks were by a company called Tandair. Matra pods from Revell Harrier. You are right about the Spey cans being made from the J79 can first covered in putty, rubbed down, shortened and then wrapped with card. No mention of the intakes being widened though.

Back to reality - yes I would happily have a pair of Spey cans as well!

Simon

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Even if someone did a basic Vac form fuselage for a Brit Phantom it would suit me!

Yep, I hear you! A bit of Vac form fun never hurt anyone - I'm thinking making my own A-12 Avenger in Vac, just for the hell of it (and because the kits in 1:48th are rare as hen's teeth). A Brit Phantom conversion could be done a number of ways, from a FULL fuselage replacement (lots of re-engraving) at one end of the spectrum, to a intake and rear lower fuselage replacment (ie, sides that either fit OVER the existing sides and new intakes or cut the sides out, replace them with new sides/intakes, keeping the spine in place - then a lower rear fuselage part )... While 1/32 isn't my thing, that would be fun!

Base it on the J-kit and you can use the Kit Cockpit, Canopy, Wheel Wells, Gear, Wings, etc... Then all yoiu need is those exhausts, that could be mastered on a lathe and cast in resin.

D

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Yep, I hear you! A bit of Vac form fun never hurt anyone - I'm thinking making my own A-12 Avenger in Vac, just for the hell of it (and because the kits in 1:48th are rare as hen's teeth). A Brit Phantom conversion could be done a number of ways, from a FULL fuselage replacement (lots of re-engraving) at one end of the spectrum, to a intake and rear lower fuselage replacment (ie, sides that either fit OVER the existing sides and new intakes or cut the sides out, replace them with new sides/intakes, keeping the spine in place - then a lower rear fuselage part )... While 1/32 isn't my thing, that would be fun!

Base it on the J-kit and you can use the Kit Cockpit, Canopy, Wheel Wells, Gear, Wings, etc... Then all yoiu need is those exhausts, that could be mastered on a lathe and cast in resin.

D

Thinking about it (and admittedly not knowing the breakdown of the F4J kit) I would just look at a vac form fuselage from the intakes backwards, perhaps two sides and a bottom panel? for ease of construction.

The only resin/cast/ printed bit really required would be the jet nozzles (or perhaps optionally the intake ducts) the donor kit would supply almost everything else.

Selwyn

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Why are we baulking at the expected cost of around US$250 (£165) when Tamiya's 1/32 Mosquito at £125 is flying off the shelves?!

Remember that the original White Hare / Meteor or whatever it was called sold out prior to manufacture. I believe there is a real cause for crowd funding here. Kickstarter style.

If Marillion can do it with their albums, then I'm sure that a dedicated and skilled after market manufacturer can get the support needed up front for a good 1/32 FGR.2 / FG.1.

Mel, Ali, are you listening?? ;)

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Yes I saw that, and had thought about using the cans from Hasegawa's kit and seeing if they'd scale up. I may have a look at costs to get them done commercially and see if it's viable....

Bill

I suspect a few like me would happily add an order to reduce unit cost for you!

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Have a search for Frank Mitchell's how to do it article on Large Scale Planes. (Tamiya F-4J into Spey Phantom). It's a great tutorial, very nicely copied by Angelo (HL-10) a couple of years ago on BM. (I'd post the links if I wasn't using my phone).

It's a fair bit of work, but very possible to do, if you follow the footsteps of others!

Edit: HERE

Edited by Brokenedge

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Have a search for Frank Mitchell's how to do it article on Large Scale Planes. (Tamiya F-4J into Spey Phantom). It's a great tutorial, very nicely copied by Angelo (HL-10) a couple of years ago on BM. (I'd post the links if I wasn't using my phone).

It's a fair bit of work, but very possible to do, if you follow the footsteps of others!

Edit: HERE

In Frank's original build, which must go back a good ten years ago plus, he made the mistake of widening the whole of the lower wing to extend the width of the rear fuselage to take the wider Spey cans. He missed the taper of this area, so the wing span was too wide. His later build(s) corrected this and can be regarded as being a great tutorial...

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Mel's comments were you need to change the fuselage, the tail, the u/c, the cockpit, and a few other bits as well. With the way the Tamiya breaks down, I suppose you could hack bits out to the wing and fuselage, but realistically those two major components need to be replaced. If only Tamiya could be persuaded to re issue the kit with different parts. A new sprue with nozzles and the RWR and you're done.

Now I wonder of the Chinese Knock off companies might be interested.............. :shutup:

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i"m with you...I can happily hack the Tamiya kit apart and rebuild it, but it is the Spey nozzles that has stopped me as well..........well..there's two of us!!

Check with Canuck Models. He is currently building a Spey Phantom and I think he cast the nozzles.

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Hi everyone

As some others in this thread had noted, I'm working on a personal build with a work in progress thread here - http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=285216This project started life as a conversion kit along the lines of the wild-hare conversion out a few years ago. I was working on the masters, and making some good progress and things looked positive. I then approached some resin casting companies, those that would even be willing to take on a project of this scope were coming back with quotes that just made it impossible for me to move forward with a conversion. Each set would have been hitting the $350 CAD mark (this was over 5 years ago, it's likely over $400 CAD now). It seemed there was little chance for me to even break even so the masters lay around in a box for a couple of years and then I just decided to build it up as a personal build.

That all said though, I received a couple of emails last night regarding the SPEY exhausts I'm working on for this build. These are 3D printed by Shapeways and I would be happy to make some additional prints available for those that want to cover the cost. Right now they're coming in around $20 USD each ($40 base price for the pair + shipping etc...) for the highest detail print.

A few caveats though. These are not done in a true CAD software package. I do all my modelling in 3D Studio, a software tool designed for game and film modelling. These are dimensionally accurate but because these types of models rely on polygons to create rounded surfaces (and any other shape), you have some faceting on the outer wall that needs to be sanded smooth. This really isn't a big deal. A little 400 paper and some primer and you'll never notice that. The other thing to consider is that they're designed around my research for dimensions - cm: 3.23 x / 3.23 y / 1.35 z . Those with detailed measurements of the real thing might find inaccuracies, but these fit my build and seem to be close to scaled up Hasegawa parts. And finally, some portions of my file are below shapeways' minimum wall specifications. As near as I can tell, they still print just fine (as you can see) but it wouldn't be something I could guarantee would work for every single print. As the old idiom goes - 'You pays your money and you take your chances'.

Prototype print on top of the Tamiya parts. This was my first attempt a producing a 3d model for printing and my first print. The purpose of the exercise was to see if anything would even work. All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the first efforts and then spent time to improve the model and add the previously omitted details.

Dsc_2323_zps3mdnvngr.jpg

Updated 3D file with more detail added and corrections made after seeing the prototype.

3d.rev2_zpsd0ilprui.jpg

I hope that helps with some questions but always chime in if you have others.

thanks

David

Edited by DavidWinter

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I really should find time to play with the 0.1mm 3D Printer at work - too busy with other stuff though (like work)! As for crowd sourcing/funding, well if the amount raised would cover my current income from Newy Uni and etc, for say 4-6 months (and two Kits), I'd happily give mastering up a vacuumform conversion a go (and learn how to model for the 3D printers down the hall from my research lab)... But realistically, thats a LOT of money!

D

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Thinking about it (and admittedly not knowing the breakdown of the F4J kit) I would just look at a vac form fuselage from the intakes backwards, perhaps two sides and a bottom panel? for ease of construction.

The only resin/cast/ printed bit really required would be the jet nozzles (or perhaps optionally the intake ducts) the donor kit would supply almost everything else.

Selwyn

Yeah I was thinking of retaining as MUCH of the F-4J Spine as possible for strength and rigidty (one of those issues many have with Vac's); even possibly slipping vacuum formed sections OVER the 'nacelles' on the F-4J Kit..

Further scribbles and procrastination suggests we'd need (for this plan):

a)Vacuum formed Nacelles that would fit over the existing plastic (and may need to be cut in at the rear) - and fit 'over' could help us avoid cutting the wing.

b)Vacuum formed Intake (using the Kit inner wall) and possibly trunks too.

c)Vacuum formed Lower rear fuselage (from Sparrow reccess, back).

d)Resin Cast, 3D Printed or Lathe Mastered Exhausts

e)Resin Cast Splitter plates with PE Boundary Layer.

and maybe:

f)Resin replacement cockpit panels and periscope.

If you wanted to do an RN FG.1, you'd need a new fuel dump and oleo extension . And if you really wanted to go to town, Resin Rear Fuselage Grills and Aux Doors... But the Vast bulk would likely be 2mm Vacuum formed Styrene and some milliput depending on how good your dry fitting skills are, around the fuselage nacelle joins and wing root.

Do you guys have ANY idea how tempting it is to go buy two or three F-4J's right now and just quit work for 6 months, hahahahaaaa (yeah work is grinding me down at the moment too)

Dan

Edited by Zaggy

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Spare a thought for us more mentally challenged modellers....I'll be starting a 1/24th Combat Models F-4, (multi version but not RF or FG.1/FGR.2 sadly), next year and this will be finished as an FGR.2 with working lights, strobes, sound pack, dropped flaps/slats, the lot.....no luxury of a base kit and a bit of hacking here and there ! Having said that I always think it's a lot easier starting from scratch as it were, especially with what is basically a vac shell. All intake and fuselage dimensions will be taken by me from museum aircraft, (such as the FGR.2 forward fuselage at my local Newark for the intakes and cockpit details).The nozzles are the least of my worries but they will be built up from Ali tubing and plastic card/strip inners.......anyway more of that nearer the time, the moulds have now been hand finished in the U.S. and should be with me for Telford.....

As for a tiddly 1/32nd scale jobby...well, it's long overdue.....

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Way to go General. Will that be after the Bucc is finished? :whistle:

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