Denford Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 14 hours ago, WhirlybirdModels said: We have a correct BEA Dragonfly in development at the minute. This will not just be a rebox of our HR3, but properly modified to represent the version. Hopefully out in November. Dave @ Whirlybird Any chance of an RAF/RN version? Earlier posts say their differences are quite marked and conversions not easy. That said I'm hard put, from the above photos, to see much difference..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Denford said: Any chance of an RAF/RN version? Earlier posts say their differences are quite marked and conversions not easy. That said I'm hard put, from the above photos, to see much difference..... Whirlybirds already produce a v. nice HR3 that has af full resin cockpit, u/c and detail parts and etch with an extremely nice decal sheet. As long as you are happy working with the acetate fuselage it's very good, no conversion required unless you want to make WS.51 (Dragonfly 1A). Edited February 4, 2017 by The Tomohawk Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Denford said: That said I'm hard put, from the above photos, to see much difference..... Different canopy glazing arrangement, completley different rear fuselage, the exhaust arrangement and grillage are all distinctively different too as well as the rotor blades. Compare the two photos below: Thomo. Edited February 4, 2017 by The Tomohawk Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Thanks for this. Like a conjurer's trick, easy to understand once it's pointed out! Would hope, some day, to build RAF HC4 of 194 Squadron. Have recollection and maybe even have photo of one visiting our unit early 1955. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Denford said: Thanks for this. Like a conjurer's trick, easy to understand once it's pointed out! Would hope, some day, to build RAF HC4 of 194 Squadron. Have recollection and maybe even have photo of one visiting our unit early 1955. Good on you. Do your research on the HC4, whilst there was only a handfull built (well just over a handfull, 12 in fact). There were a number of subtle differences from the HR 3, not least the canopy glazing which was more akin to the WS.51. I also seen some a couple of photos purporting to be HC4's XF 260 and XF 261, which look suspiciously like S-51's to me but given they were stationed and pictured at RAF Sculthorpe in the mid-fifties, they could well be S-51s in RAF markings. I thought the HC4's of 194 had been replaced by Sycamores by 1955, but hey ho what do I know. Thomo. Edited February 4, 2017 by The Tomohawk Kid Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 3 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said: I thought the HC4's of 194 had been replaced by Sycamores by 1955, but hey ho what do I know. Thomo. Not by 1955: the one (and I think I only ever saw one) was April - May 1956. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 G-AJOV still partially in BEA livery after disposal by the aforementioned airline - I assume as photographed it was owned by Autair? Thomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, The Tomohawk Kid said: I assume as photographed it was owned by Autair? All the surviving BEA S.51's went to Autair. After BEA, G-AJOV was registered to Ronald Myhill, co-founder of Autair; and then to another of his companies, Overseas Aviation Ltd, before being exported to Canada in May 57. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 19 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: All the surviving BEA S.51's went to Autair. After BEA, G-AJOV was registered to Ronald Myhill, co-founder of Autair; and then to another of his companies, Overseas Aviation Ltd, before being exported to Canada in May 57. Very interesting, thanks. G-AJOV as a flying bill board, post BEA days - it must have made flying the machine interesting! Thomo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootneck Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 There are some good detailed views within our Walkaround Section albeit they are of the military style glazing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Just to add to the condrum: Westland-Sikorsky WS-51 Mk.1A Civil transport helicopter powered by a 520 hp (388 kW) Alvis Leonides 521/1 radial piston engine. Built by Westland in the United Kingdom, 36 built. Westland-Sikorsky WS-51 Mk.1B Civil transport helicopter powered by a 450 hp (336 kW) Pratt & Whitney R-985 Wasp Junior B4 radial piston engine, 15 built. Thomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) The above image purports to be a Westland HC4 Dragonfly at RAF Sculthorpe in the mid-ninteen-fifties. It raises more question than answers. The HC4 Dragonfly was based on the RN's HR3 which would have a completely different rear fuselage to accomodate the stretcher stowage, given the HC4 was a designated evac machine one would have though that would have been a prerequiste, this image shows rear fuselage in configuration more akin to the S-51 or WS.51 (1a). However, there is clearly a westland modification (the boxed vent) on the lower starboard side of the fuselage. This is the only image I have seen with a roundel on the rear of the fuselage. US Machines routinely had the the stars and bars in that location, curious or what? Thomo. Edited February 5, 2017 by The Tomohawk Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 On 04/02/2017 at 9:20 AM, The Tomohawk Kid said: The WS.51s used for postal operation had the rear seats removed and a net installed behind the pilots sea Just for clarity, all 4 of the BEA Dragonfly's were Sikorsky built S51's C/N 5117 (G-AJHW) C/N 5132 (G-AJOR) C/N 5135 (G-AJOV) C/N 5128 (G-AKCU) not Westland built WS51's which all had construction numbers prefixed WA/H/ Interestingly, WA/H/1 was a WS51 series 2 (Widgeon) not a WS51series 1a or 1b (Dragonfly)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: Just for clarity, all 4 of the BEA Dragonfly's were Sikorsky built S51's Correct. However, they were re-engined with the Alvis Leonides 521/1 when they arrived at Westlands. Thomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) Former BEA machine G-AJHW on advertising duties in Switzerland during 1953. Thomo. Edited February 6, 2017 by The Tomohawk Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) On 05/02/2017 at 0:14 PM, The Tomohawk Kid said: The above image purports to be a Westland HC4 Dragonfly at RAF Sculthorpe in the mid-ninteen-fifties. It raises more question than answers. The HC4 Dragonfly was based on the RN's HR3 which would have a completely different rear fuselage to accomodate the stretcher stowage, given the HC4 was a designated evac machine one would have though that would have been a prerequiste, this image shows rear fuselage in configuration more akin to the S-51 or WS.51 (1a). However, there is clearly a westland modification (the boxed vent) on the lower starboard side of the fuselage. This is the only image I have seen with a roundel on the rear of the fuselage. US Machines routinely had the the stars and bars in that location, curious or what? Thomo. That batch of HC4s are curious, they were ordered late and XF260 and XF261 are listed as being on the Central Flying School Helicopter Development Flight, first at Middle Wallop then South Cerney. I suspect they were ordered for that purpose. Google only has one photo of XF260 But there is a little about the unit in the Little Rissington book, and a picture of one of them, showing the rear fuselage roundel on a camouflaged aircraft:https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uPLNAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT187&lpg=PT187&dq=xf260+dragonfly&source=bl&ots=CNA1fBayAe&sig=uQAnBafkiBqgHUqbMNMIHQcTXpc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPnLqH4vvRAhVkJcAKHVeeBxUQ6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=xf260 dragonfly&f=false Edited February 6, 2017 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 1 hour ago, WhirlybirdModels said: It is a possibility we are looking at. We are getting some test shots done to see how well it works out. Dave @ Whirlybird Happy to test it for you:-) Seriously, I'm looking forward to it and should open up a cornucopica of opportunities. Thomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 38 minutes ago, Dave Fleming said: That batch of HC4s are curious, they were ordered late and XF260 and XF261 are listed as being on the Central Flying School Helicopter Development Flight, first at Middle Wallop then South Cerney. I suspect they were ordered for that purpose. Google only has one photo of XF260 Curiouser and coriouser, indeed. Is the B-45 in the background the real clue? HC4s are always quoted (and maybe wrongly so, as HR3s with all metal blades) that along with images I have posted of so called HC4s, are most defintaley NOT a HR3 configuration. Thomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) Another shot of G-AJOV as a flying bill board, at Luton I believe, unless anyone can tell me different. Thomo. Edited February 6, 2017 by The Tomohawk Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Purportedly a HC4 at Sculthorpe in 1954, what that strange 'merican machine in the background? Thomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 11 minutes ago, The Tomohawk Kid said: Purportedly a HC4 at Sculthorpe in 1954, what that strange 'merican machine in the background? Thomo. B66. XE261 again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 15 minutes ago, Dave Fleming said: B66. XE261 again Correctomudo! Thomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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