North American FJ-3 Fury in 1/48th scale- Hmmm

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Hi all - just researching an upcoming project here.

So I have read Tommy Thomasons excellent blogs on the -3, and have managed to get hold of the old Esci FJ2/ 3 model. I have a good idea of whats needed to batter it into submission, but- Im just wondering if anyone else has ever tried it?

It would be good to hear from anyone thats attempted the fixes...

Jonners

[Harold]

Hi all - just researching an upcoming project here.

So I have read Tommy Thomasons excellent blogs on the -3, and have managed to get hold of the old Esci FJ2/ 3 model. I have a good idea of whats needed to batter it into submission, but- Im just wondering if anyone else has ever tried it?

It would be good to hear from anyone thats attempted the fixes...

Jonners

It is their F-86 with F-J2/3 deckles.

You do it as one of the prototypes.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Harold

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

hi Harald - I know the model best represents the prototype. I was just wondering if anyone had done a "cut & shut" job on the fuselage to deepen the forward depth on the -3.

It's next up on the bench - so was just looking for anyone that's actually done it ( there's an old ARC thread which I've seen but it stops dead, so there's no real trail as such)

cheers

jonners

[tc2324]

It is their F-86 with F-J2/3 deckles.

That statement`s not quite true. There are some differences in the two kits.

Now I can`t really admit to `battering` the FJ-2/3 into shape, but I did try to convert an F-86 kit into an FJ-2/3.

Here`s how that little adventure turned out........,

As you can see, from a distance, it`s not a bad representation and was ideal until I got my hands on the esci kit.

Close up inspection is another story.

Although I `kitbashed` them into shape from the F-86 kit, I got the fuel tanks size utterly wrong which was no surprise really....,

The intakes are completely different.....,

I tried to also modify the pylons which again turned out to be incorrect.....,

....... and as you can see in this last picture, the cockpit canopy is different. The rail slopes down towards the front and the ejection seat higher than the F-86 to give the pilot a better view on approach to the carrier.

I added the leading edges wing strakes, refuelling probe, the mid fuselage intakes and created new gun ports up front.

I tried my best to see if you could make a Fury from a Sabre and while it was a great learning curve, ultimately the esci kit is the way to go.

Hopefully another manufacturer will pull their thumb out their bottom and releases a new kit at some point.

Probably no help what so ever to you really I`m afraid, but your definitely not alone in trying to make this type.

[Harold]

Yes, they did do the wing panel lines more like the Fury, the nose gear is longer (If I remember correctly). The canopy has the "dip" and the tail hook has an insert for it. Plus the goodies for under the wings were changed.

Otherwise, it is still an F-86.

I used the Esci wings, nose gear and hook insert on this conversion on an old Momogram F-86 about 20 years ago.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Harold

[Tailspin Turtle]

I think it's doable. Also see http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2015/04/esci-148th-fj-23.html

[tc2324]

I think it's doable. Also see http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2015/04/esci-148th-fj-23.html

Nice link/s.

[gingerbob]

Hi Jon, I haven't done it, but I've got an ESCI kit, a Hobby Boss FJ-4, and some evil intentions, so I'd be happy to put heads together (not "knock heads") with you on this one!

bob

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Hi Jon, I haven't done it, but I've got an ESCI kit, a Hobby Boss FJ-4, and some evil intentions, so I'd be happy to put heads together (not "knock heads") with you on this one!

bob

HI Bob - that sounds good. I've made a start - so will post where I'm at later.

Jonners

[Tailspin Turtle]

HI Bob - that sounds good. I've made a start - so will post where I'm at later.

Jonners

Hi Jon, I haven't done it, but I've got an ESCI kit, a Hobby Boss FJ-4, and some evil intentions, so I'd be happy to put heads together (not "knock heads") with you on this one!

bob

That has possibilities. The FJ-4's forward fuselage (about to where the sliding canopy interface with the fuselage changes angle), windscreen, and lower fuselage are pretty close to the FJ-3's. (The FJ-4's wing and main landing gear are completely different as is the empennage.) Theoretically, you could combine the forward and lower fuselage of the FJ-4 with the upper fuselage of the FJ-3 aft of the sliding canopy break and the FJ-3's empennage (the horizontal stabilizer might be undersized), wing (if it's not too far off), and landing gear. The ESCI sliding canopy still has to be reduced in height.

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

That has possibilities. The FJ-4's forward fuselage (about to where the sliding canopy interface with the fuselage changes angle), windscreen, and lower fuselage are pretty close to the FJ-3's. (The FJ-4's wing and main landing gear are completely different as is the empennage.) Theoretically, you could combine the forward and lower fuselage of the FJ-4 with the upper fuselage of the FJ-3 aft of the sliding canopy break and the FJ-3's empennage (the horizontal stabilizer might be undersized), wing (if it's not too far off), and landing gear. The ESCI sliding canopy still has to be reduced in height.

The Esci FJ also needs to have its 2-cannon panel inserts moved forwards, as well as angling down. I'm still pondering the rudder & fin, but tomorrow will be be canopy investigation time.

I have been busy today but will try and start the WIP.

Jonners

[Tailspin Turtle]

The Esci FJ also needs to have its 2-cannon panel inserts moved forwards, as well as angling down. I'm still pondering the rudder & fin, but tomorrow will be be canopy investigation time.

I have been busy today but will try and start the WIP.

Jonners

I forgot that the FJ-4 cannon did not angle down as much as the FJ-3 cannon, which proved to be angled down too much for air-to-air accuracy. The feasibility of a mash up of the FJ-4 and the Esci "FJ-2/3" also depends on the accuracy of the shape and size of the kits. I don't have either one so I can't comment on that.

Another thought is to add an F-86 to the mix if the Esci aft fuselage is not accurate (it looks a little undersized in height but that could be a distortion created by the camera). Note that the basic shape of the F-86 aft fuselage is the same although the fuselage join is vertical, not canted. The vertical fin also has to be moved forward and the horizontal stabilizer enlarged. The F-86 sliding canopy section also looks like it could be modified to be an FJ-2/3 canopy.

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Thanks Tommy!

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234981173-north-american-fj-3-fury-148th-esci-with-added-elbow-grease/

Is the new home for the build - so please take a trip over and have a look at what's happening.

Jonners

[Harold]

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=126887&hl=fj-3%20conversion&st=0

[gingerbob]

For comparison's sake, here are the intake rings from a Hasegawa Sabre, the ESCI Fury, and the Grand Phoenix FJ-4: (EDIT: I think that the FJ-4 sides should be approximately parallel, not tapering narrower toward the bottom. Now I'll have to find a shot of the Hobby Boss part!)

The ESCI fuselage and the Hasegawa fuselage agree surprisingly well (better than they actually should...)

EDIT: The ESCI wing sweep is very close to the Revellogram F-86D, which makes it too swept.

A casual comparison suggests that the Dog Sabre fin and dorsal fillet might be useful, should one happen to have one surplus. Also, the ESCI canopy (which has the "break" a la FJ-2/3) seems, on first glance, to fit the canopy angle of the FJ-4 pretty well, though I didn't try it with both fuselage halves to check width.

So much for the immediate quick and dirty comparisons!

bob

Edited May 6, 2015 by gingerbob

[Tailspin Turtle]

For comparison's sake, here are the intake rings from a Hasegawa Sabre, the ESCI Fury, and the Grand Phoenix FJ-4: (EDIT: I think that the FJ-4 sides should be approximately parallel, not tapering narrower toward the bottom. Now I'll have to find a shot of the Hobby Boss part!)

The ESCI fuselage and the Hasegawa fuselage agree surprisingly well (better than they actually should...)

The ESCI wing sweep is very close to Hasegawa's, which makes it about right.

A casual comparison suggests that the Dog Sabre fin and dorsal fillet might be useful, should one happen to have one surplus. Also, the ESCI canopy (which has the "break" a la FJ-2/3) seems, on first glance, to fit the canopy angle of the FJ-4 pretty well, though I didn't try it with both fuselage halves to check width.

So much for the immediate quick and dirty comparisons!

bob

Bob,

Very helpful. I've added pictures of the actual inlets to kit inlet comparison for an illustration in my post on the Esci kit: http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2015/04/esci-148th-fj-23.html

[jpk]

Hi all - just researching an upcoming project here.

So I have read Tommy Thomasons excellent blogs on the -3, and have managed to get hold of the old Esci FJ2/ 3 model. I have a good idea of whats needed to batter it into submission, but- Im just wondering if anyone else has ever tried it?

It would be good to hear from anyone thats attempted the fixes...

Jonners

Hello Jon. I have been interested in building a FJ-3 Fury for many years dating back as far as the late 80's early 90's. When I first found out ESCI actually had a 1/48 lit of the Fury I bought it straight away. Man was I disappointed in that fuselage. From what limited research material I had at the time, mainly a Squadron book on the F-86 which had some info on the Fury and the Fury In Action book by the same, I was relieved to see they at least got everything else pretty much ok. I set about kit bashing with the old Monogram F-86 fuselage and it never looked right. I finally after a long while settled on the Matchbox FJ-4B fuselage which seemed to me to be the better option but with some surgery. The major problem being the canopy. Anyway I gave a description over on Tommy's blog about what I did. Good luck on your build.

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Hello Jon. I have been interested in building a FJ-3 Fury for many years dating back as far as the late 80's early 90's. When I first found out ESCI actually had a 1/48 lit of the Fury I bought it straight away. Man was I disappointed in that fuselage. From what limited research material I had at the time, mainly a Squadron book on the F-86 which had some info on the Fury and the Fury In Action book by the same, I was relieved to see they at least got everything else pretty much ok. I set about kit bashing with the old Monogram F-86 fuselage and it never looked right. I finally after a long while settled on the Matchbox FJ-4B fuselage which seemed to me to be the better option but with some surgery. The major problem being the canopy. Anyway I gave a description over on Tommy's blog about what I did. Good luck on your build.

Hi Jon - thanks for this - read your comments on Tommy's blog with great interest

You mention the FJ rear fuselage being beefier than the 86's - is that wider and deeper then?

cheers

jonners

[gingerbob]

Please note that I have edited my earlier posting- upon re-check, I found that (as I had ORIGINALLY determined ) the ESCI wing is swept almost exactly like the Dog Sabre kit's, which makes it too much so, per Jennings' analysis on Hyperscale.

Whether it is something one cares to fix, of course, is another matter, I'm just reporting information.

bob

[jpk]

Hi Jon - thanks for this - read your comments on Tommy's blog with great interest

You mention the FJ rear fuselage being beefier than the 86's - is that wider and deeper then?

cheers

jonners

I would have to say look at photos of the two aircraft in that area. It is hard to describe. Since you have the ESCI kit, it is 99% their Sabre kit. The only compromise they made was for the Fury's canopy frame with those little cutouts. If you can pick up a Grand Phoenix FJ-4B cheap or even at the going rate, compare the two you will understand the difference. Or maybe if you have a Hasegawa or Academy Sabre and compare. It is subtle but there. The Hobby Boss FJ-4 has slightly different lines in that area and are not as accurate as the Grand Phoenix kit. However the HB kit is less fiddly to build but since you're just using the GP fuselage that's not much of a problem. I would very much encourage you to use the GP kit instead of chopping up the ESCI Fury fuselage. It will still not look right after all the effort. The canopy will be the most difficult part to create but you can do it using the GP windscreen and a Sabre bubble.

In reviewing what I've said in the reply I will make an addition. The area on the rear of the Fury's fuselage, where the taper begins for where the horizontal stabs mount to the rear empennage, that area is thicker and blends into the fuselage structure in a beefier and rounder way. The Sabre's same area is less substantial and has sharper lines. Again try to compare from photos and you'll see what I mean.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Jon Krol