Air-to-Air Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Thank you for the input gentlemen. David, special thanks for sharing that image of your F-4J, it looks very classy. I'll never get tired of looking at that image. Ryan, starting with the canopies is a good suggestion. I'm still looking more closely at the cockpit layout to see whether any improvements can be made there. Jens, special thanks for your input. I think your suggestion of joining the lower fuselage/wing parts was brilliant. It would get rid of all the flex beneath the intakes and allow the lower intake tunnel to be cleaned up before attaching the intakes. John, I'm hoping the pre-fitting helps. If I make things too complicated for myself though things could head south. And on to tonight's update. So things have been stripped down a bit. A couple of PJ Productions' 80s Pilots decided to take a seat. Surprisingly, the rear seater appears to have a view but the canopies are off at the moment. The pilot looks to be sitting too high. Now it's time for Spot the Difference... Pilot and Rear Seater were sent for liposuction to get their heads aligned more naturally with the head-box. They were then sent for lumbar surgery so that their shoulder blades rested comfortably on their seats. The deadliest part of this F-4. Have to get the canopies on again to see whether some more fine tuning is required. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Nice attention to detail, it will all add up in the end! David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thanks David. It's been a long evening of test fitting once more, still in respect of the pilot's and rear seater's seating position. The following is pretty close to the final configuration. The rear ejection seat could probably go up another 0.010 of an inch. I had to remove the seats and move them forward a couple of millimetres as they were not sitting correctly within the "window" of the canopy in profile. The temporary frames are just clear tape coloured with a black permanent marker, cut to size and affixed on the inside of the canopies. The pilot had more liposuction as he was sitting too high. Both crew members now need to have their legs reconfigured slightly so that they do not foul the instrument panels. Then there's the small task of positioning their arms HOTAS. I think I'll swap out the rear seater's head. I like the gaze out of the canopy but it's altogether too casual without an oxygen mask. The canopy pieces have all been cleaned up but there are still some gaps. I am okay with filling the one around the windscreen on both sides but the long, large gap beneath the pilot's canopy on the starboard side is perplexing. I need to get the bottom edge of the canopies to line up as one. This looks about right now, apart from the piddle-poor size of the rear seater's instrument panel which I am reasonably sure fills almost the entire field of view on the actual aircraft. But as this is out of the box I can only work with what I have been given. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 3rd Placer Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Shim the front with plastic card, then start sanding slooooowly. From your pics the fit isn't that bad, a little card/sanding should get it very tight. This is why I suggested gluing them up first, then you can adust the whole part and not individual pieces. Start at the top then work down.....if the radius canopy tops are good then its a snap to adjust the flat lower surfaces. You'll get it sorted i'm sure. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks Ryan, I will be following that good advice in the not too distant future. Just a quick update tonight. The work continued apace last week. I was busy fettling a resin pilot when I asked myself, "What's the point of carefully fettling the pilot into this test built seat before it has actually been painted and assembled?" The first priority became clear: get the ejection seats painted and assembled. Here's a stage that probably most of us enjoy, ready for primer. It took some time to get here. The sinks on the front of the parachute were filled, as were the ejection pin marks on the rear of the seat back and the internal sides of the seat frame. The seat frames were enhanced by thinning the sides of the seat frame, as they looked out of scale to me. The face curtain handles (not pictured) were also cleaned up and a more realistic droop achieved by heating them over an inverted ice cream scoop using steam. It's been educational to see the different approaches people have taken to assembling their kits. It's certainly given me more confidence to progress a number of major assemblies whilst continuing to test fit and refine subsequent assemblies. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hi Rob, I'm impressed with your approach to this build. I have a few (sight understatement) of the Hasegawa kits in 1/72 and appear to live fairly close to you (I'm in Newcastle), so if there's anything I can help with as your build progresses, please let me know. cheers, Andrew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thank you Andrew, that's very kind of you to offer. Judging from your profile it would appear we both enjoy aircraft in the one true scale. That said, the Academy 1/48 Phantom does look very appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I know that you plan to put Sparrows and Sidewinders on the model, but that is not a real load for this plane. If anything, they don't carry weapons. Occasionally, they have an AAM3 training round but that is all. At least that saves you having to straighten out the poor resin! I saw this plane in 2009 and use it as my avatar here. Nice memories 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Red Dot, you make a good point. I've just spent an hour looking for images of armed F-4EJs with little success. The ones I did manage to find were armed with either one training AAM-3 or one training AIM-9L/M, the latter as recently as 2012. The vast majority of images were of unarmed aircraft. Whilst it would be interesting to do the AAM-3, all my usual sources (with affordable delivery) of the Hasegawa JASDF Aircraft Weapons set are out of stock at the moment. Therefore, using what is to hand, I think I will do 1x training AIM-9L/M. It will be based on the photo reference I have found. Source: Wikimedia, courtesy of Toshiro Aoki (www.jp-spotters.com), 30 October 2012. I hope I do the 8Sp Black Special justice, I am certainly making the effort to. Red Dot, thank you for your input. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 I haven't had much to post this last week. But that's not for lack of effort. Some time was devoted to setting up my painting station as this is the first build I've undertaken since moving house in February. I also took an interest in the Tornado tribute Group Build (Tornado STGB II A tribute GB). The Tonka's on my bucket list and as I've been learning a lot in this group build, I thought a Tornado group build would be the way to go for my first Tornado. The only problem: the dates were set for 7 June to 30 August - a significant overlap with this fine group build. What to do? Well, where there's a will, there's a way. And on this occasion, it will be achieved through "economies of scale" as, in keeping with what I am working on over here, I will be modelling this in the Tornado Group Build: The progress on the F-4EJ Kai has not been photo worthy: I primed the ejection seats and then made a number of small corrections. They will get their base coat this week. Several hours were spent getting the central fuel tank into shape. It is still going to need some filler to make it presentable. I am in the process of attaching the main gear doors as this bird will be in-flight. I will post a couple of images when that is done. I spent several hours today finalising the colour selections I want to use throughout the build. I am yet to purchase what I have selected, but I will do so in the next few days. Hopefully, there will be something more photo worthy over the course of the next week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Just a brief update...because I know you like them. The ejection seats got their second coat of primer this evening - ready for the base coat! I used decanted Tamiya Fine Surface Primer to prime the parts. I find it makes a real mess of the airbrush. I've had to strip it down and give it a full clean on each occasion I have used decanted Tamiya primer. Does anyone else have this problem? I ordered my paint supplies today. They'll arrive in the next two days. As mentioned previously, I have been working on closing up the main gear doors. There are three parts to the doors and they are inherently unstable when dry fitted together. I decided to approach the assembly in stages allowing sufficient drying time between the addition of each door. I started with the central main door. Given the instability of these parts, I left nothing to chance. I drilled four holes in the wheel well and used short lengths of plastic rod to support each corner of the door. Very small adjustments were made until the door fit reasonably well. The plane of the door relative to the wing was also carefully checked from every angle to ensure it was aligned with the wing. Then it was cemented in place. Here is the final result. It looks good enough in the image above but there's always a lesson to be learned. On this occasion, it was that there needs to be as little a gap as possible between the door and the wing. Tamiya Extra Thin Cement is terrific at melting plastic but not so great at filling gaps. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Tamiya Extra Thin Cement is terrific at melting plastic but not so great at filling gaps. Sad, but true. With small gaps I tend to use: CA glue if I need to rework on them, or Perfect Plastic Putty if I only need to paint over. As for the primer: I'm sticking with Vallejo grey primer, diluted with Future (I'd say 25% Future, 75 % primer). Not turning back. Nice progress, by the way; I'm looking forward to how this Hase kit turns out with wheels up! Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 3rd Placer Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) That's a good install on that panel. I'd dilute Tamiya Surface Primer (the one available in a bottle) with Testors liquid glue, then brush into the seam. http://www.tamiyausa.com/items/paints-finishes-60/finishing-supplies-62000/liquid-surface-primer-40ml-87096 Same thing I'm doing for these panels, works well and dries fast. Still need to flush sand the lower panel in this shot. image by The 3rd Placer, on Flickr Ryan Edited May 18, 2015 by The 3rd Placer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 3rd Placer Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) ""I used decanted Tamiya Fine Surface Primer to prime the parts. I find it makes a real mess of the airbrush. I've had to strip it down and give it a full clean on each occasion I have used decanted Tamiya primer. Does anyone else have this problem?"" This (if your talking about the bottle stuff) is not for AB use...even though it says Surface Primer, I find it is a pin point paint brush applied medium. You cant go wrong with the aerosol Tamiya spray cans, it dries very tight to the surface with no detail loss...even out of a spray can. The only drawback is the cost. No real reason to decant the Tamiya spray primers, they are that good. Ryan Edited May 18, 2015 by The 3rd Placer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Nice work mate! I did the same on my phantom but did not achieve a result as good as that, at least the gear doors fit well compared to just about every other 1/72 model I have found I tried decanting tamiya primer too (never been able to apply a light amount directly from the aerosol), instead I have found Mr.Surfacer 1200 decanted into the airbrush with some Mr.Color thinner added gives a very light coat that keeps the details and lasts ages. Then I buff up the primer with some cotton cloth, making a very smooth, bullet proof, thin satin finish ready for paint. David. Edited May 18, 2015 by mirageiv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Lovely work Rob. Great use of the rod to support the doors and match the level of the wing undersurface. I'm looking forward to your next instalments. Andrew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Thank you for the input gentlemen. Just a quick check in to let you know that I am still progressing things. Due to my inexperience with the airbrush, I have been procrastinating of sorts on getting started on the ejection seats. I bit the bullet earlier this evening and laid down some gloss enamel. It went okay for my first session with an enamel. Last week I figured I would get started on joining the wings so that I can then finalise test fitting of the fuselage. That necessitated refitting the centreline fuel tank and weapons stations before those areas become inaccessible. None of them tightly conformed to the fuselage so that needed some work. The pimple attachment points were replaced with stronger larger diameter styrene. I am in the process of filling the panel lines on the weapons stations with CA as they are too trenchlike. The only problem I've been experiencing is that the CA seems to shrink quite a bit as it dries so what was a nice filled panel line ends up being a slightly less deeper panel line. If anyone has a suggestion other than the obvious - use more CA - I'd appreciate hearing about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I am in the process of filling the panel lines on the weapons stations with CA as they are too trenchlike. The only problem I've been experiencing is that the CA seems to shrink quite a bit as it dries so what was a nice filled panel line ends up being a slightly less deeper panel line. If anyone has a suggestion other than the obvious - use more CA - I'd appreciate hearing about it. Not sure if you can use this on the kind of seams you are going to tackle, but when I want to have a quick, good filling I mix CA with talc powder. It drys very fast and you can play with the consistence of it by adding more or less powder; I haven't noticed any shrinking, nonetheless I suggest a test on a scrap piece. HTH Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Not sure if you can use this on the kind of seams you are going to tackle, but when I want to have a quick, good filling I mix CA with talc powder. It drys very fast and you can play with the consistence of it by adding more or less powder; I haven't noticed any shrinking, nonetheless I suggest a test on a scrap piece. HTH Ciao Thanks for the tip. Once the CA/talc is dry, does it permit the rescribing of fine panel lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I've only tried small segments, but it does. As a matter of fact, it becomes a pretty resistant surface, that can be sanded/polished just after a few minutes you applied it. Don't wait to much (i.e overnight) because it gets really hard. Again, I strongly recommend testing it before you hit the actual piece. Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Whilst I haven't reached the end of a stage as such, I think it's time for an update because it has been a while. When I fixed the vanes to the pylons, I did so in situ so that the vanes were as flush with the wing as possible. Each vane "piece" comprised a vane on the left and right side of the pylon. I found it necessary to cut the vane pieces in half, in order to get a flush fit between each vane and the pylon. Tamiya Extra Thin was used to fix the vanes and the aluminium foil was to prevent the whole assembly from becoming prematurely attached. The pylons got some industrial strength mounts. These will be like Lego at the end of the build, click fit! I spent a bit of time getting these as flush as possible with the wing. Taking a look at the photo I should probably revisit these as they don't look as flush as they were before the vanes went on. Next up, after wrenching a number of hours on a rather untidy centreline fuel tank, it was time for the final test fit before priming. All carefully lined up... And from another angle...all looks good. And then we get to this...one of those real WTF! moments. It's not a centreline fuel tank it's an off-centreline fuel tank. What happened next? Well, the camera battery died so there's no work in progress to show but I can show you the outcome... The end was cut off, rotated slightly and reaffixed with a 0.75mm spacer to fill in the saw cut and sanding required to get the parts aligned. (I'm beginning to see that there'd be some value in a mini mitre box and a mini bench drill press to do this kind of work with more precision - is this modelling madness?) The end result... Once the spacer is cleaned up, blended in and primed this will look a lot better. Work continues on the ejection seats. The seat frames have been airbrushed gloss black. The seat, back and head box were handpainted. This is very much a work in progress. Other side... My favourite part thus far: the Alclad transparent green over Stainless Steel base (with gloss clear protective coat). A bit to report but nothing really ready for inspection at this stage. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Great surgery going on here! And I like the idea of the gloss black on the seat frames , although you're probably going going to dull it out some way, aren't you? As for "I spent a bit of time getting these as flush as possible with the wing. Taking a look at the photo I should probably revisit these as they don't look as flush as they were before the vanes went on": I'm afraid you're right, when I did researches for my build, I found and article (can't remember where right now) mentioning exactly that. They're not supposed to sit flush with the wing. Although, at this scale, the difference is going to be hardly noticeable ... Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Nice work Rob! The pylon joints look pretty darn perfect to my eyes. Good fix with the centreline tank, I have not even checked the fit on mine! I will go see if it causes the same problem as yours. Look forward to more of your super accurate modelling. David. Edit, there is a slight gap between the plates and the airframe here; http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/f-4e_details/images/f-4e_details_08_of_72.jpg http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/f-4e_68-0380_kurnass_323/images/f-4e_68-0380_kurnass_323_6_of_7.jpg In 1/72 the very slight gap you have will probably be well in scale. Edited June 4, 2015 by mirageiv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 And I like the idea of the gloss black on the seat frames , although you're probably going going to dull it out some way, aren't you? Yes. The gloss black was just a base for the Alclad detail painting. The seat frames will be dulled down before they are finished. I'm afraid you're right, when I did researches for my build, I found and article (can't remember where right now) mentioning exactly that. They're not supposed to sit flush with the wing. Although, at this scale, the difference is going to be hardly noticeable ... Thanks Giemme. Now that I've had a look at the photos provided by David, I see what you mean. Edit, there is a slight gap between the plates and the airframe here; http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/f-4e_details/images/f-4e_details_08_of_72.jpg http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/f-4e_68-0380_kurnass_323/images/f-4e_68-0380_kurnass_323_6_of_7.jpg In 1/72 the very slight gap you have will probably be well in scale. Thanks David. I could see some form of gap between the vanes and the wing surface in a couple of the photos I had, but nothing as clear as the links that you have provided. Good fix with the centreline tank, I have not even checked the fit on mine! I will go see if it causes the same problem as yours. Chances are the problems I had with the centreline fuel tank are a one-off. The rear mounting point on mine was all twisted out of the box suggesting it had suffered a bump after moulding or some pressure from the other sprues after boxing. The one in my other kit F-4EJ Kai kit was not twisted, I just didn't want to use that one and have to use this one on my future RAAF Phantom build. Hopefully you won't have the same problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I checked the tank and it seems all good, got lucky I guess! http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/f-4_home.htm Plenty of decent walkaround images for some good references. David. (edit, quotation failed again.) Edited June 4, 2015 by mirageiv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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