mirageiv Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Hi chaps, My second entry will be this, Hopefully build this simultaneously to my F-4F build. All the best, David. Edited May 22, 2015 by mirageiv 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I have this boxing in The Stash! I've always thought that Norm 72 was an exceptionally smart scheme for a Phantom. Looking forward to seeing this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Yes Enzo I agree, I'll do the Norm 72 jet, finalised now I have glued the square nosed camera housing. So first update. This jet will be inflight so I did not go overboard on detailing the cockpit, just amateurish bits of plasticard and bits to the sidewalls to resemble something like an RF-4E cockpit, mostly copied from the aires pit. I used eduard etch for the panels which is pretty decent for a canopy closed job IMHO. I have not added the sticks/throttles and some other bits as I usually end up damaging them so I'll add them just before the canopy closes. I have spent the whole day so far on the cameras in the nose, the Revell kit certainly does a better job here. Hasegawa provides a vague representation of 'something' behind only 3 of the windows which I felt needed some work. I made camera faces, not the whole interior framework, as when the interior is painted black all you can see is the face of the camera. Tamiya clear blue for the lenses. Absolute PITA to get them oriented correctly but I'm pleased with the final result. Also I used the revell intake faces which will give something to look at if you manage to peer all the way down the intakes. As you can see there is a little gap in part around the clear fairing, this will require some delicate filler work I think. Till next time , David. Edited April 26, 2015 by mirageiv 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Great start David. Nice work on the cockpit and the cameras, looks very good to me. I like your choice of camo scheme as well, Luftwaffe Phantoms look just right in the Norm 72 scheme. If I were to do a Luftwaffe bird it's the scheme I would use, I just wish that the likes of Revell would stop just doing the commemorative schemes and do some standard camo ones as well. Craig. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 I like your choice of camo scheme as well, Luftwaffe Phantoms look just right in the Norm 72 scheme. If I were to do a Luftwaffe bird it's the scheme I would use, I just wish that the likes of Revell would stop just doing the commemorative schemes and do some standard camo ones as well. .Thanks Craig, I agree with the Revell issue. They used to provide two schemes in many of their 1/72 kits, standard and a special, but now just seems to be special as you say unfortunately. I look forward to your RF-4E anyways David. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzy19 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Nice start David, that cockpit looks excellent. Sean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hi guys, just a quick update on this. I filled the camera bay area, protecting the windows with tape which seems to have worked. Looks a tad messy but its smooth . I also attached the rear missile bay inserts. In real life the fuselage panels are quite different to how hasegawa suggests in this area so I'll fill and scribe a more accurate representation. Below is a pic of 1/72 plans from the airdoc book which seem to agree with the photo of a real RF-4E below. http://www.airfighters.com/photo/30015/M/Greece-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-RF-4E-Phantom-II/7508/ Thanks for looking David. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hi guys. I want to make another entry and make this a double build with this kit, I will make this into a norm.83a version, just love that lizard camo scheme! The kit I have got seems to be an early production run of it as the panel lines are very crisp, much better than other 1/72 Hase phantom kits I have which is good. The decals are old and have yellowed quite badly however, I will have to see what the sunshine (bit optimistic for the UK ) will do for these. I may load it with 6 bl-755 as they had a secondary ground attack role after their mid-life update. On the Norm.72 jet I have closed the fuselage and filled the various holes present in the intakes. I also made a colour chart for the various schemes I will use. Predominately I paint with xtracolor and their paints match pretty darn well to the RAL/FS equivalents. So far I think I will go for these numbers: Norm.83A : RAL 7021-Schwarzgrau- Xtracolor X800 RAL 6003-Olivgrun- Xtracolor X261 or Revell 361, both seem fine according to lighting. FS 34079-Waldgrun or Forrest green-Xtracolor X110 is spot on for forest green but X018 Nato green looks a better match to real jets. I might mix them 50/50 to get a more brown tinge. Norm.72: RAL 6014-Gelboliv-Xtracolor 251 seems spot on. RAL 7021-Basaltgrau-Xtracolor 254 also seems spot on. RAL 9006-Weisaluminium-Maybe alclad, maybe humbrol metalcote. Tanks and pylons Forrest green and FS36622 light grey which has several options depending on the weathering. Thanks for looking David. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I like the thoroughness of your preparation, I will be following your progress with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 I like the thoroughness of your preparation, I will be following your progress with interest. Thank you, I do tend to go a little overboard on the exact colours as IMHO, it is the most important part of the overall model. I have finally settled on the correct mixtures for the RAL colours with a few tweeks to match the jets I want to build which I'll share shortly if anyone is interested in my mixes . Cheers, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 David I am most definitely interested in your colour mixes. Your choice of schemes is great, they will look really good next to each other and will show the two main schemes used by the Luftwaffe. The work you have done on the first one is very good, and I am sure that this second one will be just as good. Dangerously good in fact, you are making think about adding some 1/72 Phantoms to my collection. It seems the Revell F-4F and RF-4E are the easiest (cheapest) to come by, do they have any insurmountable issues or are they okay? Craig. (Who really must pull his finger out and get on with his own build instead of just reading about other builds!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) David I am most definitely interested in your colour mixes. Your choice of schemes is great, they will look really good next to each other and will show the two main schemes used by the Luftwaffe. The work you have done on the first one is very good, and I am sure that this second one will be just as good. Dangerously good in fact, you are making think about adding some 1/72 Phantoms to my collection. It seems the Revell F-4F and RF-4E are the easiest (cheapest) to come by, do they have any insurmountable issues or are they okay? Craig. (Who really must pull his finger out and get on with his own build instead of just reading about other builds!) Thank you and much appreciated, but thats just the thing with the phantom I guess, so many wonderful colour schemes and versions you can't just have one! Regarding the Revell kits (here we go ), They are a good deal cheaper, I bought my F-4F's off eBay for less than £10 including p&p so they cannot be beat there, though the availability of the RF-4E is not great I have found. I think they are fine if you want to build a pretty all round decent phantom, probably the most bang for your buck you might say however there are a number of downsides in comparison with the Hasegawa kits (the only other type of non-british phantoms I have to compare too). So far I have found the following, OOB the Revell kits only have non-slotted stabs so you will need to source them if the version you desire has them (quite a lot do). Both Revell versions have shape issues. The largest error is the front fuselage section which for the F is too long, narrow, pointed and has a slightly squished canopy and a wrong angle to the canopy slope (Opening them goes some way to making this disappear to the eyes). However In the boxings I have the canopies are not very clear at all and will need some work. The rear fuselage shape is a little off too by being slightly too tall in the intake-fuselage side contour and a slightly too fat and low fuselage spine running the length of the airframe. The fin cap shape is off, but with a little scratch improvement or sanding can be made o.k. The intakes are too tall, not curved enough and too wide, they have a phantom shape to them but it is not 100%. The tanks in the kit are too pointed but with a little sanding should be ok, stores/pylons are perfectly acceptable in both to my eyes. Bar the canopy, none of these are really obvious, they just cumulatively add up to a less accurate overall shape compared to the Hasegawa kit. The Revell kit is a simpler kit in break down so goes together much quicker than the hasegawa kit, a lot less fuss to get to the painting stage. Revell's cockpits have no sidewall detail, however the F's instrument panels/tub are very nicely done for 1/72, better than the RF-4E which is ok. Hasegawa is just decals but with the canopy closed and maybe some pilots in its fine. The biggest bonus's I should say with the Revell kits over the hasegawa is the fit (excellent) and the surface detail really is a work of art in 1/72. Oh also the decals look not bad, not tried them yet though. The RF-4E version also comes with some nice camera's to be installed properly in the nose, where as Hasegawa provides a very simplistic representation of just 3 of the camera's, pretty horrible, thats why I scratched some camera faces in my build. Sorry to drag on and write this essay but I wanted to give my honest opinion . Basically if you want an oob, quick,cheap (You can probably get 3 F-4F'S off eBay for the price of one new Hasegawa phantom), pretty decent looking phantom there is nothing wrong with the Revell kit. However if you want a kit that captures the shape pretty much spot on, despite a longer more complex build with a higher price, I'd take the Hasegawa. To me the shape is always king, surface detail/fit secondary, so I'll only build the Hasegawa kit from now on after seeing what my Revell kit is shaping up like. Best thing to do I guess is take a look at completed builds on the web to make up your own mind. I look forward to your build! Best regards, David. Edited April 30, 2015 by mirageiv 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Thanks David, I couldn't have wished for a more comprehensive reply! Really useful. Craig. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) No problem Craig . Last night I settles on the colours for the Norm.83A scheme. Below is pic of an old 'test' tornado and some of the mixes I have been using, the photos do not convey exactly the hue tbh. For the RAL7021-Schwatzgrau I have settles on a final mixture of: 90:5:5. 90-RAL7021 Schwatzgrau, 5-RAL5008 Graublau, 5-RAL7021 Basaltgrau. The tin RAL7021 was too black so I added a little greyblue and a little basaltgray which seemed to match the picture and condition of the paint I want. For the Waldgrun, FS14079 forest green with a little Gelboliv and a little Black was added, again in the approx ratio of 90:5:5. For Olivgrun, the Xtracolor tin was nearly spot on to me but I added a tiny amount of white, maybe 95:5 ratio. And a pic in similar lighting, Finally I rescribed the lower fuselage only to find the alclad primer (I didn't spray it very well it seems) used dissolved the 'Mr.dissolved' putty , little ironic. So will have to fill/rescribe again and probs use superglue. I started on the cockpit for the Norm.83 jet, robbing the revell instrument panels, should be ok for a canopy closed job. I scratched some more cameras, simple plasticard and aluminium tubing, not the full camera as all you can see is the front face when all closed up. The parts on the right are hasagawa's interpretation which don't cut it for me. Till next time, David. Edited May 1, 2015 by mirageiv 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Good use of the Revell kit's consoles - it will look much better than what Hasegawa provides. You should leave the canopies open. cheers, Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks Andrew, not sure if that one will be inflight or not yet . Cyano prevailed as a filler and I rescribed the rear fuselage to match the Airdoc drawings a little better, It is starting to look like a phantom now (Intakes just dry fitted), Thanks for looking, David. Edited May 10, 2015 by mirageiv 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air-to-Air Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Nice work on the rescribe. Those dark green bombs have some interesting markings. Thank you for sharing your colour research. I like that kind of detail and experimentation to get things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I agree with Rob, lovely result with the rescribing. Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Thanks chaps . Well the main airframe is now complete, intakes on and masked, all things filled/sanded. Will shoot some primer on soon with a rescribe here and there before I go back to the cockpit. I had to use some plastic shims for the fit, In the above picture I tried to scratch some lights behind the clear section, unfortunately a little black paint managed to get under one of them but I cannot do anything about it now, ah well it is on the underside . Cheers, David. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 I did some detailing to the outer cockpit using wire/plastic bits. The rear IP panel looks a little thick initially but the photos from my Airdoc book show it to be a box rather than a thin panel with instruments bolted to it, so it fills the rear WSO space nicely. I also began painting the pilots, Revell Nato crew with some helmets added from spares. Up to the mid eighties the crews wore orange suits, white helmets and only began changing to the more modern green suits/grey helmets towards the latter eighties from what I have gathered. So theses guys fit either the norm.72 camo or early norm.83 when I get to the painting stage. I test fired the canopy and with the pilots/seats in, you really cannot see any of the sidewall detail I added, so for the future I know not to bother . I added some of the prominent rivets on the tails, Thanks for looking, David. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Great work, especially on the colour schemes. I was going to do a Norm 83B but the amount of headscratching required for the colours put me off. I should have come here first, you seem to have nailed it all down brilliantly. Perhaps you should do a separate thread on getting the RAL colours right, it should be a "sticky"! Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Great work, especially on the colour schemes. I was going to do a Norm 83B but the amount of headscratching required for the colours put me off. I should have come here first, you seem to have nailed it all down brilliantly. Perhaps you should do a separate thread on getting the RAL colours right, it should be a "sticky"! Al Cheers Al! I think I may paint the jet first, making sure I'm happy with the exact mixes and then as you say if people are interested. It is a tricky scheme as they look very different in differing lighting conditions. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzy19 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Nice work! Your house must look like a Phantom production line inside! Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Nice work! Your house must look like a Phantom production line inside! Sean Thank you Sean, yes my garage atm resembles something like McDonnell's production line in the 70's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Are these pilots available from Revell still ? Need a couple for a Hawk. Good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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