Reference thread

[AnonymousDFB1]

Post you reference comments and links here.

Please remember if you are posting photos or artwork that you must either be the copyright holder or have the copyright holder's permission to post.

[Diego]

Hi folks,

I think, a list of operators and versions will be useful to see what can be done:

The mighty Phantom was operated by no less than 12 countries:

America:

- USA (USAF; ANG; USN; USMC)

Europe:

- UK (RAF; RN)

- Germany - F-4F; RF-4E

- Spain - F-4C; RF-4C

- Greece - F-4E; RF-4E

- Turkey - F-4E; RF-4E

Middle East:

- Egypt - F-4E

- Israel - F-4E; F-4E(S); RF-4E

- Iran - F-4D; F-4E; RF-4E

Far East:

- Japan - F-4EJ; RF-4EJ

- South Korea - F-4D; F-4E; RF-4C

- Australia - F-4E

Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, South Korea and Japan are still using the legendary fighter bomber today.

There are also many interesting schemes for which new decal sheets have been released in recent times.

It would be really cool to see in this GB an F-4 from each country operating the Phantom II

Greetings

Diego

Edited April 23, 2015 by Diego

[Giorgio N]

Here's an interesting website from a Japanese photographer with several pages dedicated to the Phantoms. All captions are bilingual Japanese/English, so not only the pictures are great but there's also some added information

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/pusmile.html

Some far east based US Phantoms

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/aF41u.html

A few ANG Phantoms

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/aF42u.html

More USAF Phantoms

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/aF43u.html

A few USN Phantoms wearing those colourful 1970's schemes

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/aF41un.html

And more colour from the USMC (with some grey aircrafts too)

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/aF42un.html

[FalkeEins]

a selection of British Phantom pics (70+) on my blog here, many kindly donated by ex-Toom phixers and the like

http://falkeeinsgreatplanes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/british-phantoms-f-4-phantom-ii-in-raf.html

[Air-to-Air]

Can anyone please advise of the following:

1. The colour of an operational Pilot's radar scope (i.e. in-flight) on the F-4E?
2. The colour of an operational WSO's radar scope (i.e. in-flight) on the F-4E?

The pictures I have seen suggest the pilot's scope is black with a reddish tint (when the aircraft is parked). I have read elsewhere that the reddish tint is due to some filter having been put in place over the scope.

I appreciate that there were many different models of F-4 and there appears to be some diversity amongst the various models which is why I have made my inquiry specific to the F-4E.

If you know the colour of operational radar scopes in the F-4EJ Kai (circa 2008), I'd love to hear about it but as that is unlikely I will assume it was similar to a regular F-4E.

[Andrew]

Rob,

I suspect that the scopes in operation (both front and rear) would not look that different from how they appear when turned off, the major difference being the presence of green symbology when turned on. I didn't find any photos to show them turned on, so can't back this up, but the F-4EJ Kai's digital displays do look to be a generation or two ahead of the F-4E, so a regular F-4E might not be the best guidance for an F-4EJ Kai.

Hope this helps,

Andrew.

[Air-to-Air]

Rob,

I suspect that the scopes in operation (both front and rear) would not look that different from how they appear when turned off, the major difference being the presence of green symbology when turned on. I didn't find any photos to show them turned on, so can't back this up, but the F-4EJ Kai's digital displays do look to be a generation or two ahead of the F-4E, so a regular F-4E might not be the best guidance for an F-4EJ Kai.

Hope this helps,

Andrew.

It certainly does! I couldn't find anything in my searches so that single image is gold, much appreciated.

[Alan P]

There are some older cockpit videos on Youtube that show the display screens as black in flight. I suspect you can't see the symbology unless you are positioned exactly in front of the display, especially the WSO's scope.

When I made my F-4E, an ex-F-4E crew chief told me the screens should appear black/grey (CRT screens) - the green/reddish tint is an effect of the polarised filter on the camera.

EDIT: just rechecked the original e-mail, and this info is not correct for the powered up state! Disregard, sorry!

Edited May 6, 2015 by Brokenedge

[FalkeEins]

When I made my F-4E, an ex-F-4E crew chief told me the screens should appear black/grey (CRT screens) - the green/reddish tint is an effect of the polarised filter on the camera.

..just discovered this.. fantastic work and great reference..was there any more?

[Alan P]

..just discovered this.. fantastic work and great reference..was there any more?

Thanks, the references and discussions happened over on ARC but it seems to have moved to another server and I can't find it anymore

[Alan P]

Does anyone have any pictures of the rear walls of an F-4F cockpit, particularly the rear one? I've found lots of panel and sidewalls, but none of the bit behind the seats.

Cheers

[Enzo the Magnificent]

F-4 wings and tailplanes

There has been a bit of discussion in the chat thread about the various standards on wings. From memory, this is how it works. If I have got anything wrong, let me know and I will amend the post.

There are three standards of wing:

Thin wing - no bulge on the upper wing surface. The wheels are narrow. Droops on leading edges of inner and outer wings.

Bulged wing - bulge on the upper surface to house the thick wheels. Droops on leading edges of inner and outer wings.

Slatted wing - Bulged wing with slats on the inner and outer leading edges. The inner sections have three flap tracks on the lower surfaces. The outer flaps are very prominent. There is also a wing fence between the inner and outer wing sections together with some bulges on the wingtips.

There are two main standards of tailplane:

Slotted - usually fitted to carrier-borne aircraft.

Hard - usually fitted to land-based aircraft.

Both sets of tailplanes had triangular strengthening plates fitted in the mid-60s.

F-4B, F-4G (USN), F-4N - thin wing, slotted tailplane

RF-4B - Majority with thin wing, slotted tailplane. The final few had the bulged wing. Consult your references.

F-4C, RF-4C, F-4D, early F-4E - Bulged wing, hard tailplane.

Late F-4E, F-4F - Slatted wing, hard tailplane Most later F-4Es had a TISEO installation on the port leading edge. Consult your references.

F-4G (USAF)- Slatted wing, hard tailplane

F-4J - Bulged wing, slotted tailplane

F-4K (FG.1) - Bulged wing, slotted tailplane

F-4M (FGR.2) - Bulged wing, hard tailplane

F-4S - Slatted wing, slotted tailplane.

Hope this helps and that I haven't muddied the waters...

Edited May 17, 2015 by Enzo Matrix

[mirageiv]

Enzo excellent list. Just one point, the triangular plates on the tails really do vary between aircraft so you have to check exactly which jet you are building, not just taking a particular user for a uniform given standard. For example some Luftwaffe RF-4E's had them, some not. Israeli F-4Es also were mixed, whilst Luftwaffe F-4F's all lacked the plates.

David.

Edited May 17, 2015 by mirageiv

[Rhino]

Enzo

Excellent post, but I have 2 corrections.

First the tailplanes are slotted not slatted, the difference being slats move, and slots don't.

Second, and probably outside general consideration, airframe 62-12200 was originally built as an F-4B, but converted to the RF-4C prototype on the line. As a result, this was the only RF-4C with a thin wing. It served it's life as a test airframe (and currently resides in the USAF Museum at Dayton.. This airframe became the F-4E prototype, and ended up doing slat test work, so it is the only slatted thin wing.

Sorry if this is boring,

Ted

[Enzo the Magnificent]

Sorry if this is boring,

Not boring. Fascinating!

And it proves once again the importance of checking references.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

First the tailplanes are slotted not slatted, the difference being slats move, and slots don't.

thanks Ted. I've amended my post. I find those tailplanes interesting as it looks like the fixed part of the slot is umop apisdn.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Enzo Matrix

[Tailspin Turtle]

Navy and Air Force Slatted Wings were different: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2012/12/f-4s-wing.html

Stabilator: http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/11/f-4-stabilator.html

Note that the stabilator does lift down. For an illustrated explanation of the change to the slatted stabilator: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/09/f-4-flapstabilizer-change.html

For a summary of the F4H-1F/F-4A configuration: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/11/early-phantom-iis.html

[Andrew]

HI Enzo,

Good summary and overview. The bulged wing was bulged on both upper and lower surfaces, no just the upper. The bulge on the underside starts on the main undercarriage doors and continues onto the airbrakes.

Hope this helps.

Andrew.

[Alan P]

Reference the F-4E information mentioned above:

Thanks to Giorgio I have rediscovered the ARC forums, and can link to the Revell 1/32 F-4E build I did which was supported by some very useful sources, notably Scott Wilson who was a maintenance engineer on USAF F-4E's in the 80s.

For an almost-definitive build of a Tamiya F-4E from the same era, this is Chuck Sawyer's build again with lots of input from Scott Wilson. (This is a lazy Sunday afternoon read, it goes on for about 45 pages!)

Al

[Tim Moff]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IA1xX2-qhGY

Video from the old days

[Air-to-Air]

If anyone can provide a decent image of the top of the F-15 centreline fuel tank where it connects to the fuselage, I would appreciate it.

I've done the Google thing and got images for the rear connection point but nothing for the front.

Edit: I've done a bit more research and sourced some reference material in respect of my request above.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Air-to-Air

[Jens]

A few additions/corrections:

The IDF/AF had two RF-4Cs (69-0369 and 69-0370) on loan from the USAF pending delivery of their own RF-4Es, i.e. 1970-71.

F-4Bs had the unslotted tailplanes initially. They were retrofitted with the slotted ones before conversion to F-4N. RF-4Bs also had unslotted tailplanes initially.

The ten RF-4Bs in the 1573xx BuNo range all have bulged wings. All other 36 RF-4Bs had the thin wings.

The original delivered Greek and Turkish RF-4Es had slatted wings like the late F-4Es. The RF-4Es received from Germany later on were not retrofitted with slatted wings.

F-4Es from FY71 and forward were fitted with TISEO. Older airframes were not, although a few examples have been seen with TISEO-mounted leading edge flap (TISEO wasn't installed though).

RF-4 nose profiles

The first 43 RF-4Bs had the angled nose profile. The last three airframes (157349, 157350 & 157351) had the rounded/smooth nose profile.

RF-4Cs appear to have been produced with the angled nose profile up till and including FY68. Several earlier airframes have been retrofitted with the rounded/smooth nose profile though so check your references.
FY69 RF-4Cs appear to be a mix of nose profiles, eventually switching exclusively to the rounded/smooth nose profile in the FY71 & FY72 batches.

German RF-4Es all had the angles nose profile.
Initial Greek and Turkish RF-4Es all had the rounded/smooth nose profile. Later deliveries from Luftwaffe stocks retained their angled nose profiles.
Initial Iranian and Israeli RF-4Es had the angled nose profile. Later deliveries had the rounded/smooth nose profile.
All Japanese RF-4EJs (apart from the F-4EJ conversions, all of which retain the gun nose) have the rounded/smooth nose profile.

Spanish and Korean RF-4Cs had a mix of nose profiles so check your references.

Jens