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Bob Henry

Tamiya 1/48 Grand Slam Lancaster

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Hi guys. I'm new to this site so please bear with me if this topic has been previously addressed. I am going to build the Tamiya 1/48 Grand Slam Lancaster Bomber (kit # 61504). However, there is a decal problem. The roundels, identification numbers, and fin emblems are the wrong shade of red. I spent over 4 hours surfing the web trying to find aftermarket replacements .... no luck. I have encountered the same problem with the Tamiya 1/48 Mosquito, Mk III, and Beaufighter but I think that I can purchase some aftermarket alternatives. Are there any options ? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Bob

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Yes there are , You need Hannants Extra decal sheets RAF Roundels in 48th scale

There are various sheets covering all styles of RAF Roundels & sizes . The Type C1 sheet also has the fin flashes. :thumbsup2:

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http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48028

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48029

and possibly

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48030

will take care of your roundels and fin flashes.

Red squadron codes are here:

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48048

Red 8-inch serials are here:

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48049

Edited by Work In Progress

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Thanks for your input. I might consider obtaining these sheets before I purchase the other decals because I may be able to use some of the other size roundels. GREAT INPUT !!!! Bob

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Bob , the upper wing roundels on the Tamiya Lancaster are too small anyway

Replace them with the next size up possibly 75inch ? from the extra decal sheet

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Unfortunately, as well as the aircraft being paint Light Green/Light Earth over Ocean Grey, the codes were yellow, outlined in red, and, as far as I know, these have never been available.

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Unfortunately, as well as the aircraft being paint Light Green/Light Earth over Ocean Grey, the codes were yellow, outlined in red, and, as far as I know, these have never been available.

They are described that way here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234917903-gram-slam-lancaster/

in post #12

In this particular case the eye-witness evidence is of rather better quality than the "From what I remember they were brown and green." type reminiscence. As he recounts in the January 1976 Scale Models (pp.24-28), on 18 June 1946 the aviation artist C Rupert Moore made an officially-sanctioned visit to Mildenhall to collect data and talk to aircrew to support his commision to produce a colour frontispiece for Aircraft of the Fighting Powers Vol VII. I quote from his text:

"The only satisfactory way to find out exactly what colour an aircraft is is to go and examine it in the field and there are only 3 satisfactory methods of recording those colours. Either to carry the necessary equipment to enable one to make an exact colour matching in the field; to check against official colour samples; or, in the case of a crash, to collect bits of wreckage with the colours on them. I have used all 3 methods and and from small oblongs have prepared a series of 'Field Cards', consisting of a row of contemporary colours mounted along the edge of a narrow card. My first colour sample was collected in the grounds of the Doncaster Grammar School after a BE2e had crashed there nearly putting paid to the whole of our form. The Field Card I used during my visit to Mildenhall was prepared from an official set of MAP Colour Standards issued in August 1944. The aircraft I examined most closely was YZ-Z PD121. All the colours were non-reflecting MATT finish and let me state that the only time a heavy RAF bomber at this period had a glossy finish was when it was wet." [Capitals and italics as original.]
I quote all this to illustrate that IMHO this guy was being as scientific as the technology of the day permitted. Anyway, at the end of all this, he explains in 4 paras of detail the colours: "...the colours were changed. 'LIGHT GREEN' replaced 'Dark Green' and 'LIGHT EARTH' replaced 'Dark Earth'. Undersides were 'Ocean Grey', including the bomb-bays, undercarriage legs and other accessories. .... Squadron markings and the individual code letter, both sides of the fuselage, Trainer Yellow outlined Indian Red. The YZ was to the left of the roundel on both sides. The Squadron letters above and below the fixed tailplane were 'Trainer Yellow' only." [He had earlier explained that merely outlining the red codes in yellow still did not make them sufficiently visible visible so the colours were reversed to yellow outlined red: no date given for the change.]
So there you are: a trained artist, with a 30-year pedigree of interest in aircraft colours and with the avowed purpose of collecting data for a colour painting, visits an actual aircraft in the field with field cards based on MAP colour charts and gives you his detailed findings. What more could anyone want? Perhaps if he'd been a High Court judge or Archbishop as well? Personally I find such testimony, however implausible it may sound, hard to discount. But others are perfectly entitled to apply normative logic 60 years after the event and say the aircraft ought to have been in DE/DG/MSG and that from the photos they appear to be so finished. If I wanted to apply logic to support Moore's findings, I could note that he says earlier that, with the Grand Slam Lancasters' armament reduced to just the tail turret, it was the responsbility of KC-coded Lancasters to afford such protection as they could. That would explain the distinctive YZ codes and the emphasis on making them visible: using LE and LG on the upper surfaces might, rpt might [my speculation] might have been a way of making Grand Slam Lancasters more immediately distinguishable from above. To which it might reasonably be objected that the colour difference between DE and LE and between DG and LG was pretty marginal and that, on the evidence of the B+W photos, it didn't work very well.
NB also that Moore was viewing the aircraft in 1946, more than a year after the war had finished. OTOH the squadron was being disbanded so it's unlikely that too much effort had gone into repainting the aircaft recently.

Note, the wartime photo also in thread. which very much look like at this stage the markings were red outlined yellow still, including on the tailplane.

MH30791_May45.jpg

MH30794.jpg

This type of marking is included in the kit, but they are in a bright red. If you have a steady hand perhaps you could overpaint the bright red?

Note, the Tamiya kit is now very old, and has numerous issues.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/80456-tamiya-148-lancaster/#entry882341

HTH

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Thanks guys for the additional input. I will definitely "upsize" the roundels. Also, from what I can tell, there are two paint schemes for this kit with two different types of letters. I can simply choose the scheme that matches the available decals. After reading the detailed description I may try to lighten the colors just a bit and go with the color change underneath the aircraft. I could try my hand at making some stencils for the letters ( painted in trainer yellow ) that are to be located or the horizontal tail surfaces. I am planning on building the kit with the electric motors installed, primarily for the benefit of any youngsters that may visit our home. Maybe it will peak their curiosity just a little bit.

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Upon further review .... I might try to make the kit corrections that are discussed in the links attached in the above listed replies. It will test my skills to be sure.

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Another option you might consider- buy a circle cutter off Amazon for approx £3 and make your own. I have made my own roundels for my last couple of RAF builds. I had to do this on my own 48th Lancaster- the kit decals were too small and when I bought the Xtradecal replacements they broke up on me.

Alan.

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Ok guys. My decals arrived the other day. I got the following decals to try to help with my incorrectly colored decals for my 1/48 RAF kits. The decal sheets are as follows.: (all are XTRA decals) X48030, X48049, X48048, X029-48, X48028. Please bear with me for this list is a bit lengthy. #! - Tamiya Lancaster Grand Slam ( #61504 ) - These decals will work for one of the two versions. It is PD112 attack of Viaduct at Bielefeld 14 Mar. 45. #2 - Tamiya RAF Mustang III ( #61047 ) - the decals will fix the problems. #3 - Tamiya Mosquito FB Mk. VI / NF Mk. II ( #61062 ) the decals will fix the versions of the Mk VI but not the one version of the NF. #4 Tamiya Beaufighter Mk. VI Nightfighter ( #61064 ) cannot fix any version. However if I got the earlier version of the Roundels I could fix one version. #5 - Tamiya Spitfire Mk. Vb ( #61033 ) - they must have made a change because the kit decals are actually closer to the correct shade of red for the flashes and roundels - no fix needed. #6 - Italeri Hurricane Mk I ( PRM 2011 ) - the Irish version is ok but I need the earlier version of the roundels to correct the other versions... with some creative doctoring of the fin flashes. #7 - Gavia Lysander Mk. III ( kit 007/ 0401 ) ... I think that the kit decals are ok. So, to sum it up, I need to order the earlier version of the roundels and maybe look around if I want to do a Mossy Nightfighter ... and maybe look around for a sheet of Beaufighter Mk VI Nightfighter decals if I'm not satisfied with the one version. I hope that this information will be helpful for anyone else who wants to take care of the problem with the incorrect shade of red with the various kit decals.

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