canberra kid Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Very nice photos Chris! I wouldn't mind taking a look at the Canberra photos! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Thanks for your patience. My old notes reveal that I saw the TT.20s at Hurn in October 1969 and the FRU were re-equipping with Canberras to replace them. I recorded the following in the lime green scheme WM159 840/A WM242 842 WD649 843 WM255 845 WD785 846 WD780 E They were silver paint allover with lime green/black TT bands and lime green trainer bands. The 3 digit codes were in black below the cockpit. 842 and 846 had shiny black 'radomes'. The letter codes were carried on the side of the overawing winch; E was in black on a lime winch with a black spiral spinner marking. 845's winch was dayglo orange. They all had their serials marked on the the fin, half way between the bullet fairing and the fuselage. Some, but not 842, 845 or E, had their serials in two lines, like this ... (sounds a bit like one of those logic puzzles) WD 875 I have a shot of 845 which I will try and post over the weekend. If it doesn't appear Richard, drop me a PM with your email. Chris Of those listed Chris and according to my notes at the time, only two served with 728 at Hal Far whilst I was on the island in the early/mid sixties. They were WM255 as "HF/581" and WD785 as "HF-866". When 728 finally disbanded in March/April 1967, the following did a flypast over various parts of the island on the 7/4/67, landed at Luqa for fuel and ONS and departed the following day for UK, via Istres, led out of Maltese airspace by Valetta C.2 VX574 of MCTTS :-, WD785 "HF/866" WD952 "HF/579" WD612 "HF/578" WM147 "HF/862" WM260 "HF/863" WD592 "HF/864" and T.7 WL353 "HF/861" T.7 WL332 "HF/860" had been returned to the UK some two years earlier and promptly scrapped at Brawdy due to excessive corrosion. All the TT.20's had Saturn Yellow/Black undersurfaces with Saturn Yellow bands on the upper mainplanes, just outboard of the nacelles, and rear fuselage. The remains of 728 Sqdn were dumped on the B.C. hangar floor at Luqa. These consisted of a large wooden crate, various bits of GE and a Shellduck D1 XR826 with a spare wing. The latter was flown out of Luqa by Shackleton VP293 from the RAE Farnborough. The remaining bits were loaded aboard a 242 OCU C-130K a few days later. As far as I am aware, the T.7's and TT.20's at Akrotiri and at 1574 Flight at Changi did not adopt the Saturn Yellow bands although every time the I dropped in to Akers, there seemed to be more and more TT.20's in a hangar acting as a "spares source". According to the MCTTS ORB, at least one of their TT.8's had "Fluorescent Yellow" bands applied at Safi soon after arrival on the Unit 29/9/60. This was WH402 which had them applied (allegedly) in late Feb 61. In August 1974, I visited 5 MU Kemble with a Harrier T-Bird, in for repainting. One of the blister hangars was full of TT.20's from both RN and 2/3 CAACU. I could only photograph the one nearest the hangar doors as they were packed in tight. This was WM270 ex Y of 2/3 CAACU. It too had Saturn Yellow bands under wing but the remaining markings were in fluorescent red tape on the upper wings, nose and rear fuselage. If I can find the shot, I'll post it. Hopefully my Hurn TT.20 photos will be linked to this post (first attempt). I have been a bit more successful with photoshop in restoring the lime green tint. If anything they should be a little greener. I've also got some colour shots of the last FRU Scimitars and the 'new' Canberras and Hunters, if anyone is interested ... I guess 'Scimitar' might be? CT http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/ogSUVz.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/9bvntm.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/gdvInf.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/7FrNbR.jpg Very very interesting shots Chris. Would it be possible for you to post a shot where the scanning brought out the "yellow" as mentioned in your previous post ? Fluorescent colours in both the RN and the RAF official documents were given references as follows :- "Fluorescent Yellow (TMY 24)" "Fluorescent Red (TMR 25)" "Fluorescent Orange (TMR 41)". They were first produced by the paint manufacturer Docker Brothers of Birmingham under the trade name "Dockerblaze". They also produced the fluorescent tape under the name "Fibreblaze" and a lightweight Aluminium paint "Dockerlight" 100 and 200 that was specified by Shorts for the Canberra PR.9. In the 50's and 60's, the Company was best known for it's owner, Sir Bernard and Lady Docker and their penchant for high living and driving around in high powered Daimler cars. Slightly but back in the 70's, Airfield Crash/Rescue trucks Mk.1 supplied to the RAF, had a Weidolux daylight red fluorescent finish to RAL3024. and........... Original recipe Docker paints have/are being produced by the Company "Castrads", manufacturers of cast iron radiators. It is not known if the fluorescent colours are being produced but the thought of a "pleasing to the eye" Saturn Yellow radiator in my study does have some attractions. For modellers, getting hold of Saturn Yellow is easy - there is oodles, not a word I use often, of it about. Just Google "Saturn Yellow spray". HTH Dennis Edited April 18, 2015 by sloegin57 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
825 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) The orange variety faded too quickly, appearing very yellow and patchy, so was superseded by the red/dark pink variety. Fire Orange and Flame Red were how I remember the names, though I can't swear to that. I'm pretty sure that the FAA followed the same progression as the other services. I recall being in Lossiemouth at BB camp in '68 and we visited the base on a couple of occasions. Apart from the 'wow' factor of being led into a hanger full of Buccs I recall that the Dayglo on the Sea Princes's and Vampires was very faded and had a distinct pink hue. Although only a teenager it did strike me as odd at the time as the pictures and photos I had seen previously always had Dayglo as a fairly vivid orangey red. Edited April 18, 2015 by 825 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Very very interesting shots Chris. Would it be possible for you to post a shot where the scanning brought out the "yellow" as mentioned in your previous post ? Dennis Here you go Dennis. I was very disappointed with the photos at the time as by the time I got the film back and I found it had rendered the rather spectacular lime green as yellow, my opportunity to photograph them had gone. Maybe another make of film would have given a more accurate result. I did see a couple of these beauties again, 2 or 3 years later on RAF fire dumps, but out of camera range. So the image below is a straight scan of the original negative without any interference from Photoshop or similar. Chris http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/PynfWb.jpg Edited April 19, 2015 by Chris Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Very nice photos Chris! I wouldn't mind taking a look at the Canberra photos! John Well here you John. Not sure what the FRU used the B.2 for; it was later modified to TT.18. Both aircraft were later coded with white codes on black rectangles. WK141 became '847' and WJ717 '841'. I've also got some 3 and 16 sqn BI8s at St Athan and Ferranti's laser nosed BI8, but if you want to see those it'll be in about a month. Chris http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/MF7g7O.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/Njrelc.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/905/5UkQx6.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Hopefully my Hurn TT.20 photos will be linked to this post (first attempt). I have been a bit more successful with photoshop in restoring the lime green tint. If anything they should be a little greener. I've also got some colour shots of the last FRU Scimitars and the 'new' Canberras and Hunters, if anyone is interested ... I guess 'Scimitar' might be? CT http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/ogSUVz.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/9bvntm.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/gdvInf.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/7FrNbR.jpg Have checked ref it was Saturn Yellow as shown in these photos but found old SAM mags two say lime green one said Saturn Yellow & mentions Humbrol colour which I used , it stats that it can be found in fishing tackle shops as they like to paint their floats with it !!! DAYGLO Green was a very bright green colour. regards Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 This is most impressive stuff. Saturn Yellow is certainly something I shall hunt for. Thanks several of you for prompting memories of happy days at Lossie - and Milltown. And yes, John, I remember that Humbrol 'Glow' undercoat. Unlike Grizzly I don' t have any of that, though I do still have a tinlet of Humbrol's original Blaze Orange. John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Saturn Yellow is certainly something I shall hunt for. John. You do not need to hunt for it - it is all around us, Police cars, Fire Trucks, Hi-vis jackets and hats in fact anything that requires "Hi=Vis has Saturn Yellow incorporated into the design. I did an experiment off the cuff this afternoon during the weekly "invasion of the family" It was in between the European Gymnastics and the Bahrain F1. I asked my two sons and granddaughter to look up "Saturn Yellow" on their I-pod thingies. When they had it "on screen", I asked them "What colour is it ?". The two boys said "Yellow" but my granddaughter came back "Yellow with a hint of Lime" which is exactly the way I remember it. As I said before, there is oodles of the stuff around. I have attached a sample, taken at random, from the web. As I will be explaining to Chris tomorrow when I comment again on his photographs, the perceived colour will depend on so many variables, your monitor, your eyesight etc :- Saturn Yellow (bear in mind please that this is transmitted colour as opposed to reflected colour) Will write later HTH Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 John. You do not need to hunt for it - it is all around us, Police cars, Fire Trucks, Hi-vis jackets and hats in fact anything that requires "Hi=Vis has Saturn Yellow incorporated into the design. I did an experiment off the cuff this afternoon during the weekly "invasion of the family" It was in between the European Gymnastics and the Bahrain F1. I asked my two sons and granddaughter to look up "Saturn Yellow" on their I-pod thingies. When they had it "on screen", I asked them "What colour is it ?". The two boys said "Yellow" but my granddaughter came back "Yellow with a hint of Lime" which is exactly the way I remember it. As I said before, there is oodles of the stuff around. I have attached a sample, taken at random, from the web. As I will be explaining to Chris tomorrow when I comment again on his photographs, the perceived colour will depend on so many variables, your monitor, your eyesight etc :- Saturn Yellow (bear in mind please that this is transmitted colour as opposed to reflected colour) Will write laterHTH Dennis I feel my efforts to be helpful have just served to confuse. The lime green dayglo carried by the TT 20s was much more green than Saturn Yellow. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I feel my efforts to be helpful have just served to confuse. The lime green dayglo carried by the TT 20s was much more green than Saturn Yellow. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I wonder if John B thought his question would go on for a couple of pages? (and he evens remembers Milltown )(now was XL717 dayglo or red ) Regarding Saturn Yellow..can I trust my memory from 50 years ago and believe it was more green or just accept that yellowy green (or greeny yellow) ? Britmodeller continues to be at the fore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detail is everything Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I feel my efforts to be helpful have just served to confuse. The lime green dayglo carried by the TT 20s was much more green than Saturn Yellow. CT To compare dayglo green with day glo yellow Even allowing for washout due to weathering, there is a significant difference. It would be good to try and identify the shade of green seen on the TT20's. How close did Chris' photoshopped photo's capture the lime green tint? He says 'If anything they should be a little greener'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 To compare dayglo green with day glo yellow Even allowing for washout due to weathering, there is a significant difference. It would be good to try and identify the shade of green seen on the TT20's. How close did Chris' photoshopped photo's capture the lime green tint? He says 'If anything they should be a little greener'. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 To compare dayglo green with day glo yellow Even allowing for washout due to weathering, there is a significant difference. It would be good to try and identify the shade of green seen on the TT20's. How close did Chris' photoshopped photo's capture the lime green tint? He says 'If anything they should be a little greener'. He now says, bearing in mind his decrepit eyesight and dodgy monitor, "the one on the left is nearer". CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 He now says, bearing in mind his decrepit eyesight and dodgy monitor, "the one on the left is nearer". CT I am particularly fascinated by your Canberra shots at the moment so don't worry about it Chris. I'm just back from a Neurological scan at the local School of Medicine. Nothing to do with this thread I hasten to add. May I ask a question of you - did you always use a Ultra Violet filter on your camera - especially when taking colour ? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I am particularly fascinated by your Canberra shots at the moment so don't worry about it Chris. I'm just back from a Neurological scan at the local School of Medicine. Nothing to do with this thread I hasten to add. May I ask a question of you - did you always use a Ultra Violet filter on your camera - especially when taking colour ? Dennis Never used a filter at all Dennis. Couldn't afford one for my Zenit E bought from Dixons on the Never-never. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) I wonder if John B thought his question would go on for a couple of pages? (and he evens remembers Milltown )(now was XL717 dayglo or red ) Regarding Saturn Yellow..can I trust my memory from 50 years ago and believe it was more green or just accept that yellowy green (or greeny yellow) ? Britmodeller continues to be at the fore. No, Scimitar, I didn't ! Fascinating. Gosh - XL717 : I do recall a Tiger Moth, and I had to cheat to find it was probably XL717, in silver overall with yellow T-bands, which I saw.at Lossie in the early Sixties. I never got a tow behind her, though before gliding stopped at Milltown I did tow behind an Auster, G-ARLO, owned by Johnny Campbell. Also recall a nosewheel Auster/Beagle which briefly tried towing there. Longest take-off run ever... That was around the time the 1 Sqn Harriers trialled forest living in the woods. When did XL717 go dayglo? Did you live/fly up in the area - is the name indicative? Yes, BM is rather good fun. Sloegin - thanks. Yes of course there is lots of Saturn Yellow around, silly of me not to be more specific - I meant as an (enamel preferably) paint for modelling. John B Edited April 25, 2015 by John B (Sc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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