Stencilled serial numbers on Spitfire components

[Peter Roberts]

Some (if not all) Spitfire VIIIs delivered to Australa had their serial number stencilled on the exterior surface of some components. I presume this was to help with reassembly.

Was there a drawing or instruction created giving details of where these stencils should be placed?

PR

[Edgar]

I've never seen one, and, given how many different aircraft were crated up for transport, I'd hazard a guess it was left to those doing the dismantling, using the normal white distemper, which could be removed, on arrival, with hot water.

[Peter Roberts]

Thanks Edgar. Given the procedural nature of British WW2 aircraft production I thought there may have been some sort of documentation for this.

The serials appear to have been applied with a light grey paint (MSG?) Hard to tell from photos if it was a temporary paint, but they remained on the aircraft after assembly and were painted over where RAAF paint was used. These appear in places like the wing root and aerial - in the case of the wing root, partially covered when RAAF Earth Brown appears to have been applied..

I guess this leaves it open to modellers discretion...

PR

[Magpie22]

On

Edited April 26, 2015 by Magpie22

[Peter Roberts]

Mate, thank you. I wasn't aware of the numbers on the cowling, but had seen them on wing roots and aerials.

When it came to shipping Spitfires, am I right in believing the tail planes were left on? I have seen the wings removed (and possibly the cowling panels?), and would imagine the prop was also removed (?)

PR

[Magpie22]

When it came to shipping Spitfires, am I right in believing the tail planes were left on? I have seen the wings removed (and possibly the cowling panels?), and would imagine the prop was also removed (?)

Edited April 26, 2015 by Magpie22

[Edgar]

It probably depended on whether they went deck cargo, or in ships' holds; certainly the spares manual allows for complete disassembly:-

There are photos (somewhere) of an opened crate with the tail section complete, but separate.

[Magpie22]

p

Edited April 26, 2015 by Magpie22

[Peter Roberts]

Thank you gentlemen, appreciate the information and insights.

PR

[Mark12]

In my experience trailing around the world researching surviving Spitfires there are two distinct categories of marking detachable Spitfire parts with RAF serials.

1) Is the common pratice of servicing and maintenance personnel to stencil or indeed hand paint the full RAF or the last three digits on the internal surfaces of all detachable parts so that the same part goes back on the same Spitfire locally, remembering that the Spitfire, unlike the P-51, is a 'file and fit' aircraft. A careful study of these markings has in a number cases combined with other clues been key in determining the true RAF identity of orphan Spitfires or projects.

2) Is the special case of Mk VIIIs bound for the RAAF/Australia. Here many if not all parts and panels removed for separate or adjacent group packing were stencilled in yellow with a permanent paint on the outside surface of cowlings, head armour plate, spinners, wing fillets, radio masts etc etc. I have seen a good number of examples in my Australian travels. My view is that this was necessary because to minimise the amount of free air space in the crates parts were separated and stacked.

PeterA

A couple of examples:-

Edited April 1, 2015 by Mark12

[Peter Roberts]

Peter, thank you!

Up until now I think the general concensus was these details were in grey, probably MSG. Great info re yellow, and info that supports earlier posts.

The photo of the armour plate is interesting. There is a photo of a Vc in Burma with the same detail (serial stencilled on the armour plate) but apparently in black (unless ortho film was used!)

PR

[Mark12]

When it came to shipping Spitfires, am I right in believing the tail planes were left on? I have seen the wings removed (and possibly the cowling panels?), and would imagine the prop was also removed (?)

Peter,

I don't have anything definitive on this but, based on the few photos I have sighted, the empennage remained firmly attached to the fuselage. Engine cowling panels were removed, presumably to aid in inhibiting the engine, and packed separately. Prop and wings were removed. Edgar may have some hard info covering the design of the packing boxes.

Magpie22

What I can tell you is that a Mk VIII fuselage with tail unit minus rudder and elevator still attached will not fit inside a modern standard 40ft container. With engine still attached it is impractical to tilt the fusleage. Just disconnect the controls, tail wheel hydraulics, a bit of electrial harnes and the trim wires and unbolt the empennage at the transport break.

PeterA

Edited April 1, 2015 by Mark12

[Magpie22]

In my experience trailing around the world researching surviving Spitfires there are two distinct categories of marking detachable Spitfire parts with RAF serials.

1) Is the common pratice of servicing and maintenance personnel to stencil or indeed hand paint the full RAF or the last three digits on the internal surfaces of all detachable parts so that the same part goes back on the same Spitfire locally, remembering that the Spitfire, unlike the P-51, is a 'file and fit' aircraft. A careful study of these markings has in a number cases combined with other clues been key in determining the true RAF identity of orphan Spitfires or projects.

2) Is the special case of Mk VIIIs bound for the RAAF/Australia. Here many if not all parts and panels removed for separate or adjacent group packing were stencilled in yellow with a permanent paint on the outside surface of cowlings, head armour plate, spinners, wing fillets, radio masts etc etc. I have seen a good number of examples in my Australian travels. My view is that this was necessary because to minimise the amount of free air space in the crates parts were separated and stacked.

PeterA

P

Edited April 26, 2015 by Magpie22

[Mark12]

A few more from my travels.

Now this stencil of LV750 would appear to be showing a dark colour rather than yellow. What we are seeing here is a panel that has spent many years in the weathering process at Gorrie. As the sun has eroded the layer of paint that was dark top surface right back to bare metal, the stencil yellow paint has equally totally eroded but protected the layer of dark paint beneath it which eventually has become exposed as this dark serial. It has been locally enhanced by fluid for this image

PeterA

Edited April 3, 2015 by Mark12

[Edgar]

In discussions of this kind, I always bear in mind what the Westland archivist told me, years ago.

He said that, during repairs, they found that removable parts from any of their, or Supermarine's, Spitfires, could be set aside, and fitted onto any similar airframe without a problem; however, every Castle Bromwich airframe had to retain its parts, since they would not fit on any other.

[Mark12]

Just like a 1960's/70's Aston Martin and a GM Vauxhall...and I worked for both.

File and fit.

PeterA

[gingerbob]

Edgar, that's interesting, and I find it quite plausible- but remember that VIIIs going to Australia were all built by Supermarine. Maybe it was a lingering habit? (or just a precaution)

bob

Edited April 3, 2015 by gingerbob

[Peter Roberts]

Thanks Edgar - I have been under the impression that pretty much ALL Spitfires were unique with their panels, especially the early versions.

Peter, more interesting info around these serials. Can I ask, what are the panels at the top and bottom of post 14 please?

PR

Edited April 3, 2015 by Peter Roberts

[Max Headroom]

Just like a 1960's/70's Aston Martin and a GM Vauxhall...and I worked for both.

File and fit.

PeterA

....and the engine cowling panels between Boulton Paul and Blackburn built Balliols.

Thread hijack over......

Trevor

[Mark12]

Peter, more interesting info around these serials. Can I ask, what are the panels at the top and bottom of post 14 please?

PR

PR

The bottom piece is a wing fillet panel.

The top piece was not my image but I believe it to be a portion of a side engine cowl that has been butchered about a bit.

PeterA

[Peter Roberts]

Thank you Peter A.

This is common then to the other parts illustrated in this post and further clarifies these markings.

From the above it looks like the spinner, cowl panels, wings and aerial were removed from Spitfires and stencilled with yellow (1"?) characters giving the serial number of the plane they were taken from. (serial number on the armour plate is an interesting one)

Thank you gentlemen for the wonderful information.

Peter R

Edited April 4, 2015 by Peter Roberts