GMK Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I noticed while visiting the War Museum in Athens a model of a Hurricane in the typical desert scheme, tropical filter, with Hellenic (blue/white/blue) roundels & fin flashes. There was no serial on the model nor subject photo. Did this scheme exist in real life, or is it 'inspired' by real events? Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 It is a fact that at a certain point in the war a number of Greek manned RAF units replaced some of the roundels with "greek" ones by replacing the red with blue. Hurricanes of 335 Sqn. for example carried blue centred roundels on the fuselage and under the wings. The same happened to the fin flash that became blue-white-blue. IIRC the upper roundels however remained in the standard red/blue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Try this:http://www.haf.gr/el/articles/pdf/desert_squadrons.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 This letter appeared in Scale Aircraft Modelling, or the IPMS magazine, way back when Neil Robinson was editor:- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMK Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Interesting! Thanks Giorgio, Graham & Edgar. As always, ambiguity rules discussions of WWII colour. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 1941/42 is too early to see other than RAF roundels on "exile" squadrons. What happened by 1944 is another matter. I think the Greek Hurricanes have been discussed on BM but quite a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 The Greek flown Martin Baltimore`s of 13 Sqn Hellenic Air Force also wore the same style roundels for a time while based in Italy with the Balkan Air Force and after arriving in Greece in 1944 they had the more standard blue white blue roundels applied. Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old thumper Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 If you want a kit of a Greek Hurricane IIB look no further than the nice Revell 1.72 scale kit, only trouble it has RAF roundels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 If you want a kit of a Greek Hurricane IIB look no further than the nice Revell 1.72 scale kit, only trouble it has RAF roundels. Skydecals do a cheap Hurricane sheet with loads of options, including Greek. Unfortunately some of the colours are off, notably the code letters, so it's of limited use. The Greek codes are fine, as they are white. Note the blue roundel centres and fin flash parts down the sheet for the Greek option. http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SKY48052 I don't 'do' 1/72nd, but the Revell IIB/IIC kit IIRC has errors in wing chord, the rear cockpit bulkhead is too far back and some spurious fabric detail, the 'triangle' behind the 'doghouse', follow the line of the hood rail. The last is IMHO the big problem, as fixing it is a lot of work, eg sand off and recreate fabric detail. and the real thing, no 'Triangle' and well shows the stringer lines. more information here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234976948-hurricane-mk1-metal-wing-in-172/page-2#entry1902196 I don't know that any of the 1/72nd Mk II's actually get the fabric right, the Hase kits have the spurious access panel 'ribs', and over done fabric, and this was carried over the the AZ kit IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old thumper Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Skydecals do a cheap Hurricane sheet with loads of options, including Greek. Unfortunately some of the colours are off, notably the code letters, so it's of limited use. The Greek codes are fine, as they are white. Note the blue roundel centres and fin flash parts down the sheet for the Greek option. http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SKY48052 I'm afraid the roundels and flashes are SEAC and not Greek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_C Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Dark blue flashes and roundels are placed around red FGS letters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old thumper Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Dark blue flashes and roundels are placed around red FGS letters. I am sure you will find that the red FGS letters go with standard RAF roundels, the blue roundels and flashes belong to the Burma/India theatre. Greek roundels were completely different being blue and white, much different to the light and dark blue of Far East Command (which are also smaller). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I am sure you will find that the red FGS letters go with standard RAF roundels, the blue roundels and flashes belong to the Burma/India theatre. Greek roundels were completely different being blue and white, much different to the light and dark blue of Far East Command (which are also smaller). Look better at the sheet: around and below the FGS letters there are dark blue circles and rectangles that are to be applied over the red parts of roundels and fin flashes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old thumper Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Look better at the sheet: around and below the FGS letters there are dark blue circles and rectangles that are to be applied over the red parts of roundels and fin flashes. I see them now, I could only see the SEAC roundels in the bottom right before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMK Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Thanks for the assistance, gentlemen. I took some pics of the model in the museum, it had lighter blue markings that were equally proportioned & the blue/white/blue spinner. Seems 'inspired by' rather than strictly accurate. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old thumper Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I have heard a mention that the Greeks may have received a small number of Hurricanes (up to 3) before the fall of Greece in 1941. However I have never seen any actual evidence of this so strongly doubt it. Even if the Greeks had of received these few Hurricanes in the Spring of 1941 then I would be very surprised if they were painted in desert camouflage. But then it never does to be over confident with these sort of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 It looks as though the Hurricanes will initially have had Roundel Blue used to overpaint the red, and hence the dark appearance in photos. One of the Hurricane photos in the pdf shows a lighter colour but this appears similar to a faded Roundel Blue. The lighter colour is the correct shade for Greek markings, hence presumably the reason for using this colour on the Museum aircraft, but a lighter roundel (of Greek proportions) can be seen in the pdf on a later Baltimore. Whether the Hurricanes remained in service long enough to carry the more correct lighter blue is perhaps the relevant question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalako Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I don't 'do' 1/72nd, but the Revell IIB/IIC kit IIRC has errors in wing chord, the rear cockpit bulkhead is too far back and some spurious fabric detail, the 'triangle' behind the 'doghouse', follow the line of the hood rail. The last is IMHO the big problem, as fixing it is a lot of work, eg sand off and recreate fabric detail. and the real thing, no 'Triangle' and well shows the stringer lines. Have patience, something tells me that soon Airfix will issue a new-tool Hurricane as it did with the Mk.I!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Have patience, something tells me that soon Airfix will issue a new-tool Hurricane as it did with the Mk.I!!! Oh I do hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Have patience, something tells me that soon Airfix will issue a new-tool Hurricane as it did with the Mk.I!!!I wish they would do one in 1/48! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85sqn Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I made the 335 (Greek) Sqn Hurri IIb a while ago using the Model Alliance decals: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955742-desert-fighters-148/?hl=%2Bgreek+%2Bhurricane Its The FG-S but with standard RAF roundels. The accompanying book On Target profile 12- Hurricane provides some info about that aircraft. I'll have to check later to see if Hellenic roundels were mentioned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I made the 335 (Greek) Sqn Hurri IIb a while ago using the Model Alliance decals: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955742-desert-fighters-148/?hl=%2Bgreek+%2Bhurricane Its The FG-S but with standard RAF roundels. The accompanying book On Target profile 12- Hurricane provides some info about that aircraft. I'll have to check later to see if Hellenic roundels were mentioned. IIRC the On Target book is just profiles. The actual photo is on page 1. Given that the individual letter is 'sigma' I'd not be surprised in the roundel centre got painted blue, the better question is how long does it take to repaint a roundel centre blue, and how long did then remain blue! Long enough for a photo also http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/questions-on-kits-decals-tools-and-pilots/greek-hurricane-mk-ib-egypt-1-48-a-31087.html has a different shot of FG-Sigma and http://www.haf.gr/el/articles/hurricane/ which has quite a few photos. some are standard RAF for sure here's the famous one, remember if just the centre got redone, the outer ring should be faded as blue did fade in the desert. this is interesting, remember red was the standard spinner colour note FG-H, the spinner is paler than the front of the fin flash. The South Africans used orange roundel centres as well. I'd suggest that the fuselage roundels and maybe even the fin flash got the red over painted until the RAF went no. The fascination is that of modeller for the unusual. cheers T PS Greek site says this Note : For the ethnosima brought the Greek Hurricane not adequately acquired data. Judging from the photos, which are black and often of poor quality, we can say that in most of the displayed aircraft ethnosima is British. A few photographs, illustrated with Hurricane Greek ethnosima. In this advocate and the testimonies of those who threw them. On this basis we can go on safe conclusion that Greek ethnosima the sides and bottom surfaces, certainly never on top, brought little Hurricane MkI at the beginning of 335. All other Hurricane both the 335 and the 336, brought British ethnosima. Though personally think there is good case for the 2 pics above having blue centres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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