A pair of Airfix Hawks in 1/72. Finished.

[Cheshiretaurus]

I was thinking that photo-etch would be the best option for MDC at this scale. As I said previously, what stops me having a go a DIY photo-etching, is the amount of dangerous chemicals required.

Very true, only need two though and one is available in ASDA. but the other (sodium persulphate) isnt. Both should be fine as long as reasonable precautions are taken. But both are potentially nasty with young hands around. I'd like to do some more myself but need to buy a new printer and keep spending on resin and RTV instead. Think Steve should have a go though.

[Fritag]

These might be of use, if not as is, but as the basis for resin masters or plastic card

Thanks for digging them out HAMP man - much appreciated.

In fact I have the Flightpath set so have the white metal bits and bobs already - what I was hoping you'd have would be a spare etch fret.

What I was really - really after was a second rear cockpit instrument panel and side panels - and I see you have used them

Fancy not knowing when you bought the set that years later some idiot on BM would try and beg your expensive etch from you

That said - I could certainly use one of the two remaining front cockpit panels in the back and maybe some of the other etch bits if you're willing?

TVM Steve

......... couldn't you adopt dr_gn's technique? Instead of using drills in the jig, what about small strips of etch frets or beer / drinks cans? The material may be thin and strong enough to give you a sharp zig-zag bend as opposed to a wavy line from a drill. Still fiddly as you'd need lots of little strips slotted into a jig in order to achieve each bend for those tiny zigs and zags along each side. I haven't articulated that too well but hope you get the drift. Probably a completely daft and choresome idea, but maybe worth a quick trial.

......OK I confess, I have an alternative motive , I too have bookmarked Mr C's home brew etch tutorial, and it would be good to see a "live" version. I reckon you would do a good job....oh yeh, I confess again, I fully intend to bookmark that as well

Tom - you're a man with skills to burn - you'd have no difficulty at all doing anything I can manage

I made up a jig for the JP 5 MDC - which worked well:

But the main difficulty I see with trying to do the Hawk MDC in wire is the simple extent of it. It runs up and down the front canopy 4 times and I cannot see any easy - or perhaps even practicable - way of using a jig.

I was thinking that photo-etch would be the best option for MDC at this scale. As I said previously, what stops me having a go a DIY photo-etching, is the amount of dangerous chemicals required.

Very true, only need two though and one is available in ASDA. but the other (sodium persulphate) isnt. Both should be fine as long as reasonable precautions are taken. But both are potentially nasty with young hands around. I'd like to do some more myself but need to buy a new printer and keep spending on resin and RTV instead. Think Steve should have a go though.

I think I'll re-read CT's briefing on home-brew etch.

That said I'm not sure I understood it first time around. Notwithstanding that CT wrote it with such clarity that one might reasonably expect a muppet to be able to understand it.

I didn't do "O" level Chemistry and I haven't got a PhD neither

And I never really understood wot was keeping my aeroplanes in the air either......

Anyways - I've skived of work a bit today and done a little bit more:

The aim for all of these bits is to use them as masters to produce resin cars for the 2 Hawks.

I've just added the supports and tube to the back of the bang seat. Not much of interest there.

I've re-contoured the back of the tub by adding some angled 1mm plastic card - to reflect the shape of the real thing. Not much of interest there either

I have got the front and rear instrument coamings into a state ready to attempt to make RTV moulds tho'. Quite pleased with them.

The front one is a substantial re-working of the moulded in coaming in the italeri kit. More or less completely reshaped.

The back one started off as this from the CMK Hawk 100 resin part:

And I cut it down. Reshaped it, and then detailed the front of it (what I think is probably a moulded instrument cover) out of bits and pieces of plastic card and strip.

Here it is compared with the Airfix offering and before I gave it a coat of Tamiya white primer:

And here it is ready for the RTV:

TTFN

Steve

Edited April 2, 2015 by Fritag

[Giorgio N]

Nice work on those coamings ! Your pictures also show how badly Airfix represented them. The Kuivalainen etch set has replacements to be made by bending etched brass, but they would still need all the bits you've added.

I like your idea of making moulds from these parts, makes sense if you have more than one Hawk in the stash... Maybe you should consider selling copies, they may be popular here

[hendie]

But the main difficulty I see with trying to do the Hawk MDC in wire is the simple extent of it. It runs up and down the front canopy 4 times and I cannot see any easy - or perhaps even practicable - way of using a jig.

quick crazy suggestion as I have only glanced over this thread and haven't fully digested it - (supposed to be working hard!!!)

What about 3D printing a jig ? - you could do it in three or four nesting layers to give you the fwd/rear runs. Add a couple of alignment pins into each layer and you'd be golden.

[HAMP man]

Hold hard my man! If you don't mind pre-owned(pre-loved?) then I will attempt to surgically remove the aforementioned etchie bits from the hulk that was to be the black tiger 74 squadron hawk, that I found in the cavity walling behind the shelf of doom!

[Col.]

Missed nowt Col. Bit embarrassed about there being 5 pages and nowt to show for it yet.......

Only another forty seven pages to go and you'll be up there with Nigel

[nimrod54]

Nuff said.

[keefr22]

Oy, Mr. Friday, my good man, I have a bone to pick with you! Why does your sig still say "In Progress: Thinking about a couple of Bae Hawks......."??!! I've been waiting for you to change it to " In Progress:Building a couple of stonking Bae Hawks......."!!

As such I missed the first six pages of the next Fritag epic thread! Never mind, it was fun catching up! So carry on...!!

PC - It does have the older elections seats...

What a great idea - bang out all those damn politicians before they all start banging on about next month....

Here's the old kit one alongside my WIP effort. The kit version is more of a nod towards the early Mk10 head box than an accurate representation.

Why do Mk10's with early headboxes remind me of Wallace? More cheese Grommit....??!!

Keef

[Cheshiretaurus]

Why do Mk10's with early headboxes remind me of Wallace? More cheese Grommit....??!!

Never be able to look at a mk10 the same way again now.

Job well done!

[giemme]

Nuff said.

That's two of us!

Ciao

[geedubelyer]

TTFN

Steve

Hmmm, that bit on the left looks suspiciously like CGI... Amazing what you can do with photoshop.

[Fritag]

This piccie from the BM walk around was one of the references I used for the coamings. It looks like the moulded cover at the front gets a bit knocked about in service.

I did wonder about copying the dents - but then figured it would just look like I'd done a ham-fisted job to begin with......

I thought I'd leave little scribed details like the fold up stop watch etc. to add to the resin casts later.

The coamings and RTV have come together:

Don't have CT's vacuum chamber kit - and he would no doubt groan with horror at the potential for air bubbles in my RTV mix

I used the 'bombs away' method of pouring to try and minimise bubbles - and we well see how well it worked later today if I get the chance to try a resin cast:

I now have the tub just about ready to make an RTV mould. Only need to add a pouring lug to the bottom and give it a coast of Tamiya fine white primer.

I'm happy that it captures the basis shape well enough for 1/72 scale. I've not tried to include the rudder pedals and mechanism or any pipes or wiring etc. at this stage. I'll add them to the individual casts:

And a comparison with the Airfix tub:

Steve

[Cheshiretaurus]

Don't have CT's vacuum chamber kit - and he would no doubt groan with horror at the potential for air bubbles in my RTV mix

There's bubbles in there!

Tub n coamings looking very nice

[Fritag]

There's bubbles in there!

Fair cop - might concede that the photo shows the odd bubble or two........Bit nervous about it all now........

[perdu]

no need to worry

if you dont tell him, we wont either

but

no buts it looks great, I intend bombs awaying too soon

[nimrod54]

Great work on the tub Steve. Personally I think that the decision to add the finer details to the castings is the right way to go, quite often a lot of these are lost in the casting and appear as meaningless lumps.

[perdu]

Absolute agreement with John on this

I have fitted a cockpit set (Pavla I think, been a whille ago now) to the Hasegawa Jaguar which shows lots of stuff on the back cockpit wall that ought to be away from it

All the very fine detail they provide simply dives into the resin and vanishes

Much better added as separate items, even if it will take longer to get it finished

(see me making excuses for my build on somebody else's)

[hendie]

Very nice. The tub will be an interesting, if not challenging pour.

regarding the bubbles - I have heard of people using the vibrating motor from cell phones to eliminate/reduce bubbles in molding. I'm not sure how effective they would be but certainly sounds feasible.

[dr_gn]

Nice work - are you casting these items just to make duplicates, or is there some other reason?

Could you use a vacuum pump to de-gas the liquids? I've got one that is used for vacuum bleeding brake systems, but I'm not sure it would give enough vacuum, it's similar to this one:

http://www.toolsource.com/silverline-elite-hand-vacuum-pump-p-104660.html

It can be used for pressure too.

[tomprobert]

Delighted to see another project on the go - you threads are very informative and a pleasure to follow.

I have fond memories standing at a crash-gate at RAF Chivenor back in the early '90s watching the Hawks doing circuit and bumps - grey airframe with lovely blue tails... great memories!

Tom

[rob85]

Blimey this will be good... And long! More quality building ahead.

Massively impressed by your other builds but this could be a favourite. Went to valley as a cadet twice, but missed out on the prize of being taken for a flight in a hawk my friend got it instead.... Have not spoken to her since.

Great start

Rob

[Cheshiretaurus]

Could you use a vacuum pump to de-gas the liquids? I've got one that is used for vacuum bleeding brake systems, but I'm not sure it would give enough vacuum, it's similar to this one:

http://www.toolsource.com/silverline-elite-hand-vacuum-pump-p-104660.html

Did once consider one of those myself too, but looking at the spec it wont produce enough vac

Max. Vacuum/Pressure: 25 in Hg (85kPa)/30+ psi (207+ kPa)

Needs to go to less than 1" of mercury and the RTV will have set before its degassed. Besides you'd end up with suspicious looking asymmetric muscles.

[Fritag]

Very nice. The tub will be an interesting, if not challenging pour.

Agreed.

I poured the RTV around the tub last night - and it's nearly fully cured now.

I think I've minimised the bubbles in the RTV by using the bombs away method of pouring - and also pouring it slowly in shallow 'layers' - pausing to let the small bubbles rise to the surface each time and then pouring another layer.

More worried about the resin - as it thickens and cures so quickly there's not much time to to and get rid of the bubbles. I'm hoping that I'll get a couple of decent results out of several efforts.

are you casting these items just to make duplicates, or is there some other reason?

Mainly just because I need two of everything and the tub and coamings needed so much work to begin with I didn't fancy doing them twice!

But also because I can then experiment a bit with a cast secure in the knowledge that if I muck it up (inevitable) I can just cast a replacement

I have fond memories standing at a crash-gate at RAF Chivenor back in the early '90s watching the Hawks doing circuit and bumps - grey airframe with lovely blue tails... great memories!

Chivenor was a lovely little station in a great part of the country. The summer I was there the weather was mostly fine and I have very happy memories of the base and the area.

Not quite so happy memories of the TWU course. Felt completely maxed out most of the time.......

Edited April 5, 2015 by Fritag

[Cheshiretaurus]

More worried about the resin - as it thickens and cures so quickly there's not much time to to and get rid of the bubbles. I'm hoping that I'll get a couple of decent results out of several efforts.

Just an idea, try cooling the bottles in the fridge before mixing, might slow down the reaction and increase pot life. Haven't tried this myself though.

[Fritag]

Hmm - thanks CT. I'll try that. Already done the first pour tho':

And the resin did thicken awful quick.....

Hope the tub mould is ok - as I don't have enough RTV left to make another one without restocking.

Success - or disaster?.......