perdu Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 The oracle has spoke Etch a frame and an internal one too then you can paint the inner frame off white to gleam through the canopy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) On 7/29/2019 at 11:28 PM, Kirk said: If you get a moment, can we have a pic of it next to the kit canopy/frame My biggest issue with the kit canopy was the moulded-in MDC which causes a lot of distortion. The canopy's also too thick of course - but that’s a given in this scale. The test canopy in the middle has had a hard life and isn’t as clear as the first choice ones - so I’ve included the one on the left, not yet trimmed to size, to show the sort of clarity I’m aiming for. Edited July 31, 2019 by Fritag 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 51 minutes ago, Tomoshenko said: but why not try a 2d etch version? You've got the kit and expertise, so no harm giving it a go - everything to gain, nothing to lose. I mean what could possibly go wrong.... No. Nope. Shan’t I’ve lost too many hours of my life to etching on this build already...... Anyways. I tried making a 2D paper template yesterday and it was way orf..........there’s very little margin for error........it convinced me that there’d be an awful lot of tedious trial and error before getting the right shape. 13 minutes ago, perdu said: The oracle has spoke He can bloomin well unspeak he can. See, the trouble with yer Tom is that he’s a dab hand with the metal innit. 2 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 OK With utter reluctance he IS unspoke er Want to etch some Wokka cargo seats in 72th bigness? No Not surprised Don't blame you, I considered it then decided agin it Even Eduard doesn't want to... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) Pose of an early reject MDC etch in the test canopy. Just a look see.... These early etch MDC were a bit crude. Quick and crude method of attaching the etch. In future I’ll anneal the etch to make it conform better to the canopy. Gives an idea of how it will look. The final etch MDC are finer; but will inevitably still be somewhat overscale. Comparison: Edited July 31, 2019 by Fritag 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 The fuselage, all aerodynamic surfaces, undercarriage, and cockpit portrayed in this production are fabulous. Any similarities to Airfix parts, living or dead, is entirely coincidental. No Britmodellers appear to have been harmed in the making of this canopy. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoshenko Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Fritag said: 3 hours ago, Tomoshenko said: but why not try a 2d etch version? You've got the kit and expertise, so no harm giving it a go - everything to gain, nothing to lose. I mean what could possibly go wrong.... No. Nope. Shan’t Ah well worth a punt. That said the MDC and framing really looks the business. Seriously it looks 1/32. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 10 hours ago, Fritag said: Comparison: Etch wins hands down over original plastic 9 hours ago, Kirk said: No Britmodellers appear to have been harmed in the making of this canopy. Not so far .... Ciao 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, perdu said: er Want to etch some Wokka cargo seats in 72th bigness? No Not surprised Don't blame you, I considered it then decided agin it Even Eduard doesn't want to... I was thinking about your Chinook seats, Bill. Bit of a repetitive job that Definite-possible 'Lab of Ced' silhouette cutter task...... Alternatively. How about cutting a few, the ones nearest the back door, in foil so that they can be painted and rumpled and posed nicely - and then having the other ones - more distant from the door and less visible, in paper? Edited July 31, 2019 by Fritag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I have a few paper ones cut out now so I'll be doing something like that Ced, gentleman that he is, offered to look at it but it seems a waste of two hundred quids worth of machinery just to cut out red paper seats I'm still wondering about the inner colour of the canopy, could you 'paint the inner bit with a sharpie or some such? Maximum dark with minimal thickness S'why I'd seek black polycard and mould with that 😠 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 11 hours ago, Fritag said: Quick and crude method of attaching the etch. In future I’ll anneal the etch to make it conform better to the canopy. 're the MDC. A frend of mine tried something many years ago which involved getting some fusewire to the shape of the cord, holding it inside with minute blobs of blue tack and drawing round the inside shape with an artist's lining pen. It all looked extremely fiddly but he got a reasonable result or so it seemed to me at the time. Thinking about that a bit more an easier approach might be to etch out the inner shape on a small rectangle of very thin brass and similarly draw the MDC tracing the shape. Difficult to explain and maybe A crazy idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Terry1954 said: A frend of mine tried something many years ago which involved getting some fusewire to the shape of the cord, holding it inside with minute blobs of blue tack and drawing round the inside shape with an artist's lining pen. It all looked extremely fiddly but he got a reasonable result or so it seemed to me at the time. Thinking about that a bit more an easier approach might be to etch out the inner shape on a small rectangle of very thin brass and similarly draw the MDC tracing the shape. Difficult to explain and maybe A crazy idea! Not crazy; Interesting It wouldn't work on the Hawks with a fuse wire template; the shape is too complicated. I got a reasonable result using fine annealed wire as the MDC in my JP 5 - but had to abandon the idea for the Hawks as the MDC pattern was larger/more complex. I can see that an appropriate etched drawing template and grey permanent marker might be an option tho'. Edited July 31, 2019 by Fritag 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 That JP Canopy looks the biz. 37 minutes ago, Fritag said: It wouldn't work on the Hawks with a fuse wire template; the shape is too complicated. Yes i agree it would be a very tricky challenge on that one! Thinking through the etch/wire template idea more, I suppose one of those template cutters could be used to make an adhesive outline shape on paper or vinyl, with just enough thickness to take the edge of some sort of very fine marker pen.....? That kind of template would be more flexible and might get into trickier shapes. Just throwing out more ideas really, must be that time of year for me! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, perdu said: ...a waste of two hundred quids worth of machinery just to... When did that ever stop an "advanced modeller" feeding the addiction? It's 40 beers (ish). Get it delivered to work so that Mrs Bill doesn't evict you. Best purchase after an equally expensive Valentine's day gift. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicarage Vee Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Fritag said: I was thinking about your Chinook seats, Bill. Bit of a repetitive job that Definite-possible 'Lab of Ced' silhouette cutter task...… Take the man up on his offer 🙂 It's what the machine was intended for after all. I made five dozen, yes five dozen, Halifax bomb door actuators with mine, no way could I have made three identical let alone that many, and it took minutes, it would be perfect for seats. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 24 minutes ago, Terry1954 said: Just throwing out more ideas really, must be that time of year for me! Terry I was intrigued by that suggestion Terry, so I did a quick comparison test. I did a free hand sketch MDC with my ultra fine black permanent marker to compare with an etched effort (and bear in mind that this is a 'pre-production' version that didn't make the cut for quality). And I'm not persuaded that using a template/marker to draw on the MDC will give a finer or neater result. It would be fairly easy in principle to 'invert' the artwork I made for the etched MDC, to produce an etched template; although I can foresee issues trying to use it against the double curvature of the canopy. But I think this is an idea to stick in the ideas locker for later, rather than use on this build 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Thats interesting Steve and that one I agree doesn't look convincing. My finest marker pen is 0.1 mm and I believe you can go to 0.05mm using drafting pens like Rotring or uni PIN. How thin is the pen you used? Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 This is just torture and I'm only watching! I hope you find a solution soon Steve before the men in white coats come to take you away… 14 hours ago, Fritag said: The final etch MDC are finer; but will inevitably still be somewhat overscale Found them yet? They'll be in the last place you look… 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fritag said: And I'm not persuaded that using a template/marker to draw on the MDC will give a finer or neater result. For what it's worth, me neither. I think the PE is very convincing. If it really doesn't meet the realism bar (& I can't see how) I have one (untried & quite possibly impractical) idea: 1. Cover a copy of your artwork in some transparent double sided tape 2. Place pins (e.g. Manfred's super fine "insect pins" that he's using for his Space Shuttle crawler tracks) at the inside of each corner with inhuman accuracy. 3. Wind fine solder wire around the pins, pushing down enough to adhere the wire to the tape. 4. Remove the pins and sand a flat on to the face of the wire that will stick to the canopy without distorting the pattern in any way (hmm). 5. Using skyhooks, skirting ladders etc transfer the MDC to the canopy and wire it to the detonator. Alternately, start worrying about the blast screen and detonator box instead. PS/ Thanks for the pic of the kit part vs Fritag Productions' masterpieces. PPS/ I probably got the idea looking at your JP - No doubt it's not too far off what you did; I'll get my coat. Edited July 31, 2019 by Kirk 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 forgive the intrusion - it's the medication you see. Since we are throwing out crazy ideas... here's one for the pot: Is it possible to use the Silhouette (or other flavor of cutter) to cut the MDC outlines in a material such as BMF ? Now, trying to remove the MDC portion of the BMF alone from a sheet would be ridiculous - but what if a rectangular section of BMF (with the MDC outlines) was then transferred onto the buck. I'm sure you could mark some datums on the non-essential BMF to locate it appropriately. Now, remove the BMF that isn't the MDC from the buck, leaving just the MDC pattern on there, and try vacuforming directly over that. My medicated hypothesis being that the BMF would not be thick enough to leave any embossing on the outside (upper surface of the PETG or whatever material), and in a prefect world, the BMF may stick to the inside surface of the canopy as the hot plastic is sucked over it. Or: provided a cutter can actually cut a profile that fine - can a mask be cut that can be applied to the inside of the canopy, and then a light spray of Alclad whatever metal on the inside before a coating of Klear ? sorry, I'll go and take my pills now... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, hendie said: provided a cutter can actually cut a profile that fine - can a mask be cut that can be applied to the inside of the canopy, and then a light spray of Alclad whatever metal on the inside before a coating of Klear ? That was where my thinking started to go as well Hendie but I don't know enough about these profile mask cutters to be sure I am talking any sense! Although my original take was to go for an extra fine drafting pen (0.05mm tip) and actually draw around the stuck on mask. I think Steve showed that might not work (above somewhere), but I wasn't entirely sure how thick the tip was on the example he showed us. I think I'll just have to get myself a cutter and try some of my own mad experiments! I also like your BMF idea too! Terry 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, hendie said: Is it possible to use the Silhouette (or other flavor of cutter) to cut the MDC outlines in a material such as BMF ? 3 hours ago, hendie said: provided a cutter can actually cut a profile that fine - can a mask be cut that can be applied to the inside of the canopy, and then a light spray of Alclad whatever metal on the inside before a coating of Klear ? 1 hour ago, Terry1954 said: my original take was to go for an extra fine drafting pen (0.05mm tip) and actually draw around the stuck on mask. I don’t know much about the silhouette type cutters either. But they do seem to offer lots of scope for play..... That said, the cutter would have to cut very finely indeed to cut out an MDC outline or make a mask that you could use to spray on the MDC. Here’s a photo of one of my better quality home-brew etch, and for comparison I’ve drawn a straight line and some freehand zig zags with a finely sharpened 2H pencil. I’m not sure what thickness of line that produced but it looked pretty fine and I think the etching process compares pretty well. 8 hours ago, Kirk said: PPS/ I probably got the idea looking at your JP - No doubt it's not too far off what you did; I'll get my coat. Ha. I did try using pins and wire winding to do the MDC on the JP, but gave up as the pins were too chunky! I made myself a jig in the end. Edited July 31, 2019 by Fritag 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I love threads like this. Every time i worry I might be getting too deeply engrossed in a project I recall epics like this and realise that I'm just paddling in the shallows 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 45 minutes ago, Fritag said: Whichever way I look at this cardiac output trace, I can only conclude that the patient dies at the end. RIP brave Hawk, you were a fighter. Well, sorta (with the Sidewinder fit). 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Fritag said: I don’t know much about the silhouette type cutters either. But they do seem to offer lots of scope for play..... They do. Like LostCosmonauts I'm just 'paddling in the shallows' (love that phrase) compared to the likes of @TheBaron and @giemme but I can say that the cut is very fine. Look at the lines on this Oramask: Not the best shot for this but I hope you can see that the blade is very thin. Trouble is, what material would you use for a mask/mould/MDC? A fine double cut on Oramask would probably pull up on the tight corners. Tamiya paper might work but placing the mask would probably drive you nuts… Cutting BMF would probably work but getting a sub-millimetre strip of metal off the backing and onto the plastic would be very bad for your mental health… You could easily emboss something like Plasticard or brass to make a mould but then what could you 'pour' into the groove that would separate out? Resin maybe? Solder? The Silhouette Portrait 2 I have is now under £150 (grrr) and I reckon I've saved that much on masks and templates… but I never was much good with maths when it came to justifying something I just wanted I reckon you should invest in one and 'join the cutter club'. It'd be fun to watch another set of Fritag experiments 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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