hendie Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 10/20/2017 at 3:43 AM, Fritag said: you know its inevitable anyway........... the itch has been scratched.... everything is now on order 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I'm already looking forward to seeing a series of virtuoso etchery sessions rippling outward from here across the forum Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) So where was I? Been preoccupied with work and stuff for several days...... On 20/10/2017 at 9:15 AM, Tomoshenko said: how do you dispose of the chemical waste afterwards? Will you store it in a glass jar or similar then take it down the local tip? I've been storing the waste in plastic bottles with a view to taking them to the local tip Tomo. I'm only using very small quantities so it's not been a bother so far. On 20/10/2017 at 5:17 PM, hendie said: Have you googled for high resolution ink jet film ? I found a few on a quick google and I wonder if that's what Micro Mark is touting. This is clearly a very important variable. I've acquired a few sheets of inkjet OHP transparency film from a local stationer that is much better quality than the stuff I already had - and I have a few sheets of (allegedly) premium inkjet transparency film on order from a silk screen printing website which will be interesting to compare. On 20/10/2017 at 5:17 PM, hendie said: I think you only need double sided etch when you are trying to create some surface detail on the brass. That's certainly true in the sense that you can't create surface detail without double sided etching. But the etching process is much faster (obviously) with double sided etching and this has a benefit even if you aren't trying to create surface detail. The longer the brass is in the etching solution the more chance there is that the etching solution will undercut the resist, and if you're trying to produce a very fine line as I am with the MDC the danger is that the etching solution will completely undercut the resist and etch away the line. This happened to me the first time I tried single sided etching viz: Achieving a more even etch (say as produced by an aerating system or closer attention to agitating the etch solution to achieve the same) will no doubt reduce the likelihood of this happening but even so the longer the etching process the more chance of undercutting occurring. On 21/10/2017 at 4:02 PM, hendie said: the itch has been scratched.... everything is now on order Ha. Now we have an engineer's brain on the task it'll properly be made to look easy and I'll wonder why I faffed about so much.......... In between working I sneakily stole time (on the train back from a conference in London as it happens) to redo the MDC Artwork and make the zig zags more rounded in the hope of getting a better etched result: As originally drafted: And as modified (note the nice fine (0.2pt) registration crosses and squares hendie ). The differences are hopefully subtle enough so that the proper Hawk MDC look is retained. I printed the modified artwork onto the better quality OHP slides - but still felt the need to sandwich 2 films together to get adequate opaqueness (I've yet to test printing in dark green or other colours). And I also followed the advice in the tutorial Bill spotted and hendie highlighted to use the artwork inside against the resist when exposing it to UV. The result was a noticeably more faithful reproduction of the artwork and specifically the corners of the (more rounded) zig zags were nicely captured: And the product was an etch that absolutely captured the fine detail of the Zig Zags.: The question now is whether this is a bit too delicate to use Edited October 25, 2017 by Fritag 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 We sometimes use the term 'work of art' a little too loosely in here Today I suggest redefines it for our purposes The new etch is superb and I can't see any reason that it may not behave itself in application 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, perdu said: We sometimes use the term 'work of art' a little too loosely in here Today I suggest redefines it for our purposes The new etch is superb and I can't see any reason that it may not behave itself in application I couldn't have said it any better, so yes, I agree 100% with Bill here Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Great stuff Steve. To me, those look perfect, a fitting result for all your efforts. Thanks very much for sharing your experiences and methods - I for one really appreciate it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Thanks Bill, Giorgio & Ced, BTW. This is it compared with my first effort: First: Now: Its taken a bit of thinking, testing and input from you chaps to work out how better to produce a finer and less crude result. But I'm nearly there. I think I left latest effort just a few minutes too long in the etching solution as it's a millitad too thin - but otherwise I'm very pleased with it and I reckon I can go ahead and produce a couple of sets (plus a spare!) for use........ Edited October 25, 2017 by Fritag 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 A small point, semantically perhaps The two versions are NEXT to each other Comparison it ain't Chalk, cheeses and silken purses more like 😇 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Fritag said: BTW. This is it compared with my first effort: Looks like night and day, to me - so much better! Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Hi Steve, You kept trying different paths and you got it right!!! The result is well above any expectation!!! The quality you've reached on a so small detail is astonishing!!! Well done!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) I think I've probably achieved a reasonable and reasonably reproducible system for etching the MDC now. In one of the videos hendie posted the author used notched strips of plastic to hold the brass horizontal in the etching solution to give the best chance of even etching and and as a bonus to provide some hand hold. It's a good system which I've adopted. Holding the brass flat and agitating the etching solution seems to work well in giving pretty even etching on small frets like this - so I don't think I'll acquire a cheap aquarium aeration system unless or until I need to etch larger frets. In the picture below you can just see a few small brownish patches of residual brass that still need to be etched away. They actually fell away with a further dip and a quick sloosh around in the solution. This time I kept a closer eye on the etching process and removed it at just about the optimum time - as I got a really nice clean, consistent result without any undercutting of the resist at what I think is just about the right compromise thickness for the MDC so that it will be nice and visible whilst still robust enough to work with and without looking too overscale. I'll do 2 or 3 more and then choose the best 2 for use on the models with a spare or two. I'll use some of my earlier test pieces to perfect the best way of moulding them to fit and attaching them to the canopies. Right - I think that's probably about the right time for me to stop boring everyone with posts dedicated to etching and to turn my attention back to some other aspects of the poor old Hawks. 101 pages in the thread and still lots to do - how embarrassing Edited October 25, 2017 by Fritag 15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 well, what can I say? I'd like to think that I played some small part in nudging you ever forwards to perfection but all I did was copy and paste a couple of links which you would probably have come across at some point anyway. 8 hours ago, Fritag said: Ha. Now we have an engineer's brain on the task it'll properly be made to look easy and I'll wonder why I faffed about so much.......... and in time honored tradition of engineers the world over, the best approach is to research everyone else's trial and error, and only select the good parts to move forward with. So, your faffing about is much appreciated as you have probably saved me hours of futile alchemy. Looking at your last photo above, I'd say that comes as close to 'professional' quality as makes no difference. Nice job! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Wow - full stop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Fritag said: 101 pages in the thread and still lots to do - how embarrassing Indeed But then you are producing embarassingly good things, so why bother? Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Crikey! What a splendid tutorial series on etched metal components Steve. Great job well done sir. Will your Hawks find their way to Telford on any club stands by chance? Seeing your models here is super but it would be nice to take a peep in real life to get an actual sense of just how good they are. Keep up the excellent work. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Turning pixels into metal. Damned if that don't define a form of magic for me. Rave on Fritag, rave on! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 101 pages of pleasure and edification, more, many more we hope to come Steve it just doesn't get better than this for us Carry on skipper, please 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoshenko Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Blimey that's proper bostin' Steve. Prototyped, tested, improved, retested and perfected. You could start a sideline making incandescent light bulb filaments! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 That MDC is the height of perfection. Fingers crossed it will go onto shape. I'd say use brute force and ignorance but non of your work has ever involved that sort of thing. I'm sure you will find the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, hendie said: and in time honored tradition of engineers the world over, the best approach is to research everyone else's trial and error, and only select the good parts to move forward with. And then hit them with a big 'ammer...!! Wonderful etching Steve, the equal of anything Eduard do! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonl Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 That’s a brilliant result. It’s been very interesting to see it develop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Alchemy of the highest quality; I am in awe! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Marvellous. No need for embarrassment Steve - I for one am never bored and I'm learning lots... and enjoying the precision micro-engineering, as usual More please, Sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, keefr22 said: And then hit them with a big 'ammer...!! Sorry.... precision adjustment tool as they were known in the business Edited October 26, 2017 by hendie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Fantastic results! I have a quick question on the ink-jet printing part of your process - did you print the artwork with 100% black as the colour? I found out when making homemade decals that this resulted in a black that wasn't opaque enough. I switched to printing four-colour black which was much better. I think I used 60% Cyan 60% Magenta, 40% Yellow, and 100% Black. This is a standard offset printing trick to get deep blacks and sharp contrast from a four-colour process without having to go to a spot ink, which would be a fifth colour. Cheers, Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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