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A pair of Airfix Hawks in 1/72. Finished.


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Our course badge was much less steely-eyed, but rather ruder. It showed Danger Mouse & Penfold in a Bulldog flying up a valley that had a suspiciously female shape. Ahem.

Wasn't it a JP with the caption 'Follow me through'?

Our AFTS badge was a Desert Island with a pair of stylised sunglasses - the caption being 'Life's a Beach, and then you Fly' (fairly true for Truckies methinks ;) ).

Steve, I've just got back from being on ATC Summer Camp at Valley - the place has changed out of all recognition compared to the last time I was there in the Dom (and gave OC Flying a good 'listening to' after what was a monster of a Break to R/W 01).

Sparrowhawk line is now completely empty, Goshawk line (the old CFS line) is now 208® Sqn with Hawk T1As and IV® Sqn with the Hawk T2. Seahawk line (the old 3 Sqn 'Beach Boys') is now the Mountain Rescue Sqn, and STCAAME is now SARTU.

Edited by Ascoteer
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Wasn't it a JP with the caption 'Follow me through'?

No, though the JP one was a rough contemporary - I remember it because after ours was banned one of the boys found the JP one & we asked the "if their's is OK, why not ours?" question.

"STFU & because I say so" was pretty much the answer. I was course leader of this mob (as one of only 2 GLs), so copped a fair amount of "the Station Commander is not amused" crap from our CO. Luckily a few weeks later the course ahead of us got into deep do-dos by exploding a cabbage via thunderflash beneath the chair of the speaker at a Mess Dinner, and suddenly our course badge was no longer flavour of the month!

The Fun Police also thought our course motto ("Aim low; avoid disappointment") didn't show the right attitude, or some other man-vegetables.

Let's face it, being a stude was a PITA; I already had 4 years' service under my belt, including fighting a war, so wasn't really ready to be treated as a teenager again. Especially since I knew that the stuff we did was lightweight in comparison to the things front line squadrons got up to; catapulting the Wardroom piano over the bow of Ark Royal IV...

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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He was a senior RAF officer (I think retired), addressing a mess dinner at Linton-on-Ouse to celebrate Taranto Night. SEngo at Linton at that time (Lance Kiggell) was the son of a man who actually flew on the raid. So you'd kind of hope the guest of honour could make a reasonably friendly speech, even if he thought all dark blue aviators were the spawn of Satan. It can't exactly have been difficult to spot that there were 30-odd Naval uniforms there (2 courses, plus their instructors), and we were there to celebrate the most famous night in Fleet Air Arm history, after all.

Instead, he started his speech "I am proud of having been part of the team that killed off fixed-wing aviation in the Royal Navy..." - 10/10 for sticking to your convictions, but don't act all offended if the dark blue people (actively assisted, it must be said, by many light blue friends) decide to provide you with ready made explosive cole slaw! My instructor at Topcliffe / Linton was an AWI, so knew more about pyrotechnics than was strictly necessary; the senior course procured the cabbage from the kitchens. The rest is history. It was, it must be said, bloody spectacular and (the culprits assured me) worth every second of the bollockings, threats to chop them on the spot, etc.

One of the perpetrators was a gentleman called George Zambellas. Now First Sea Lord. Hoorah!

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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Instead, he started his speech "I am proud of having been part of the team that killed off fixed-wing aviation in the Royal Navy..."

Well gee, I'm sure he couldn't possibly have figured out why he became the subject of rapidly-disassembled cabbage!

Edited by Jessica
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He was a senior RAF officer (I think retired), addressing a mess dinner at Linton-on-Ouse to celebrate Taranto Night. SEngo at Linton at that time (Lance Kiggell) was the son of a man who actually flew on the raid

.

I remember Sqn Ldr Kiggell. He was the station commander at RAF Kemble when I worked with the USAF there. Nice chap. Unfortunately passed away a few years ago

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Steve, I've just got back from being on ATC Summer Camp at Valley - the place has changed out of all recognition compared to the last time I was there in the Dom (and gave OC Flying a good 'listening to' after what was a monster of a Break to R/W 01).

Must have been an impressive arrival Debs.......

Advanced Flying training at Valley was a revelation after Basic Flying training on the JP. I have nothing but good memories from Valley. The Hawk was an absolute dream and I coped with the course ok and never felt like I was gonna get chopped. I can't describe just how good it was to be 19 and be given a Hawk to go play with.....

Plus Anglesey was a great place to be based - and the Valley officers mess had a great atmosphere. There's a lake near the mess and one of the chaps on my course was a keen canoeist - who finally persuaded the rest of us to have a go - but it took many beers at happy hour before he got his message across - by which time it was getting dark (bear in mind it was Summer so it was many beers) and we ventured out onto the lake......

Canoesonthelake_zpsf5eb8657-1.jpeg

My best mate and I took out the two seater - there's a photo of us setting off - but not one of us getting back. We capsized moments after this photo and the canoe was never seen again........Oh well - back to the bar.

That ended in a good 'listening to' as well.............

Now you can see why I wanted to be a single seater. Two seaters is dangerous.

Luckily a few weeks later the course ahead of us got into deep do-dos by exploding a cabbage via thunderflash beneath the chair of the speaker at a Mess Dinner, and suddenly our course badge was no longer flavour of the month!

Wot was it about thunderflashes? Life at valley was punctuated by explosions.........

Your's-truly was monumentally stupid enough to take it off-base one time..................Crossed a line that did.

Letter_zps39dde025-1.jpeg

That ended in a good 'listening to' as well..........

Come to think of it - the locals were generally tremendously accommodating of out idiotic behaviour.

And so back to the Hawks :)

Concept duly proved - I've been working (well playing) with the ram air exhausts on the two Hawks.

Slight refinement by crash-moulding the exhaust trunks:

2719B5E5-62BC-497C-A9B2-EEEB26C8E31F_zps

D2B0026C-0E59-4F09-B1C7-1FADD4A97E57_zps

Then glued into suitable apertures using thick cyano - which also acted as a gap filler:

9B464298-7702-4E98-9E6F-0E0A97C1ABD3_zps

036B69D0-429E-4C2F-A955-D127D2DF0DA8_zps

FF5E9700-C953-4968-832B-2EA24DDA5E4A_zps

BTW - that triangular 'pimple' between the ram air intakes is I assume supposed to be the upper strobe light (anti-collision lights having been superseded by the brighter/more visible strobe lights by then). The pimples need to be replaced by some shaped clear sprue in due time (note to self - don't forget....):

Pimples gone; quick squirt of filler/primer. Good enough for now. The shape of the rear of the exhausts could do with a little refinement and I may scribe the rectangular panel that surrounds the exhausts just to neaten it up - but all that can wait.

755286A0-60DB-4609-A8BB-6D81E9B335B6_zps

Next step is to carve off the Ram Air intakes and replace them with aftermarket resin ones.

Edited by Fritag
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To think I just bought a pack of U section Evergreen to make troughs like yours, I must have been bonkers :(

I wonder if you are ready to consider an alternative to carving a dollop of sprue for the anti collision beacons, top and bottom

As you realise I had that task for the Jag GR3 (I used Little Cars red Lenses on the T2 and GR1) and was faced with the same little decision

I decide to try a crash mould under the corner of the end of a thin steel rule so I could get that pyramidical and slightly fat at the bottom (ooer missus) shape

An oval hole in my desk of the suitable size for the needed pyramid, a sheet of offcut clear acetate heated to floppy hot with a small penny light (candle thingmy) and a used (for not TOO sharp corners) 6" steel rule gave me a couple of decent pulls out of only three tries

Seen here atop a certain Grey whizzwhoosh machine

I forgot to mention how I made them in my builds Sorry :(

19895864089_9c3b0ed671_o.jpg

The moulded bits were cut off at suitable sizes and after dropping a little dollop of PVA inside (for the strobe bulb) was bunged up on top and below

I'm quite pleased with them and because they came off the same former the sizes were the same too

I love the work already on the Hawks, they are not going to look like the Bl () () dy Airfix monsters at all

Bravo

Edited by perdu
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Must have been an impressive arrival Debs.......

200kt, 500 ft level break.... :whistle:

(Actually it was more like a 270 kt, 200 ft level break from just abeam the threshold)

The lake by the Officers' Mess (Llyn Penrhyn) is now a Nature Reserve administered by the RSPB so young 'Blades' are allowed nowhere near it - canoes are defititely not allowed!

They've also built an extension to the south wing of the Mess (which is where I stayed) right next to the lake. Last week the lawn between the lake and the Mess was covered in Canada Geese. Seems a bit bloody strange to me, what with the lake being so close to the R/W 19 threshold. Then again, I guess I am a wee bit 'old fashioned' WRT birdstrikes...

Ah yes, 'Studes' and pyro's - we were always really rather good at building 'Mess Cannons' out of several brazed together industrial sized baked bean tins which were awesome at firing cabbages (propelled by aerated lighter fluid) across the Dining Room. It was even more fun if you inserted a banger in said cabbage prior to launch.... Sauerkraut at the Oktoberfest anyone? (Yes I gave the PMC at Finningley a jolly good listening to for that one :blush:).

That rather stood me in good stead for Dining Nights at Lyneham - 30 Sqn always had the most powerful cannon (not for nothing were we called Dirty Firty!). A hugely powerful big bang so it was! I eventually developed an electrical method of initiating the thing so we didn't have to piddle about with matches any more. Our cannon became a jealously guarded weapon ;)

As to WAFUs and Tarranto Nights - we had several at Cranditz when I was on the Staff, including a JAFO whom I regularly flew with on 55 Sqn. Somehow (Gods know how!) they persuaded the powers that be to allow them to celebrate said battle in the College. I seem to remember a burning replica 'Stringbag' fly across the Dining Room in College Hall Mess, narrowly missing the Queen's Colour, before exploding in a shower of schermulies...

And don't even get me started about the misfortune of having a WAFU Sqn as a sister Sqn - One day I might tell you the saga of: "The Co-Pilot, The Chainsaw, and the Dining Table"...

Edited by Ascoteer
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The Ark CAG in my era (801, 820 & 849B) used to have regular Squadron cannon competitions. Some of them were highly sophisticated, and unbelievably dangerous in retrospect; I'm blooming certain they wouldn't be allowed now. The 801 AWI embarked with "his" cannon from AWI course, which was genuinely lethal. It was machined from a piece of SHAR oleo that had exceeded its fatigue life, or so he said, and fired golf balls. Had he ever fired it at anyone, it would definitely have killed them. As far as I know it was only ever fired twice; once at Yeovilton as the winning entry to the AWI course competition, when it was fired using the Wardroom dinner gong (moved outside) as target. This resulted in a visible dent in the gong, and b all accounts made a superb noise. The second time was over the stern of Ark somewhere in the Med, aimed at the splash target astern, which it missed (but not by much). At this point common sense prevailed and it was permanently banned - I think he actually had to throw it overboard.

My bean tin, drain pipe and Zippo fuel job, firing field dressings, wasn't quite in the same league.

I too have a chainsaw story. It involves F4 drivers and mess pianos (note the plural) at Mount Pleasant. A legendary hangover, too.

When I look back, I think we flew at a good time. The ethos, sense of humour and attitude is just the same nowadays (the sons of see if my friends are front line now...), but the powers that be are WAY more cautious. They are right to be, but we had the fun!

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As to WAFUs and Tarranto Nights - we had several at Cranditz when I was on the Staff, including a JAFO whom I regularly flew with on 55 Sqn. Somehow (Gods know how!) they persuaded the powers that be to allow them to celebrate said battle in the College.

Perhaps someone pointed out that Cranwell started its life as HMS Daedalus 2...

Explosions are compulsory at Taranto nights. I am already booked in for the Fleet Air Arm Officers' Association Taranto Night this coming November, which will be the 75th anniversary. (Yes, other notable things did happen during 1940, besides the BoB, though sometimes you'd wonder from the press...)

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When I look back, I think we flew at a good time. The ethos, sense of humour and attitude is just the same nowadays (the sons of see if my friends are front line now...), but the powers that be are WAY more cautious. They are right to be, but we had the fun!

I think we did. Everything just seems so, well, grey these days (or maybe I am getting old).

involves F4 drivers and mess pianos (note the plural) at Mount Pleasant. A legendary hangover, too.

Ah yes, pianos. I could tell some stories...

They had one in the TV room at Valley. It was all I could do not to buy any matches!

Edited by Ascoteer
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I think we did. Everything just seems so, well, grey these days (or maybe I am getting old).

I for one am indeed getting old. But as a fully fledged MAMIL one strives manfully against the ravages of time.

As for flying then vs now.

I'm sure Crisp is right to say that the ethos, sense of humour and attitude is the same. And some of the kit! I'd love to experience what the Typhoon is like (although i did at least get a few months on the F16C before I lost my flying cat so had a taster of the whole excess thrust, radar, glass cockpit, sustained 9G thing).

But - in terms of purely enjoyable flying - I can't help thinking that the relative crudity and lack of sophistication of 80's mud moving - big formations at low level, dumb bombs and F4's or Lightnings dropping from the heavens to turn and burn - takes a bit of beating. Having been up to Cape Wrath/Faraid Head recently and heard (but hardly seen) a Typhoon orbiting around at medium level doing whatever they do now - I did think to myself is he or she enjoying themselves as much as we did? And I have no doubt whatsoever that they are over-regulated and over-supervised now.

Not saying I'd have ever wanted to be operational at low level tho..........

Ah yes, pianos. I could tell some stories...

And cars......

S'not fair really. I feel obliged to do some actual modelling before I get to post on my own thread :) Mind you - by that measure today's justification is pretty slim. But I spent an hour or so last night on the delicate task of scribing the panels around the Ram Air Exhausts:

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A little thing no doubt - and disproportionately time consuming. But I hope it'll add a little bit of interest when painted and washed.....

Edited by Fritag
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I'm sure Crisp is right to say that the ethos, sense of humour and attitude is the same. And some of the kit!

I'm absolutely convinced those aspects are the same. I was having a chat with my wartime Navigator friend Henrey in the RAFA Club not that long ago and we came to the same conclusion that there is an 'Aircrew Attitude'.

Of course, some might call it 'Bloody Mindedness'!

As to the kit... Having flown an aircraft (the Dom) with a Mk2 Artificial Horizon (think JP but worse!) the inside of the Hawk T2 was a revelation - 3x MFDs, HUD, HOTAS and they give these goodies to students now. Everything the jet does is recorded and can be downloaded to PC. The groundschool phase appears to be heavily PC/Sim based (no more cardboard cockpits here!). IV Sqn even have a full motion dome Hawk Flight Simulator.

The jet even knows where any waypoint/destination/hold/home is so no more map 'n' stopwatch and certainly no 'Point to Point Nav' on the TACAN. I got several blank looks when I asked about that.

And cars......

Ah yes cars...

Apparently early Ford Escorts burn particularly well. Not that I would know anything about that... :whistle:

Edited by Ascoteer
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Apparently early Ford Escorts burn particularly well. Not that I would know anything about that... :whistle:

I can also exclusively reveal that, when stripped of its engine, the behaviour of an Escort as an underslung load is sufficiently unstable to force immediate jettison into the sea. No-one saw that coming, obviously.

The attitude thing is definitely true. My Dad was a Swordfish & (mostly) Barracuda Looker, and my uncle his pilot (Ted married Dad's sister after the war). Alas, both are long gone now. They seldom talked about their youthful exploits in wartime flying when I was young, but gradually they opened up as I started to progress through my flying career. Their stories were exactly the same combination of youthful lunacy being just about counter-balanced by sound training, just like us, and just like now (no doubt).

Uncle Ted dive bombing the island of Gigha (off the Mull of Kintyre, where there was an internment camp for British fascists) with empty Bass bottles being a case in point; on the one hand by all accounts they made a most satisfying bomb-like whistling sound... but on the other he nearly over-cooked it and pulled the Barra's wings off...

As for the kit, I have finally (after months of looking) managed to get hold of a copy of Tony Buttler's book about the Vixen. It answers most of the questions we discussed in my build thread (I'll post more on there when I get time), but does remind you forcibly that it was a late-40s design...

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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As to the kit... Having flown an aircraft (the Dom) with a Mk2 Artificial Horizon (think JP but worse!) the inside of the Hawk T2 was a revelation - 3x MFDs, HUD, HOTAS and they give these goodies to students now. Everything the jet does is recorded and can be downloaded to PC. The groundschool phase appears to be heavily PC/Sim based (no more cardboard cockpits here!). IV Sqn even have a full motion dome Hawk Flight Simulator.

The jet even knows where any waypoint/destination/hold/home is so no more map 'n' stopwatch and certainly no 'Point to Point Nav' on the TACAN. I got several blank looks when I asked about that.

Did you catch the Rhod Gilbert Programme on the BBC? Alas I think the full programme has now been deleted from iPlayer but there was some great stuff with the sims and real Hawks. Very jealous.

Kirk

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Everything the jet does is recorded and can be downloaded to PC.

Don't like the sound of that. It was bad enough having to admit to over-stressing cos the G meters would spill the beans anyway (well ok - I know that one was sensible for future aircraft safety - and anyways over stressing is just poor flying). But a man's RADALT reading is surely his own private affair.........

Somewhere in the attic I have an ACMI printout from a sortie at Deci - (courtesy of an ACMI pod as modelled on Bill's GR3) from a 2 v 1 (2 Jags vs 1 Tornado F3). IIRC the printout only records brief details such as time each fight started and stopped - the time a kill was attempted and by whom and with what result. Have to dig it out and post it when I get to a jag thread. Aint saying who killed who........Can't remember actually.

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Steve dont forget the 'kids' of today are used to being on view all the time, (what's the term? embedded) maybe they expect it

Now we get to sit back and wait for the ACMI stuff, fantastic

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It was bad enough having to admit to over-stressing cos the G meters would spill the beans

I did a flypast of the tower at Carlisle in the Dom having taken one of the Finningley Hawk crews up there to recover an aircraft that had had a birdstrike.

They did a monster fly by, so muggins here just had to prove she could go one better.

You just know how this is not going to end well...

We went past the tower at 'nought foot six' looking up at the rather surprised faces of the controllers in 'Local', about 1/2 way between the R/W and the tower itself (I am convinced we were in ground effect), then stood the jet on its tail and zoomed to about 6000 ft.

SNIMSOC! (See No Immediate Snags Old Chap!).

Only...

After adopting a more Dominie-like climb attitude I noticed the G meter indicating an overstress of about 2.5G.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! How in hell am I going to explain that?

Fortunately the G Meter down the back hadn't recorded any overstress - it had recorded 1.98G but not the next increment (2.1G IIRC).

Phew!

A quiet chat with the Line Chief and a voluntary contribution to their T-Bar swindle...

Edited by Ascoteer
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Sometime during my last years in the Air Force, a couple of us oldies sat and talked about "the good old times".Compared to then, everything and everyone was much more streamlined now. All the old "colourful" guys from back then were long gone, and there weren't anyone around to take their place. Just then one of the young blokes overhearing this commented: "Hey, you go and have a look in the mirror." :shocked:

Edited by Sten Ekedahl
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A friend - no, really, in this instance it was a friend, not me pretending to be Goody Two-Shoes - became known throughout the Lynx world as Mr. Whippy, because his fly-by story (of a Type 21 frigate) involved not realising that the ship had a flipping great whip aerial just abaft (behind to you) the funnel. You know what happened next already, don't you?

Low fast flyby, featuring loud twang as his horizontal stabiliser hit a good 4 feet below the tip of the whip aerial, which was over an inch thick at that point. He was lucky, in that it didn't take out his tail rotor and he was just high enough for the whip t miss his main rotor blades. But the 6" deep gash in the leading edge of his horizontal stab was kind of hard to explain. Not to mention the fact that the frigate's signal describing the incident reached his CO a lot quicker than he could fly home.

Oops.

A man's Radalt reading us definitely his own affair, but it generally pays not to bring home any bits of tree, ship or other external matter embedded in your airframe!

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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