Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

[Work In Progress]

Have you actually measured the size of the holes on a Spitfire seat rack?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Work In Progress

[wmcgill]

9 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

Have you actually measured the size of the holes on a Spitfire seat rack?

[ErikB]

Early Mk.IX air intake/filter question

Early Mk.IX’s found their way to Tunisia in 1943 with the short air intake. I assume that this intake did contain an air filter? Otherwise the Merlin cylinders would quite fast have worn out…

 

Can anyone help me with a schematic or photos of the inner workings of that intake. Tamiya’s 1/32 kit only provides the intake shape and a blank space on the lower wing to put it on. As the filter housings on the Mk.V had bypass flaps for the air, my assumption is that this intake had something similar too? 
 

I’m trying to depict EN520, FL-A of No.81 Sqn, April 1943.

[zigster]

That's a great drawing @wmcgill, thanks for posting!

That solved my "visual misconception" 🙂

Yet, I'm wandering if there should be something like rubber ring to secure cartridges in place?

The hole being 1-75, flares 1-50.

Something to stop them from raining on an inverted flying pilot.

Unless I've missed a spring catch "below".

Not much for modeling purpose, just digging into Spit-bits 😊

zig

 

[JoeSmith]

1 hour ago, zigster said:

That's a great drawing @wmcgill, thanks for posting!

That solved my "visual misconception" 🙂

Yet, I'm wandering if there should be something like rubber ring to secure cartridges in place?

The hole being 1-75, flares 1-50.

Something to stop them from raining on an inverted flying pilot.

Unless I've missed a spring catch "below".

Not much for modeling purpose, just digging into Spit-bits 😊

zig

 

Hi zigster

 

The cartridges are held in place by sprung steel plates that push against the side of the cartridge, trapping the cartridge against a formed light weight sheet metal channel section. The holes in the top of the flare cartridge rack have no influence on the security of the cartridge, just plenty of clearance so you can push the cartridges into the retainers. The springs are at the back (seat pan side) of the rack and are quite visible when looking down into the vacant cartridge rack holes.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Work In Progress]

11 hours ago, ErikB said:

Early Mk.IX air intake/filter question

Early Mk.IX’s found their way to Tunisia in 1943 with the short air intake. I assume that this intake did contain an air filter? Otherwise the Merlin cylinders would quite fast have worn out…

 

Can anyone help me with a schematic or photos of the inner workings of that intake. Tamiya’s 1/32 kit only provides the intake shape and a blank space on the lower wing to put it on. As the filter housings on the Mk.V had bypass flaps for the air, my assumption is that this intake had something similar too? 
 

I’m trying to depict EN520, FL-A of No.81 Sqn, April 1943.

 

According to the IX / XI / XVI pilot notes, A.P. 1565.J, there is no filtration on an early non-tropicalised Spitfire IX, i.e. those fitted with the original small air intake. I am sure accelerated wear was indeed a problem in the desert, hence the adoption of the compact Vokes Aero-Vee universal dust filter for later construction, and it being made available for retro-fit to earlier aircraft

Edited January 12, 2023 by Work In Progress

[FinnAndersen]

2 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

 

According to the IX / XI / XVI pilot notes, A.P. 1565.J, there is no filtration on an early non-tropicalised Spitfire IX, i.e. those fitted with the original small air intake. I am sure accelerated wear was indeed a problem in the desert, hence the adoption of the compact Vokes Aero-Vee universal dust filter for later construction, and it being made available for retro-fit to earlier aircraft

At least some desert IX's had the smaller Abukir filter installed, obviously in theater.

 

I have no idea if EN520 had this, but I've made MA456 that had it. 

 

Here's a photo

 

/Finn

 

PS: actually meant for @ErikB

 

[Olmec Head]

_{Spitfire/ SeaFire Contra Rotating Prop Dimensions}

Having just lost my contra prop sprue from an old Airfix FR47, I am looking at how to try to make one from scratch in 1/48.  Does anyone have the plans or dimensions of the griffon contra prop so I can look at how to make one up.  

[ErikB]

6 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

At least some desert IX's had the smaller Abukir filter installed, obviously in theater.

 

I have no idea if EN520 had this, but I've made MA456 that had it. 

 

Here's a photo

 

/Finn

 

PS: actually meant for @ErikB

 

Thanks WIP & Finn! I can’t find any photos of EN520 showing the air intake. This is the best I  came up with, searching around through Google.
 

 

At least it’s interesting to see that the rear view mirror is mounted inside the windscreen. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by ErikB
Corrected spelling mistake

[FinnAndersen]

1 hour ago, ErikB said:

Thanks WIP & Finn! I can’t find any photos of EN520 showing the air intake. This is the best I  came up with, searching around through Google.
...

 

Found this on https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/EN520

 

FF 11-2-43 R-RH Cv IX 9MU 13-2-43 47MU 25-2-43 Wanderer 12-3-43 Gibraltar 24-3-43 Malta 1-7-43 Sicily 1-8-43 Engine cut abandoned N of Malta 12-8-43 SOC 13-8-43

 

Seems it never was in north africa, so I guess no filter needed.

 

/Finn

[stevehnz]

5 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

 

Found this on https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/EN520

 

FF 11-2-43 R-RH Cv IX 9MU 13-2-43 47MU 25-2-43 Wanderer 12-3-43 Gibraltar 24-3-43 Malta 1-7-43 Sicily 1-8-43 Engine cut abandoned N of Malta 12-8-43 SOC 13-8-43

 

Seems it never was in north africa, so I guess no filter needed.

 

/Finn

You may be reading too much into those dates, over 3 months between Gibralter & Malta, spent maybe in Tunisia. I think it is accepted this was so & the link in the right column of the page you linked to takes you straight to a report of Gray in action over North Africa with 81 squadron & recorded as flying EN520 on occasion. 

Steve.

[gingerbob]

14 hours ago, Olmec Head said:

Having just lost my contra prop sprue from an old Airfix FR47, I am looking at how to try to make one from scratch in 1/48.  Does anyone have the plans or dimensions of the griffon contra prop so I can look at how to make one up.  

 

What do you mean "lost"?  That's an awfully big item for a carpet monster to eat in one sitting (laying?)  Some boxings came with both contra and 5-blade (I think), so someone is very likely to have spare parts.  I'd offer one of mine, but I"m in the US and shipping would probably be silly.  Find the sprue if it is still within your territory (and keep an eye out for my XActo while you're at it...)  The spinners are different for the two types of prop, by the way.

 

Good luck,

bob

[FinnAndersen]

6 hours ago, stevehnz said:

You may be reading too much into those dates, over 3 months between Gibralter & Malta, spent maybe in Tunisia. I think it is accepted this was so & the link in the right column of the page you linked to takes you straight to a report of Gray in action over North Africa with 81 squadron & recorded as flying EN520 on occasion. 

Steve.

Thanks for the correction. I just thought it was an indication of an aircraft not subjected to N. African dust.

 

/Finn

[stevehnz]

19 minutes ago, FinnAndersen said:

Thanks for the correction. I just thought it was an indication of an aircraft not subjected to N. African dust.

 

/Finn

No worries Finn, it is but another episode in the wonderful Spitfire story. As far as I'm aware, the Vokes/Aerovee filter was derived from the Aboukir filter rather than the Vokes filter of the Vbs etc. I'm guessing that with the arrival of the Fw 190s in Tunisia, the Mk IXs were dispatched to the theatre before the filter was readied for mass fitment. I'm sure the sadly missed Edgar Brooks could have filled in the gaps in the story.  I think though that the advantage the Aboukir filter had was the ability to select no filtration after take off with the positive effect on engine breathing that gave, the Vokes on the other hand filtered all the time with a decrease in engine efficiency. 

Steve.

[zigster]

Thanks Andy @JoeSmith!

Now I'm all clear 🙂

zig

[ErikB]

7 hours ago, stevehnz said:

You may be reading too much into those dates, over 3 months between Gibralter & Malta, spent maybe in Tunisia. I think it is accepted this was so & the link in the right column of the page you linked to takes you straight to a report of Gray in action over North Africa with 81 squadron & recorded as flying EN520 on occasion. 

Steve.

Thanks guys,

Although Gray flew EN190 on this occassion, maybe we know why he had a “duff engine”… 😅 “I was about to land back again with a duff engine, but when I saw the bombs fall I immediately set off in hot pursuit of the invaders. I did not have much hope of catching them as the 190s had the legs on us at ground level and they had a head start from their dive, not to mention my duff engine.”

[Johnson]

15 hours ago, ErikB said:

At least it’s interesting to see that the rear view mirror is mounted inside the windscreen. 

Agree. IIRC some mirrors were fitted there on Spitfires during the BoB. Presumably at Sqn or MU level before they became standard. Maybe Colin Gray preferred it that way and had his altered?

[Johnson]

16 hours ago, Olmec Head said:

Having just lost my contra prop sprue from an old Airfix FR47, I am looking at how to try to make one from scratch in 1/48.  Does anyone have the plans or dimensions of the griffon contra prop so I can look at how to make one up.

Barracuda Studios do the blades if that's any help.

[Work In Progress]

... and the Barracuda set also comes with a corrected spinner. Highly recommended. 

But if you can't find one (I see Hannants are sold out at the moment), or would like to DIY for the fun of it, then the diameter is 10' 4"

There are some very good drawings of the prop, and indeed the rest of the aircraft, here

http://soyuyo.main.jp/spit47/spit47e-1.html

[stevehnz]

2 hours ago, ErikB said:

Thanks guys,

Although Gray flew EN190 on this occassion, maybe we know why he had a “duff engine”… 😅 “I was about to land back again with a duff engine, but when I saw the bombs fall I immediately set off in hot pursuit of the invaders. I did not have much hope of catching them as the 190s had the legs on us at ground level and they had a head start from their dive, not to mention my duff engine.”

You could be right, well spotted. I must admit, I've never picked up on that though I've read this before while researching Gray, a bit slow in the uptake.

Steve.

[Olmec Head]

4 hours ago, gingerbob said:

 

What do you mean "lost"?  That's an awfully big item for a carpet monster to eat in one sitting (laying?)  Some boxings came with both contra and 5-blade (I think), so someone is very likely to have spare parts.  I'd offer one of mine, but I"m in the US and shipping would probably be silly.  Find the sprue if it is still within your territory (and keep an eye out for my XActo while you're at it...)  The spinners are different for the two types of prop, by the way.

 

Good luck,

bob

Thanks Bob, I have a feeling that the sprue went with my Mig 29 Ghost of Kyiv when I threw out all the old sprues when I completed that model.  How you will ask?  I put both kits in one old Eduard box as the ICM box was useless and my second hand Seafire was in jiffy bag.  I started to build both together and I assume the prop sprue went into the bin inadvertently.  It doesn't help to move my kits from the garage to build them in the kitchen and back.  I have now lost one of the under wing tanks although it was in a zip bag and taped to the box.  I am having doubts about this kit built.  I now wish I had reboxed it and put it on eBay.

 

I did look at a US supplier who did a 3D print of a Seafire contraprop in 1/48, that would have been ideal, but a £9 item became £24 with VAT and shipping.  An expensive addition to a £5 kit.

[Olmec Head]

2 hours ago, Johnson said:

Barracuda Studios do the blades if that's any help.

 

 

2 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

... and the Barracuda set also comes with a corrected spinner. Highly recommended. 

But if you can't find one (I see Hannants are sold out at the moment), or would like to DIY for the fun of it, then the diameter is 10' 4"

There are some very good drawings of the prop, and indeed the rest of the aircraft, here

http://soyuyo.main.jp/spit47/spit47e-1.html

 

Thanks both, I did look at the Barracuda set , but the Seafire 47 improvement set is blades only, I thought.  My current bodge plan is to use another Airfix Spitfire 22 spinner and blades (plus an extra blade)  cut the spinner in two and use both bits to make the contra prop.  I did find a Britmodeller post where @steh2o asked about the Seafire / Spitfire Griffon contra prop in general and he worked out the spinner to be 34.5 inches in length.

The Seafire kit was only £5 second hand and was meant to be a fun build, so I am not going mad on it, in fact its going so badly that its now going down the slope to final warning before being broken with a heavy hammer!

 

[Work In Progress]

31 minutes ago, Olmec Head said:

, but the Seafire 47 improvement set is blades only, I thought. 

Ah yes, so it is. I have both that and the 5-bladers with the improved spinner and got them conflated in my head

[Work In Progress]

31 minutes ago, Olmec Head said:

, but the Seafire 47 improvement set is blades only, I thought. 

Ah yes, so it is. I have both that and the 5-bladers with the improved spinner and got them conflated in my head

[politicni komisar]

There is this one too!

https://www.shapeways.com/product/HT4VV6PNQ/seafire-fr-47-contra-prop-spinner-1-48?optionId=63834347&li=marketplace

 

Samo/P.k