Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

[Peter Roberts]

Excellent! Thank you Troy, your search powers are awesome!  

 

[At Sea]

MH434 wing.

 

Apologies if this has been asked before but I’m trying to build a model of MH434 as she is now.

 

I see she is frequenty refered to as an LF IXb which suggests a B wing. 
However I read somewhere that the b in LF IXb was to do with engines (cropped charger) not the wing type as in Va Vb Vc.

To my eye the wing appears to be an E wing with the outer cannon/.50 cal stub plated over.

 

Can anyone confirm if this is correct please.

[Graham Boak]

It was built as one of a small batch of Mk.IXs that lacked the outer mounting for the cannon.  I think it was actually a universal (or C) wing rather than an E, but these are basically the same structure apart from the weapon bay.

 

There were no Mk.IXs with the B wing.  There were considerable differences between the C or universal wing and the earlier A/B wing.  The term Mk.IXB was used unofficially after the introduction of the LF Mk.IX, which did indeed have an engine with a slightly cropped supercharger, which lowered the maximum throttle height by a few thousand feet but provided more power over the majority of the height range.  Incidentally, the Mk.IXc term is incorrect too (but useful).  All Mk.IXs had the C or universal wing until the introduction of the E wing, so no suffix was required.

[Ray_W]

23 minutes ago, At Sea said:

I see she is frequenty refered to as an LF IXb which suggests a B wing.

Be careful, the wartime designation IXb did not refer to the wing type it refers to a LF Mk IX so it's engine type. In the operational record for RAAF squadrons in Europe they refer constantly to IXb's and they're all C-Wings.

 

Edit: Graham beat me to it.

 

Ray

[At Sea]

Thanks chaps! 👍

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, At Sea said:

MH434 wing.

 

Apologies if this has been asked before but I’m trying to build a model of MH434 as she is now.

 

I see she is frequenty refered to as an LF IXb which suggests a B wing. 
However I read somewhere that the b in LF IXb was to do with engines (cropped charger) not the wing type as in Va Vb Vc.

To my eye the wing appears to be an E wing with the outer cannon/.50 cal stub plated over.

 

Can anyone confirm if this is correct please.

I know you have had answers, this seems to be best description

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html

 

Quote

Semi-officially, however, other suffix letters have also been used to describe these aircraft. The use of the “c” suffix is fairly established today to distinguish aircraft with the universal wing and the standard armament of two belt-fed cannon and four .303-calibre guns – typically carried by series production Mk. IXs, although the intended “c” type was four cannon and no machine guns.

More rarely seen are the suffixes A and B. These have caused some confusion, as these letters in earlier Spitfire marks define eight-gun and two drum-fed cannon and four machine gun armament configurations, respectively. It would seem that the designations IXA / IXB were used ad-hoc by the RAF units during the early part of the Mk. IX’s operational career, to distinguish the low-altitude-optimized Merlin 66-equipped LF IX (called Mk. IX B,  from the initial Merlin 61/63/63a-equipped F IX (called Mk. IX A). These designations are sometimes seen in pilot’s log books, squadron Operational Record Books, etc.

 

not in any way possibly confusing!

[WV908]

Whilst on the topic, can anyone clear up which wings MK356 and TE311 have please and how the 1/32 Revell Mk.9 wings would / wouldn't need modifying?

 

Cheers,

  WV908

[alt-92]

TE311 should be an e-wing Mk.XVI. 
MK356 may have received other wings later, I seem to recall an ex-Dutch spit being cannibalized for parts.

 

edit:

MK732 LFIX CBAF M66 39MU 8-3-44 485S RNethAF as H-25 22-4-47 4SoTT St.Athan 1971 71MU 11-71 RAF Coningsby 1974 spares for BBMF as 8633M G-HVDM RNethAF Museum Gilze Rijen airworthy RNethAF Historic Flight PH-OUQ

[gingerbob]

MK356 has a "postwar mod 'e' wing", meaning that it has the bumps over the wheel well, and note that it is using 3-spoke wheels (as is TE311).  So both have the same basic wing configuration.  I can't say how close the Revell kit comes to this without having a careful look at it, which I will do in a while if nobody else answers in the meantime.

 

(Note: TE311 is a low-back, so there's one obvious problem area, unless you get the Tamiya XVI kit.)

Edited August 18, 2020 by gingerbob

[Johnson]

This is the starboard side fuselage from the old Airfix 1/24 Spitfire Mk.1a

 

 

Can anyone tell me what the two objects I've highlighted are?

 

The bottom one looks like the elevator linkage, but wouldn't that have been in the centreline of the fuselage?

 

The top one I have no idea, can't see it on any plan or photo. Would be a shame to remove it then find out what it is. Airfix did research the kit quite well, but using museum examples which aren't always right.

 

Any ideas greatly appreciated.

[Crimea River]

Upper rectangle might be the hydraulic fluid tank which actually should stick up into the area covered by the perspex. 

 

 

 

The bottom thing seems to be the elevator bell crank but it should be in the centre of the fuselage.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Crimea River

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, Crimea River said:

Upper rectangle might be the hydraulic fluid tank which actually should stick up into the area covered by the perspex. 

Fantastic  -thanks!

1 hour ago, Crimea River said:

he bottom thing seems to be the elevator bell crank but it should be in the centre of the fuselage.

As I thought. Possibly Airfix saw it on a side-on plan and added it not being sure of it’s correct location.

 

Many thanks!

Edited August 18, 2020 by Johnson
More stuff

[WV908]

@alt-92 @gingerbob

 

Thanks for your replies;

 

 

The Revell IX kit does indeed have the bumps over the wings so that is good

 

I've purchased the GMR low back spine and canopy to convert the Revell IX for TE311. I'm hoping the work won't be too difficult, although the rear cockpit structure may be interesting to do.

 

Cheers,

  WV908

[WV908]

Another question for those in the know - which Spitfire variants do not survive?

 

I was rather astounded to discover there appears to be not one single Mk.Va - Demobbed has AD540 listed as one, but all other references list her as a 'b'. 

 

Similarly it would appear that the Mk.1b is extinct too.

 

I'd like to count substantial wrecks and rebuild projects as survivors, so in my book there is presently a surviving Mk.XII, EN224.

 

Cheers,

  WV908

[gingerbob]

I'm not aware of any Mk.VI, PR.X, PR.XIII.  PR.IV is arguable- there's a "restoration" project from some crashed bits of Spitfire.  I think the XII is also a "bitsa" airplane, with not very much that actually used to fly formation as a Mk.XII.  Then there's the Spiteful...

[WV908]

@gingerbob Thanks Would I be correct in saying there is also only one HF.VIII and only one HF.VII? (The latter being the only one with pointy wing tips?)

 

It's a shame there's only one FR.47 and a handful of 22/24's. I would love to see one of any of the mentioned marks fly.

 

Cheers,

  WV908 

[Ray_W]

On 8/18/2020 at 11:47 PM, Crimea River said:

Upper rectangle might be the hydraulic fluid tank which actually should stick up into the area covered by the perspex. 

@Johnson

 

Charlie, you will note I've jumped over here from the Eduard Mk I Rumourmonger posts to talk Spitfire de-icing systems. 

 

Charlie raised the question and got the answer on that tank that sits above the oxygen bottle starboard side wall behind the pilot and represented in the old Airfix 1/24 Spitfire Mk I kit. 

 

But, what was its function? Was it the first de-icing tank before being dropped to the normal position low beside the pilot's seat in subsequent marks? I wonder this because of when this type of de-icing system was installed and what was the design. Looking at the Mk II pilot's notes and the Spitfire Mk I maintenance video I can see no installation typical of the Mk V and later Spitfires. 

 

The video I refer to is this one. I think we agree it is an aircraft delivered in June 1940 still with two tone underwing scheme and armoured glass. At 15:15 the image swings from the undercarriage operation control  (no hand pump operation) to the emergency CO2 cylinder and the sidewall is clear of the usual de-icing piping and valve. Possibly not installed but, then again, maybe but a different arrangement to the later standard.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2EHCiZm8IM

 

Hopefully you may have some additional information.

 

Ray 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello everyone... Im building a Spitfire IXe from 132 Squadron in September of 1944, pretty much just like this one. The pilot was KIA over Arnhem supporting Para’s. 
 

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Air_Force-_2nd_Tactical_Air_Force,_1943-1945._CL723.jpg

 

Would this be a standard wing, or clipped wing ? It looks standard and just for my info, what size is the middle bomb. The outer ones look like 250 lb and they're in the eduard kit but the middle one isn't. Would a cigar drop tank be ok in this position in September of 1944 ? 
 

The pilot I am doing is Flt.Sgt. James Hyde of Trinidad. 
 

https://www.caribbeanaircrew-ww2.com/?p=93

 

Any help is gratefully received, with thanks in advance. 
 

Dennis

Edited August 21, 2020 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Hornet133]

the IWM description for the photo says 'Armourers wheeling one 500-lb and two 250-lb GP bombs into position for loading onto a Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX of No. 132 Squadron RAF at B11/Longues, Normandy'  That looks correct, the outer ones looks like a 250 Lb bomb not 250 Kg.

 

Whether it could have a drop tank on the centre line - yes often they did, depends on how close the target was. If longer range they needed a drop tank.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 minutes ago, Hornet133 said:

the IWM description for the photo says 'Armourers wheeling one 500-lb and two 250-lb GP bombs into position for loading onto a Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX of No. 132 Squadron RAF at B11/Longues, Normandy'  That looks correct, the outer ones looks like a 250 Lb bomb not 250 Kg.

 

Whether it could have a drop tank on the centre line - yes often they did, depends on how close the target was. If longer range they needed a drop tank.

I know im tired but should have read the description.  Thanks for responding so quickly. 

[Ray_W]

On 8/18/2020 at 11:47 PM, Crimea River said:

Upper rectangle might be the hydraulic fluid tank which actually should stick up into the area covered by the perspex. 

 

 

 

The bottom thing seems to be the elevator bell crank but it should be in the centre of the fuselage.

I just posted this over in the discussion for the Eduard Mk I in Rumourmonger

 

Just answered my own question on this one.  I have discovered a better description of the silver tank as seen in some images of the Mk I. The Germans, in their analysis of a captured aircraft, describe it as the landing gear tank. My guess it is an oil header tank related to the hand pump operation and could be good indicator for a manual operation undercarriage pump system.  The knowledge is available already because restored P9394 and N3200 have manual gear operation. Someone should have the definitive answer.

 

 

 

[Johnson]

Hi All,

 

I'm struggling to find decent photos / plans of the TR9 R/T controller on the LHS of the cockpit.

 

Does anyone have a photo they could post or direct me to? Possibly Don @DonH you may have it on a plan?

 

Thanks,

[Ray_W]

43 minutes ago, Johnson said:

Hi All,

 

I'm struggling to find decent photos / plans of the TR9 R/T controller on the LHS of the cockpit.

 

Does anyone have a photo they could post or direct me to? Possibly Don @DonH you may have it on a plan?

 

Thanks,

Well it's a start - Item 19. I have more. Just need to dig them out.

 

 

 

Clearer image here:

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235017849-spitfire-mk-1a-tr9d/

 

Found what I was after here actual controller:

 

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/133687-what-is-it-control-switch-thingie-maybe-spit

 

And this site has a great image:

 

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?p=930039

Edited August 21, 2020 by Ray_W
More info

[DonH]

Here is a drawing. A bit grainy, but I hope it helps. Bottom left is what I think you are after.

 

 

[Crimea River]

4 hours ago, Ray_W said:

I just posted this over in the discussion for the Eduard Mk I in Rumourmonger

 

Just answered my own question on this one.  I have discovered a better description of the silver tank as seen in some images of the Mk I. The Germans, in their analysis of a captured aircraft, describe it as the landing gear tank. My guess it is an oil header tank related to the hand pump operation and could be good indicator for a manual operation undercarriage pump system.  The knowledge is available already because restored P9394 and N3200 have manual gear operation. Someone should have the definitive answer. 

 

 

That's exactly what it is. The lines from the tank run to the landing gear hand pump.