Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

[blockheadgreen_]

On 10/06/2025 at 02:51, Troy Smith said:

They don't have a specfic tropical filter like early Spitfires, (the Mk,V with the Vokes or Aboukir filter ) the Mk.IX introduced a universal intake, so AFAIK some variation on this was used on the Griffon Spitfires.

@gingerbob ?

I'm aware there was no specific tropical filter, I simply referred to it as such as the XIV was fully tropicalised from the outset and its universal intake is quite different from the smaller temperate version on the earliest Mk VIII(G)/XIV prototypes!

 

The universal intake on the XIV is completely different externally from that of the Mk VIII/IX, and internally revised though similar. I have all the necessary plans for the internals but not the lines for the aerodynamic external fairing.

[Troy Smith]

56 minutes ago, blockheadgreen_ said:

but not the lines for the aerodynamic external fairing.

@NZTyphoon  posted factory drawings of the Griffon nose, he might have some if the filter, or they were on those.

The rated XIV/XIX drawings were those by Peter Cooke,originally in Scale Models magazine in 1978.

HTH 

[PhantomBigStu]

Thanks again to the guys on the previous page for the assistance with the brigade conversion, my seafire15 to spit12 is in progress, only stalled tonight  because I’d forgotten to prime the lower wing

part EDIT: Nooo the lower wing part can't fit the brigade tops, guess ill have to buy an italari IX the conversion was meant for eventually but for now onto the new airfix vc as a backup 

 

Edited June 14 by PhantomBigStu

[The wooksta V2.0]

The Brigade conversion also takes an Airfix IXc wing too.  Their Tr.9 certainly does.

[AlbertLima]

I've been eyeing up the 1/72 Hobby Boss Vb Trop Aboukir filter boxing as a decal donor, and how accurate are the decals for their respective options of Widge Gleed's AB502 and EP688 with the SAAF? The kit decals don't offer the SAAF orange roundels as far as I can tell.

 

 

[112 Squadron]

4 hours ago, AlbertLima said:

I've been eyeing up the 1/72 Hobby Boss Vb Trop Aboukir filter boxing as a decal donor, and how accurate are the decals for their respective options of Widge Gleed's AB502 and EP688 with the SAAF? The kit decals don't offer the SAAF orange roundels as far as I can tell.

 

 

In my opinion, the code letters look rather a bit too small for 1/72.  

 

You may check it out by yourself by comparing the decal sheet here:

 

https://www.super-hobby.de/products/Spitfire-MK.Vb-TROP-993201.html#gallery_start

 

to the pictures of the original planes:

 

https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/AB502

 

https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/EP688

 

Judging from my own experience with the simple single engine WW2 planes from Hobby Boss the sizes of the roundels and letters were often too small. In particular with the early kits that came out more than a decade ago. Later releases such as the new 1/72 scale F8F Bearcat have pretty nice and accurate decal sheets in the box.

 

The Italeri ones for AB502 look more accurate as you may check out here:

 

https://www.super-hobby.at/products/Spitfire-Mk.-VB.html

 

However, I don´t know whether these kits are available in your country. A good source for SAAF roundels may be the initial Airfix Spitfire Vc kit which features a SAAF version:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/de/kits/airfix-a02108-supermarine-spitfire-mkvc--1260494

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23 by 112 Squadron

[10thumbs]

On 6/13/2025 at 5:00 PM, PhantomBigStu said:

Thanks again to the guys on the previous page for the assistance with the brigade conversion, my seafire15 to spit12 is in progress, only stalled tonight  because I’d forgotten to prime the lower wing

part EDIT: Nooo the lower wing part can't fit the brigade tops, guess ill have to buy an italari IX the conversion was meant for eventually but for now onto the new airfix vc as a backup 

 

 You didn't specify which donor kit wing you were using, but buying the Italeri IX kit is a terrible idea. I did the Brigade Mk. XII conversion years ago, and can't remember which donor kit I used, but for years, there has been a problem creating  the C wing shared by the later Mk. V, and Mk. XII. The newer Airfix VC has the wider cannon breech fairings, which you would need to grind off.  Any IXC wing will require removing the port radiator, filling the hole, and adding an oil cooler. I believe I made a wing fit Brigade's fuselage by splicing in fuselage pieces from the donor. May have been Fujimi or Hasegawa. Enough Milliput to cover the gaps.

I have resurrected a project from earlier in this millennium, to produce four Mk. XIIs.

The worst way would to put 41 Squadron stickers on a Starfix Mk. 21, delete and reposition the propeller blades.  Next worst would be the Merlin abomination, from which I at least saved the decals.

On the workbench now (in order, from worst to best) is 4) a conversion using the ModelNews/Warrior upper cowl on an Airfix earlier attempt at a 1/72 VC, which wing has a scale trailing edge of about 4 inches, and a slab-faced leading edge reminiscent of a Typhoon I.

3) Aeroclub's vacuform fuselage, prop, exhausts, and landing gear with a suitably modified Fujimi 'C' wing, using the radiator and oil cooler from an Airfix Mk Vb

2) Xtrakit Mk. XII out of the box

1) Paragon Designs conversion, grafted onto the Sword Mk. VC kit.  The latter shares a lot of ancestry with the Xtrakit. I think a KP Mk VC would work as well.

I'm following an on-line build of a master modeler who is using parts from Eduard, with the Griffon nose of a new Airfix kit (Mk. XIX IIRC)

He is working down to tolerances of 0.2 mm, so WAYYY out of my league.

Lastly, there is a CMK resin Mk. XII, which I've never seen, and couldn't afford. Their reputation for accuracy is excellent, but I can't find any on-line reviews for this specific kit.

If I were to do it again, I might give Brigade another try. Not much variety in paint schemes, though.

[SleeperService]

12 hours ago, 10thumbs said:

I'm following an on-line build of a master modeler who is using parts from Eduard, with the Griffon nose of a new Airfix kit (Mk. XIX IIRC)

Would it be possible to either post or PM me the link please? I've got a long abandoned Mk.XII build in the Mountain of Doom which has been visible for a few days now.....

[Troy Smith]

9 minutes ago, SleeperService said:

Would it be possible to either post or PM me the link please? I've got a long abandoned Mk.XII build in the Mountain of Doom which has been visible for a few days now.....

I think  this refers to a 72nd build from the other options mentioned.

HTH

[SleeperService]

2 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I think  this refers to a 72nd build from the other options mentioned.

HTH

Err.... Thanks for the observation I'd missed that. Back to re-reading your posts for 1/48 options. I've just opened the box and can see why I stopped..... wing cutouts aren't even. But I have both Airfix and Special Hobby kits to hand which may be helpful.

[10thumbs]

Here is the link: 

 

 

I didn't realize that Brigade made a 1/48 scale Mk. XII conversion, since my main interest is in 1/72.  The link will take you to some very accurate drawings.   I believe that the Italeri Spitfire IX in 1/48 scale is their re-issue of the Occidental kit, which is said to have fuselage issues, but a satisfactory 'C' wing. At one point in time I had an Aeroclub injected 1/48 Mk. IX fuselage to go with the Occidental kit , for the best achievable replica in that time frame. Now superseded by Eduard, ICM,  and Airfix.  BTW, I checked my archives and found that I had built a Brigade 1/72 Spitfire XII using their fuselage and an Italeri Mk. IX kit, which was and is terrible. I used a second Italeri kit - only the gull wing section of the aft fuselage and inner, lower wing join - to improve Revell's 1996 Spitfire Vb. - and binned the rest.

      I hope you persevere. After looking at the Airfix 1/48 Spitfire VC instructions on Scalemate's site, that appears to be the better option. It comes with both wide and narrow cannon breech fairings and the radiators and oil cooler which you would need.

[PhantomBigStu]

@10thumbs yes I’m in 1/72 scale, my donor kit wing that proved not up to the task was a sword xiv one and im currently high bidder on an ITALERI on eBay 

[Giorgio N]

8 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

@10thumbs yes I’m in 1/72 scale, my donor kit wing that proved not up to the task was a sword xiv one and im currently high bidder on an ITALERI on eBay 

 

Personally I'd not bother spending money on a 1/72 Italeri Spitfire, it's a very poor kit. The brigade parts may have been designed for the Italeri kit but I'd rather use almost anything else and put in the work needed to make the parts fit.

If you really want one and don't win the one you're bidding for, I can send you mine for the cost of postage... that unfortunately after Brexit has probably become higher than the fiver this kit costs at model shows

[PhantomBigStu]

18 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Personally I'd not bother spending money on a 1/72 Italeri Spitfire, it's a very poor kit. The brigade parts may have been designed for the Italeri kit but I'd rather use almost anything else and put in the work needed to make the parts fit.

If you really want one and don't win the one you're bidding for, I can send you mine for the cost of postage... that unfortunately after Brexit has probably become higher than the fiver this kit costs at model shows

Kind offer but as you say postage will be getting on for what I can get the kit from amazon so thanks anyway, I'm a mind to cut my loses with the brigade and save the nose for a future AZ joypack kitbash and just build the airfix clipped vc, at least that will be fun and simple, binned a sword XIV within a hour of starting it sunday so that's killed a desire to buy the xtrakit as I assume its a infuriating a kit to assemble 

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Kind offer but as you say postage will be getting on for what I can get the kit from amazon so thanks anyway, I'm a mind to cut my loses with the brigade and save the nose for a future AZ joypack kitbash and just build the airfix clipped vc, at least that will be fun and simple, binned a sword XIV within a hour of starting it sunday so that's killed a desire to buy the xtrakit as I assume its a infuriating a kit to assemble 

 

All Sword Spitfires show their short-run nature and their fit is not up to par with modern mainstream kits. The Italeri Spitfire however isn't a good fitting kit either, the multi-part fuselage in particular requires a lot of work and care to fit properly.

The Airfix Vc is in a different class, would be a much better choice for a relaxing build.

As for a XII, I would probably just cut the nose from the Brigade set and use it on an Airfix Vc, with the gun bulges coming from the spares in the AZ Mk.IX kit (that includes both wide and narrow ones)

[PhantomBigStu]

2 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

All Sword Spitfires show their short-run nature and their fit is not up to par with modern mainstream kits. The Italeri Spitfire however isn't a good fitting kit either, the multi-part fuselage in particular requires a lot of work and care to fit properly.

The Airfix Vc is in a different class, would be a much better choice for a relaxing build.

As for a XII, I would probably just cut the nose from the Brigade set and use it on an Airfix Vc, with the gun bulges coming from the spares in the AZ Mk.IX kit (that includes both wide and narrow ones)

Thanks, decided to cut my loses and bin it, the brigade isn't great, will pick up the xtrakit when the wounds from the sword I wrecked and it heal. Did only start it because I was broke and to impatient to wait for the xtrakit.  Do have a question before I leave about the fujimi 14, how does that build? 

Edited July 1 by PhantomBigStu

[Giorgio N]

56 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Thanks, decided to cut my loses and bin it, the brigade isn't great, will pick up the xtrakit when the wounds from the sword I wrecked and it heal. Did only start it because I was broke and to impatient to wait for the xtrakit.  Do have a question before I leave about the fujimi 14, how does that build? 

 

The Fujimi kits are a bit tricky. Fujimi tried to squeeze as many variants as possible from a common set of moulds and this resulted in two things:

1) The fuselage is made from a number of parts and these do not always fit well. The rear fuselage inserts are the worst offenders, so much that Quickboost offers a resin replacement for the high back variants. The engine upper cowlings is also not a good fit.

2) A number of panel lines are left to the modeller to fill to reproduce the different variants. Not ideal for a beginner, although many may just not bother.

The kit is nicely moulded although light on detail, with the cockpit only featuring a seat and an instrument panel. The wheel wells at least are decent.

 

When it comes to fit, IMHO the best Spitfire kits are the Hasegawa Mk.IX and the Academy Mk.XIV. The latter in particular not only fits very well, it's also very well detailed and nicely moulded. The fact it's generally also pretty cheap adds to its merits. Pity that it's so inaccurate, otherwise it would have been the perfect 1/72 Spitfire kit for many.

The Hasegawa Mk.IX is not much detailed but builds nicely. It's not accurate either since it's fuselage is short and skinny (the wings are much nicer). For a while it's been a pretty expensive kit but today can be found on the second hand market for not much. I still have a couple from a lot that I bought for a fiver each, it's not as accurate or detailed as the Eduard kit but anytime I want to build a relaxing model I grab one.

[PhantomBigStu]

Ok so buy with caution, thanks final final question as I’ve won that ITALERI spitfire ix what’s worth keeping for the spares box and what’s worth paint mule status? 

Edit premature post haven’t won it yet so may have to delete 

Edited July 2 by PhantomBigStu

[Graham Boak]

Nose too short and too narrow.  About right length for Mk.III.  Abandon prop and undercarriage.  Radiator cowling sides slope so saw off carefully at wing and straighten before regluing.  Main fuselage perhaps a bit thin but looks OK.  Wing OK.  Might be suitable to replace Airfix or KP/Sword but haven't actually tried it.

[PhantomBigStu]

6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Nose too short and too narrow.  About right length for Mk.III.  Abandon prop and undercarriage.  Radiator cowling sides slope so saw off carefully at wing and straighten before regluing.  Main fuselage perhaps a bit thin but looks OK.  Wing OK.  Might be suitable to replace Airfix or KP/Sword but haven't actually tried it.

Thanks, just won, so half a spitfire can be salvaged from it when it arrives, will compare that fuselage to the eduard before relegating the unwanted bits to paintmule 

Edited July 2 by PhantomBigStu

[Giorgio N]

Very hard to tell what's worth keeping and what not of a kit as each of us has different expectations and wants different things. To me the only part worth keeping of the Italeri kit may be the decal sheet but then I'm very demanding when it comes to Spitfire kits. Thousands of modellers all over the world on the other hand may be perfectly happy with that kit as it is from the box.

 

Regaerding its accuracy Graham already mentioned a couple of very visible issues, the short nose and the radiators with sloping sides. And the propeller, that really doesn't look like any Spitfire prop

I can add a few other issues.... starting from the fuselage: it may or not be a bit too thin (and yes, it is...) but the worst part is that its sides around the cockpit and engine cowling do not feature the correct elliptic section but are straight. 

Then there's the lack of the fairing between the wing leading edge and the fuselage, that is so typical of the Spitfire. Some have suggested scribing this but the real thing is a 3-dimensional affair. 

The wing... the shape is IMHO not great but what is very weird is that the panel lines for the outer MG on the lower surfaces do not match the uppers. The spent case outlet is so in the wrong place (IIRC one bay too outward). Staying on the wing, the wheel wells feature strange sloping walls and the shape of the gun fairings is pretty bad.

On the positive side, the cockpit is not too bad and can be adapted to other kits. The clear parts are nicely printed but a bit on the narrow side. General mould quality is not great for today standards, it was Ok when the kit first appeared although panel lines are quite wide and not really sharp.

 

I'd say have a good look at the kit if and when you receive it, compare to other Spitfires in the stash and make your mind about it. Personally I built the one I bought many years ago as a Seafire III, shortening the nose, replacing the propeller with IIRC a Matchbox part and scratchbuilding the various Seafire features. I still have one that came as part of a lot but I'm not planning to ever build it. The Eduard kit can be found for not much money in my part of the world and in any case I have a number of these in the stash to cover all my Mk.IX needs

[10thumbs]

17 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Thanks, just won, so half a spitfire can be salvaged from it when it arrives, will compare that fuselage to the eduard before relegating the unwanted bits to paintmule 

If you can get ahold of the Pavla resin U72-114 Spitfire Mk. IX Detail set 1/72 (here's a link to a US source) https://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/accessories-aircraft-accs-scale-resin-spitfire-detail-p-7761.html?sort=2a&keywords=Pavla spitfire

this would fix a lot of the issues with the prop, radiators, and cannon fairings. And a couple of rolled worms of Miliput, smoothed with a moistened finger, at the upper wing-fuselage joins to replicate the fairings missing in the Italeri kit. 

[PhantomBigStu]

Thanks thumbs, even though I said I'm done I have a question, fondling my airfix spitfire vc's noticed on the elevators are differently sized on the main vs starter kit despite clearly being based off the same base CAD file, one has a 1mm broader elevator, is this correct? 

[stever219]

34 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Thanks thumbs, even though I said I'm done I have a question, fondling my airfix spitfire vc's noticed on the elevators are differently sized on the main vs starter kit despite clearly being based off the same base CAD file, one has a 1mm broader elevator, is this correct? 

Those are ailerons old fruit.

The Spitfire had Frise ailerons where the visible lower surface chord is greater than the upper surface.  With the inset hinges on the Spitfire this gives an aerodynamic balance on the up-going aileron (if you get the opportunity at an airshow you'll see quite a gap between the aileron and wing as the aileron leading edge goes down).

Looking at your bits (oo-er!) the darker grey set looks closer to accurate IMHO.

[PhantomBigStu]

51 minutes ago, stever219 said:

Those are ailerons old fruit.

The Spitfire had Frise ailerons where the visible lower surface chord is greater than the upper surface.  With the inset hinges on the Spitfire this gives an aerodynamic balance on the up-going aileron (if you get the opportunity at an airshow you'll see quite a gap between the aileron and wing as the aileron leading edge goes down).

Looking at your bits (oo-er!) the darker grey set looks closer to accurate IMHO.

So they are, I blame the heat.....anyway the darker ones more accurate, that's good as they are the proper release ones, still an odd error to make given they were clearly designed in parallel