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Sean_M

Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

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As you say it’s a Ib which is a fully converted Spitfire Vb with all the slinging points and arrester hook. There were ‘hooked’ Spitfire Vb’s but without the sling points and were not carrier compatible. As far as I understand, all the slinging points are on the underside of the plane so I’m not sure what you are seeing there. @Troy Smith and @gingerbob are your ‘go to’ people here and hopefully they can give you more info.

 

Trevor

Edited by Max Headroom
speelnig error

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That's a Ib from 801 NAS. The emblem below the canopy is that of this Squadron, that generally though would not show anything on the lower end. Could be a scroll with the Squadron motto ("On Les Aura", French for "we'll get them").

Serial could be MB357, wonder if anyone can check if the serial is included in those serving with 801? The History does not mention this unit

 

On a slightly different subject: the picture shows one interesting detail: the wooden wedges in the flaps to keep them at the desired angle for take off.

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MB357 served with a number of FAA squadrons, but this did include 801 on HMS Furious in the summer of 1943.  However it had earlier done deck landing training on Furious with 807 Sq.

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2 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

As you say it’s a Ib which is a fully converted Spitfire Vb with all the slinging points and arrester hook. There were ‘hooked’ Spitfire Vb’s but without the sling points and we’re not carrier compatible.

:oops: I might have been mislead by (or just plain misremembered) something I read an while ago elsewhere about those not existing on the Seafire Ib (not just on the hooked Spitfires) and being introduced on the Seafire IIc.

 

And to the rest that have replied good. Am happy that its an Seafire Ib prob serialed MB357 then.

Edited by Oliver_88

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1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

MB357 served with a number of FAA squadrons, but this did include 801 on HMS Furious in the summer of 1943.  However it had earlier done deck landing training on Furious with 807 Sq.

The Squadrons and Units of The Fleet Air Arm by Theo Ballance states the Seafire Ib for 807 were uncoded. Then gaining single letters for their Seafire II and Seafire III until August 43. States the Seafire Ib for 801 were single letters though right until they swapped them for Seafire III in 1944.

Edited by Oliver_88

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9 hours ago, Oliver_88 said:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205145965 There we go that shows what I thought I might be seeing.

That is an indicator to the pilot that the undercarriage is down. It was connected to the undercarriage mechanism and automatically deployed. If memory serves, it’s painted red for visibility.

 

Trevor

 

EDIT someone has helpfully highlighted it on this photo.

 

https://goo.gl/images/tokUXp

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Slinging points are on the fuselage side, and are for craning the aircraft aboard.  The catapult fittings (can't remember what the FAA called them) took some different forms, but I think (going on memory) didn't appear on the Seafire IB.

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On 1/31/2019 at 4:55 PM, Oliver_88 said:

are those the slinging lugs I can see just above the leading edge wing root?

Yes, and on the rear fuselage between the 7 & the roundel, the front one can also be seen at the rear of the open engine bay on the photo you linked to showing the under carriage down indicator above the wing. Things on the underside would be likely to be catapult spools.

Steve.

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17 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Slinging points are on the fuselage side, and are for craning the aircraft aboard.  The catapult fittings (can't remember what the FAA called them) took some different forms, but I think (going on memory) didn't appear on the Seafire IB.

That's what I had from memory also. But I thought that was also the slinging points that did not appear on the Seafire Ib. Hence my concern over whether the image showing 'T' from 801 was indeed showing them (an IIc is not suitable for my purpose).

 

At the moment am going with the same assumption that I and Giorgio have that the part below the tridents wings on the emblem is an scroll/banner with their motto. Given I've not been so far able to find any detailed period images showing the emblem on their aircraft am going to base the design on the one shown on their Sea Hawks in 1956 in some photographs (and make up the colours and scroll from even more modern images). Same thing for the areas behind the ailerons, rudder and elevator at the moment, am so far am going to assume unless otherwise corrected that those count as interior areas and therefore painted aluminium.

 

Have any of you seen this image before? Found last night and the persons given the image "Seafire on the deck of the Furious, Firth of Clyde 1942" as the header. It's an bit much to ask I know but know anything more about it? Interested in that it's got the Yellow ID Strip as used on the DFS.

 

5830455449_204bdbe12a_b.jpg

Edited by Oliver_88

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i've decided based on everything i've read, that i NEED the Morgan and Shacklady Spitfire: The History book. 

 

i see at least 2 editions, 1987 and 2000. is one of these 'definitive'? if not, is there a reason to prefer one over the other? 

 

 

 

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The 2000 edition has some extra "backstory" added (about fighter development leading up to design of the Spitfire), and perhaps "after-story" (can't remember!).  But the meat in between is unchanged.  As far as I recall the reproduction quality is no different (it isn't great, by "modern" standards for photos).  I've got both, but the newer one sits pristinely on the shelf, while I keep wearing out the older one.

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I find it a frustrating book - some things are covered in great detail, others skimme dover or missed entirely (Larger rudder on late mk 14s for example) and the layout sometimes makes it difficult sometimes to identify where one section finishes and the next modifictaion discussion starts.

 

That said, i wouldn't be without it, especially as I got it from one of those old book clubs for the ridiculously low price (even for the 80s) of £5

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thanks guys! from what i have seen i won't be getting either edition at a ridiculously low price these days... 

i've already ordered Jeffrey Quill's books, the Spitfire Story by Alfred Price, and the Haynes Spitfire Owners' Workshop Manual. I'll get the Monforton book and CAD files later (run out of money this month!). 

Any other Spitfire essentials? (any and all marks(

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jeff.K said:

thanks guys! from what i have seen i won't be getting either edition at a ridiculously low price these days... 

i've already ordered Jeffrey Quill's books, the Spitfire Story by Alfred Price, and the Haynes Spitfire Owners' Workshop Manual. I'll get the Monforton book and CAD files later (run out of money this month!). 

Any other Spitfire essentials? (any and all marks(

 

The three Spitfire At War volumes, also by Alfred Price (Vols 1 & 2 were reprinted together as 'Spitfire: the Complete Fighting History" on cheaper paper with poorer photo reproduction) are worth seeking out - you can get good condition second hand copies on Amazon for a few pounds. Stories about Spitfires with good photographs.

Edited by Dave Fleming

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There was a series of books called ' Classic aircraft, their history and how to model them ' published in conjunction with the Airfix 1/24 ' super kits ' in the 1970s.They are quite dated now with only b&w photos  but I still refer to the Spitfire volume amongst  others They also came from a much earlier period of modelling, when there weren't too many aftermarket accessories around and scratch building  was the norm, which makes them interesting reading I think.

 

John

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at risk of sabotaging my future shopping... 

i'm finding prices on abebooks.co.uk to be quite a bit better than Amazon or eBay. this may be because i'm willing to settle for "library copies", but hey it works if you're into damage control. 

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3 hours ago, Jeff.K said:

at risk of sabotaging my future shopping... 

i'm finding prices on abebooks.co.uk to be quite a bit better than Amazon or eBay. this may be because i'm willing to settle for "library copies", but hey it works if you're into damage control. 

 

Often you get the same sellers on Abe and Amazon (because Amazon own Abe!) if you look at the ‘used’ options

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12 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

 

Often you get the same sellers on Abe and Amazon (because Amazon own Abe!) if you look at the ‘used’ options

Just snagged the Shacklady and Morgan book for GBP 17.30... including shipping to Thailand.

Bought it within hours of listing, but definitely not seeing the same copies of books on Amazon. I suspect any cross-listing is not automatic. If library copies don't bother you, Abe is a lot cheaper most of the time. 

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I find the Mark V Manual quite handy, though the reproduction of some of the drawings is a bit ropey.   It often clarifies matters, and who knew you could put 8 .303 Browning MG in a C wing*?  Why would you, and did anybody ever do so?

Cheers

Will

* there was a special casting insert for the cannon stubs to take the muzzles so the two inner Browning were in the twin cannon position rather than set out as per the A wing.

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2 hours ago, Jeff.K said:

 I suspect any cross-listing is not automatic.

 

It most certainly is not. I've been using Abebooks since 2003 as I've been living in several non-English speaking countries and have relied heavily on online ordering for books, and can tell you unequivocally that all the used books available for a certain title on Abe are not all listed on Amazon.

 

If you are after a specific, rare title, Abebooks' "want a book" feature is very good. It might take some time but every book I have been after and put in my "wants" has eventually come up.

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39 minutes ago, Smithy said:

If you are after a specific, rare title, Abebooks' "want a book" feature is very good.

that's exactly how i pounced on the bargain-priced Morgan and Shacklady book. only thing left on there now is Collishaw and Company (not a Spit book) , but that's likely to remain to pricey for me. 

 

2 hours ago, malpaso said:

Mark V Manual

the reprint of the actual Mk. V manual, correct? i've already ordered the Haynes, which says "all marks" on the cover. 

 

23 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

The three Spitfire At War volumes, also by Alfred Price

just snagged all three on Abe for GBP 17.19 including shipping to Thailand. now i NEED to stop shopping for this month. or starve. 

Thanks, all!

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Yes I meant “The Spitfire Mk.V Manual” which is a 70s(?) compendium of wartime official documents for pilots and ground crew.

The Haynes restoration manual is quite good (seems better than some of the others in the series in my view.  Another similar one I really like is this https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Spitfires_and_Polished_Metal.html?id=Xfk1vgAACAAJ&source=kp_cover&redir_esc=y

lots of pictures of disassembled spits so you can see how the details go together.

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Hi,

 

Wonder if any Spitfire with two bladed propellers took part in the early days of the war or had all props on Spitfire's been changed to three bladed? When did they change from two bladed to three bladed?

 

I have an AZ 1/72 Spitfire Mk. l/II with all three types and have an idea of building an Spitfire with the two bladed propeller...

 

Cheers / André

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3 hours ago, Andre B said:

Hi,

 

Wonder if any Spitfire with two bladed propellers took part in the early days of the war or had all props on Spitfire's been changed to three bladed? When did they change from two bladed to three bladed?

 

I have an AZ 1/72 Spitfire Mk. l/II with all three types and have an idea of building an Spitfire with the two bladed propeller...

 

Cheers / André

 

I'll check but I believe that all Spitfires had received a 3-blade propeller by the time the war started. Only the first 77 Spitfire Mk.I had the two-blade propeller and the first aicraft with the 3-blade was delivered in early May 1939. All previous aircraft were then retrofitted with the new propeller. I can't exclude that a few may still have had the previous propeller by September 1939, but it would be quite unlikely

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