Jeff.K Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 11:24 PM, Graham Boak said: However, as we now know more about the painting of these aircraft, we can rule out the use of even appropriate US paints. As I said some years ago, if the RAF could get 100 Spitfires to the Wasp they could get tins of paint - and this is exactly what they did. Although despite the myth, most if not all repainting was done ashore in a Scottish MU (where required). you say "as we now know".... this is confirmed? source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 The original correspondence has been discovered in the National Archives. See Paul Lucas's articles in Scale Aircraft Modelling, based on this factual data. From memory, Calendar was covered in the December 2016 and January 2017 issues. Bowery was covered more recently from the same sources but also including a little of the surmise from earlier tales. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff.K Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 superb! i may even have those issues already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303sqn Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Bowery was covered more recently from the same sources but also including a little of the surmise from earlier tales. Aug & Sept 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff.K Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 shuffling through back issues of Scale Aircraft Modeller: 2015-12 Operation Newman Part 1 2016-01 Newman and Calendar Part 2 2017-08 Operations Oppidan, Hansford and Bowery Part 1 2017-09 Colloquial Camouflage, Malta Spitfires delivered via Gibraltar started reading. brilliant stuff. saw a post or review somewhere, didn't comment but should have... poster mentioned "the myth of the blue spitfire" being based on *one* photo (which he posted, and which was obviously taken in ambiguous light." now, not it's not only a myth but we humans actually know stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Jeff.K said: now, not it's not only a myth but we humans actually know stuff. Don't you believe that for a second! 😉 [Edit: for the record, this was a tongue-in-cheek comment on the human condition, not meant about Spitfires, Maltese or otherwise.] Edited June 25, 2018 by gingerbob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Well, we know more than we did, thanks to researchers like you, Edgar and Paul. But these things do need to be published beyond the small modelling circles of the internet, and myths will continue their lives as long as older works remain available. As Mark Twain said, a lie is halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on. Lie is a bit strong here, but it is also true for bar stories, pure guesses and reasonable interpretations! Let's not forget that there are a lot of Spitfires on Malta whose appearance still cannot be convincingly explained, even allowing for the addition of Dark Mediterranean Blue to the mix. Edited June 25, 2018 by Graham Boak Small tablets make input difficult, especially with predictive texting! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I managed to track down electronic copies of the two earlier mags listed by @Jeff K & printed off the relevant pages, very interesting reading for one who has followed the debate for some years. The thing I took out of it was that the machines in the Op Calendar delivery that arrived in Malta were a variety of finishes, some in Dark Med Blue, some in TSS, a variation on TSS, & a variation on the DMB finish caused by extending this finish on board ship when the supplied quantity of Dark Med Blue paint was found to be insufficient or rather a greater number of aircraft required repainting in this shade than had been allowed for. Lucas has listed by serial those aircraft which can be identified as being repainted aboard the USS Wasp but while these articles have increased our knowledge base of this episode considerably, there are still & will likely remain, some grey areas. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff.K Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: Well, we know more than we did, thanks to researchers like you, Edgar and Paul. But these things do need to be published beyond the small modelling circles of the internet, and myths will continue their lives as long as older works remain available. TRUE! some people still believe searing steak "seals in the juices" even though science says it doesn't... <ducks> 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: Let's not forget that there are a lot of Spitfires on Malta whose appearance still cannot be convincingly explained, even allowinging for the addition of Dark Mediterranean Blue to the mix. still a lot of mysteries, but being used to WWI subjects i'm used having to make semi-informed, possibly wrong, guesses. 37 minutes ago, stevehnz said: but while these articles have increased our knowledge base of this episode considerably, there are still & will likely remain, some grey areas. or blue-grey areas 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Having converted a spit Ia into a Vc and left with Vb cannon barrels and a spares box with cannon bulges from various IX kits, would I be a able to convert another into a Vb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said: Having converted a spit Ia into a Vc and left with Vb cannon barrels and a spares box with cannon bulges from various IX kits, would I be a able to convert another into a Vb? Didn't the VB have the bigger canon bulges that only the very early IXs had? The old Revell MkVB, despite its many foibles, does have two types of separate canon bulges if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said: Didn't the VB have the bigger canon bulges that only the very early IXs had? The old Revell MkVB, despite its many foibles, does have two types of separate canon bulges if I remember correctly. Now you mention it, yes I’ve heard that is the case, so that case I open to the floor does the eduard kit have the larger bulges I need? (Not at home so can’t check) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 'b' wing bulges are not the same as any 'c' wing bulges. Are you suggesting converting a Mk.I (a wing) to a Vb? Why not just build a Vb, of which there are plenty of kits. You might possibly be able to use the 'b' cannon for an 'e', but I'm not sure of that. Certainly later ones had a different shaped fairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said: Now you mention it, yes I’ve heard that is the case, so that case I open to the floor does the eduard kit have the larger bulges I need? (Not at home so can’t check) I don't know personally as I haven't bought one yet, but it looks like a fabulous kit with lots of different options (going to have to get at least one, I reckon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, gingerbob said: 'b' wing bulges are not the same as any 'c' wing bulges. Are you suggesting converting a Mk.I (a wing) to a Vb? Why not just build a Vb, of which there are plenty of kits. You might possibly be able to use the 'b' cannon for an 'e', but I'm not sure of that. Certainly later ones had a different shaped fairing. Yes, the relatively new AZ/KP kits look very nice judging by the images on their websites. Shape wise the Airfix kit looks spot on to me but of course it's got raised panel lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, gingerbob said: 'b' wing bulges are not the same as any 'c' wing bulges. Are you suggesting converting a Mk.I (a wing) to a Vb? Why not just build a Vb, of which there are plenty of kits. Was seeing if I had the bits already as I have easy access to airfix mk1s. If it’s a no I’ll do just that 8 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said: I don't know personally as I haven't bought one yet, but it looks like a fabulous kit with lots of different options (going to have to get at least one, I reckon). Indeed, brought two of them on release, not yet built the 2nd but enjoyed the first very much 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 55 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said: Didn't the VB have the bigger canon bulges that only the very early IXs had? The old Revell MkVB, despite its many foibles, does have two types of separate canon bulges if I remember correctly. No, they are completely different bulges and in a completely different place on the wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said: Yes, the relatively new AZ/KP kits look very nice judging by the images on their websites. Shape wise the Airfix kit looks spot on to me but of course it's got raised panel lines. The 1/72 Airfix kit has an error in the chord of the ailerons - it fails to have the upper surface chord substantially less than the lwer surface, in the way it should be for a Frise aileron. It's easy enough to full and rescribe though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 This appears to be the Mk.9B story with a new twist. Just to make clear, the Mk.IXs were based on the Mk VC, and so early examples had the wide bulges to permit the fitting of four cannon. Quite a lot of examples are like this. Later Mk. VC and mid-production (most) Mk.IXs had the slimmer fairing over the inner cannon. This is what the Eduard kit contains. The production LF Mk.IX was known in service as the Mk.IXB, but this had nothing to do with the b armament on the earlier and weaker wing. Regards Airfix Mk.Vb: It has more faults. The wing shape is slightly odd, there is a peculiar rise in thickness at the wing root, and the nose is shorter than that of the newer Mk.1, which is believed to be more accurate in this respect. Maybe not enough to stop you making it if you've already got one, but there are better ones around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Thanks for all the replies seems the answer is a resounding no, but now I’m homeboy I’ve discovered I’ve been a grade a plonker, I had the spare Vb bulges along it’s the larger Vb prop im lacking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Good news there- you can find Vbs with the exact same prop as Mk.Is (DH) or Mk.IIs (Rotol), as well as with the newer Rotol (long spinner, airfoil down to the spinner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: This appears to be the Mk.9B story with a new twist. Just to make clear, the Mk.IXs were based on the Mk VC, and so early examples had the wide bulges to permit the fitting of four cannon. Quite a lot of examples are like this. Later Mk. VC and mid-production (most) Mk.IXs had the slimmer fairing over the inner cannon. This is what the Eduard kit contains. The production LF Mk.IX was known in service as the Mk.IXB, but this had nothing to do with the b armament on the earlier and weaker wing. Eduard (1/72) do a release with the large C wing bulge Runner 'G', available in the Royal class kit, kit Fmk IX 70122 and the 'Boys are Back in Town' Czech kit. They actually do 7 different wing/fuselage combinations across the range, with 5 different wings and 3 different fuselages (and yes, I have catalogued them all!)http://www.hyperscale.com/2017/reviews/kits/eduard70122reviewmd_1.htm Edited June 27, 2018 by Dave Fleming 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 49 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: Regards Airfix Mk.Vb: It has more faults. The wing shape is slightly odd, It loses chord to quickly towards the tip on the trailing edge, resulting in the correct sized roundels not fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Sadly no wide bulges in the Mk. VIII issue I've got, for that's what I'd need for the early one I want to do. Regards Mk.Vb, I think the odd wing root is why Airfix got the Mk.Vc wing so thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 19 hours ago, gingerbob said: Good news there- you can find Vbs with the exact same prop as Mk.Is (DH) or Mk.IIs (Rotol), as well as with the newer Rotol (long spinner, airfoil down to the spinner). Indeed though all of my spitV decals are for ones with the larger rotor barring one trop one which as I’ve just done not sure I want do another, perhaps perfect time for some decal collection expansion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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