Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, anj4de said:

So my Eduard Mk.VIII will be all green inside.

Depends when built. 

If you look up the serial here 

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/production.html

This will give you a date, and some other info, and useful if you are doing other Spitfires as well.

 

All the Spitfire photos above are from here BTW,

 

http://flickr.com/search/?w=8270787@N07&q=spitfire

 

@Etiennedup fantastically useful Flickr of WW2 colour images.

[72modeler]

@Troy Smith,

 

Never realized that the  bar under the fixed part of the canopy was unpainted/painted aluminum- I would have thought the upper part of the bar  would have been painted to match the corresponding upper surface color. Thanks for the posts!

Mike

[anj4de]

3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Depends when built. 

If you look up the serial here 

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/production.html

This will give you a date, and some other info, and useful if you are doing other Spitfires as well.

 

All the Spitfire photos above are from here BTW,

 

http://flickr.com/search/?w=8270787@N07&q=spitfire

 

@Etiennedup fantastically useful Flickr of WW2 colour images.

Thanks again for the info...and yes, I have other Spitfires in the making. The right one is the new Tamiya Mk.1 and it is causing me trouble right now. Put the gloss on Friday, still not fully dry. I used enamel gloss, shouldn't have done that I guess. Next time Tamiya X22 again...

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by anj4de

[anj4de]

And more... 🙂

 

 

 

[JackG]

Just one little item, if the applied camou is the Spitfire Mk.I,  the starboard wing had only a "Walkway forward" line extending from root to tip.  Only port side had the line extend to rear of the wing.  They became symmetrical markings once thicker wing plating was utilized over both radiators.

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

[stevehnz]

Thanks @JackG, I've long puzzled over this detail. So, are we looking at Mks I, II, V, VI & XII plus the likes of Seafire & PR derivatives with the assymetric radiator/oil cooler set up or was there a point where later ones of those got beefed up wing skinning?

Steve.

[Magpie22]

13 hours ago, anj4de said:

So my Eduard Mk.VIII will be all green inside. 

 

thanks

Uwe

Uwe,

Not so certain that is correct. I don't know Troy's sources, but I believe that the change to all green interior came later than he suggests.

The two aircraft below are both L.F. Mk. VIII aircraft delivered to Australia.

 

 

This is A58-517, (MT594), erected at Chattis Hill in April 1944. Delivered to Australia July 1944. It was finished in RAF DFS - you can see the original powersocket stencils on the wing root.

You can clearly see the different colours on the armour plate, behind the pilot's head, and that on frame 12, to which it is mounted. I believe the armour plate to be finished in green, the frame in aluminium.

 

 

 

This is A58-529, (MT682), after being recovered, having spent some time underground. She was erected at Eastleigh in May 1944 and delivered to Australia in July 1944.

Still visible is the green of the cockpit area, back to Frame 12. That frame, and the area behind, are aluminium, as is the entire rear fuselage.

Vestiges of the original DFS scheme and RAF style roundels are also visible.

 

I'm not saying that all MK. VIII aircraft were finished this way, but that method of finish was still being employed into May 1944.

 

Hope this helps a little. Good luck with your projects,

Peter Malone

[Graham Boak]

3 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Thanks @JackG, I've long puzzled over this detail. So, are we looking at Mks I, II, V, VI & XII plus the likes of Seafire & PR derivatives with the assymetric radiator/oil cooler set up or was there a point where later ones of those got beefed up wing skinning?

Steve.

There were a number of mods strengthening the wing root, climaxing for early aircraft with the two external stiffeners.  The key improvement came with the universal wing, so the question you have is "does it have a c wing?".  The Mk.XII did.  I doubt that the bowser wing had this strengthening but perhaps check the undercarriage angle?

[anj4de]

5 hours ago, JackG said:

Just one little item, if the applied camou is the Spitfire Mk.I,  the starboard wing had only a "Walkway forward" line extending from root to tip.  Only port side had the line extend to rear of the wing.  They became symmetrical markings once thicker wing plating was utilized over both radiators.

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

Hello Jack

 

Thanks a lot, I will correct that and rememebr it going fwd with the other builds...

 

cheers

Uwe

[alt-92]

Just a quick Wing check question.

If I'm not mistaken, MH434 currently has e-type wing, gun ejector ports closed off, and post-war wheel well bulges on top, right?
So a likely 1:48  replacement candidate would be XVI upper wings from an Eduard kit instead of the IXc late/IXe?

[gingerbob]

7 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Just a quick Wing check question.

If I'm not mistaken, MH434 currently has e-type wing, gun ejector ports closed off, and post-war wheel well bulges on top, right?
So a likely 1:48  replacement candidate would be XVI upper wings from an Eduard kit instead of the IXc late/IXe?

 

No, c-wing (armament) with no outer stub.

Yes, postwar wheel bulge and small blister.  Forward-link type oleo leg and corresponding "notch" in gear well and extra wedge on gear doors.  4-spoke wheels.  Some kind of square-tread tyre, if it hasn't changed.

 

Sorry, not up on all the Eduard wing choices, but guessing "late c"

[alt-92]

Check on the gear bits, I was hoping to swap the upper wing bits with a XVI in the stash but it looks like scratch/mould/trick the bulges then.

[Troy Smith]

50 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

Sorry, not up on all the Eduard wing choices, but guessing "late c"

I think the only Eduard wing with the post war wheel bulges is from the XVI kit, and has e wing bulges, as they were not catering for the vagaries of warbirds.

I suspect doingthe bulge and slot changes for a E to C wing is easier than adding the bulges.

IIRC the Hasegawa IX has the wheel bulges, and separate gun bay panels,  as does the wing in the Airfix Seafire 17,  which has two sets wings, to cater for a wing folded  option.. 

[Troy Smith]

On 21/01/2020 at 07:24, Magpie22 said:

 I don't know Troy's sources, but I believe that the change to all green interior came later than he suggests.

A post on here sometime by Edgar Brooks.   The interior colour change over is likely to be different for different factories.  Like so much of the trivia that fascinates on here,  we are piecing together data fragments, like

 

On 21/01/2020 at 07:24, Magpie22 said:

A58-529, (MT682), after being recovered, having spent some time underground. She was erected at Eastleigh in May 1944

So looks like Supermarine main had not switched by this point.  

 

Great post and very helpful. 

cheers

T

[72modeler]

alt-92,

 

As Gingerbob has stated- do you mean to build MH434 as she is now or as she was when she was delivered to 222 Squadron? Currently, she flies with the torque link landing gear struts, with the links facing forward- see the attached linked photo. When delivered, she had the splined gear struts with no torque links. You will need to add a small triangular-shaped bit between the wheel section of the fairing door and the gear strut section, as seen in the photo- the fairing doors were also the bulged type. She now flies with the blister fairings above the landing gear, which she did not have in WW2. Her current elevators have the extended  balance horns, which she did not have in WW2. She was an LF IXc with a Merlin 66, but has been labeled as an IXb.  (IIRC the IXb label was used initially to indicate the low-level Merlin, but this was dropped due to confusion with the wing type- a.b.c.e) I think there was a pretty lengthy discussion on MH434 earlier that listed all the salient features she would have had in WW2 and at present. You can do a search for it. Next to Johnnie Johnson's IX, she is without a doubt, the best-known of the Mk IX's. (BTW, Johnson's IXc EN398, JE-J, was the Spitfire that had the greatest number of air-to-air confirmed kills attributed to it, with 14.)

Mike

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/295408056802391794/

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by 72modeler
corrected spelling, added text

[Magpie22]

37 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

A post on here sometime by Edgar Brooks.   The interior colour change over is likely to be different for different factories.  Like so much of the trivia that fascinates on here,  we are piecing together data fragments, like

 

So looks like Supermarine main had not switched by this point.  

 

Great post and very helpful. 

cheers

T

Thanks Troy.

Yep, we keep learning something new all the time. I have found many of the posts on BM to have added to my research. The important thing to remember is that research never finishes - it is always ongoing.

Peter M

[Biggles87]

I used the Hasegawa wing with the Aeroclub corrected Mk IX fuselage on my ( still unfinished ) build of MH434. The wing has the post war bulges above the wheel wells.

[alt-92]

7 hours ago, 72modeler said:

do you mean to build MH434 as she is now

 

Yes. Hence the 'check' on the gear, I've got the material. The only bit where I wasn't completely clear was the barrel & blister alignment on the Eduard wings.

Thanks

 

ps: In her time in the Dutch LSK, precursor to the RNlAF, she flew with clipped wings.

Edited January 23, 2020 by alt-92

[anj4de]

Hello all

 

I am on the finishing run of my Airfix 1/48 Mk. IIa, which is P8522 RF W from 303 Sqn. I have used decals from Xtra Decals. Now the decal sheet shows 8522 as having the blunt spinner, wider blades and already fishtail exausts. can someone confirm this? Any pictures of th ereal bird around? Couldn't find any...

 

thanks

Uwe

 

[Graham Boak]

I would certainly expect a Mk.II to have the Rotol spinner and prop.  It may not have been universal but it's definitely the way to bet.  The exhausts could have been upgraded on the aircraft, so both could be correct at different times.  But I don't have a photo.

[gingerbob]

Take a look at this thread.  (Not necessarily providing THE answer, but relevant.)

Edited February 17, 2020 by gingerbob

[Dave Fleming]

Looking ahead to the new Airfix Vc, does anyone know when (a)  the 'wide' upper wing blister was replaced by the 'narrow' one and (b) four cannon fit replaced by two cannons on mk Vs  in production, or was it a field mod?

 

I know early mk IXcs had the wide blister, but there was (IIRC) some crossover in production

[Graham Boak]

There was a cross-over, but the reduction to two cannon came earlier.  This had been done in the field before then, on Malta, and presumably word got back.  However it was decided (before then?   To the Admiralty's chagrin for they wanted to deal with armoured shadowers) that Seafires would not have the four cannon fit, so the problems of the additional wing weight were recognised fairly early.  Four cannon aircraft were still being delivered to Malta with Operation Bowery in early summer 1942, but I don't think I've seen photos of Mk.VC fitted with these after that, until they reappear on the SAAF fighter-bombers in Italy.  The Mk.VC in India had only the two cannon: although I can't think offhand of a photo that shows the bulges I believe that they were narrow by then.  The Mk.XIIs were fitted with Mk.VC wings and I believe they all had the narrow bulges.  However early Mk.VIIIs (all F Mk.VIIIs?) had the wide bulges, so they clearly outlasted the desire for four cannon.

[Dave Fleming]

3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

There was a cross-over, but the reduction to two cannon came earlier.  This had been done in the field before then, on Malta, and presumably word got back.  However it was decided (before then?   To the Admiralty's chagrin for they wanted to deal with armoured shadowers) that Seafires would not have the four cannon fit, so the problems of the additional wing weight were recognised fairly early.  Four cannon aircraft were still being delivered to Malta with Operation Bowery in early summer 1942, but I don't think I've seen photos of Mk.VC fitted with these after that, until they reappear on the SAAF fighter-bombers in Italy.  The Mk.VC in India had only the two cannon: although I can't think offhand of a photo that shows the bulges I believe that they were narrow by then.  The Mk.XIIs were fitted with Mk.VC wings and I believe they all had the narrow bulges.  However early Mk.VIIIs (all F Mk.VIIIs?) had the wide bulges, so they clearly outlasted the desire for four cannon.

 

Thanks Graham, most likely a case of the supply chain catching up with the decision and making use of what was available for production

[gingerbob]

The desire was still there on the early Mk.VIII.