Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

[gingerbob]

Biggles, I am convinced that the ailerons are "silver", and the black/white reverse story is just a mis-interpretation of photos. The aileron against the black wing "looks" white, while the aileron against the white wing (in shadow) "looks" black. There were restrictions about repainting control surfaces, to maintain balance/avoid flutter, which would explain them still being silver. There's no explanation that I know of for why they'd have reversed the colors.

bob

Edited March 25, 2015 by gingerbob

[politicni komisar]

While searching for information for 32 sq Spitfires in Italy and Yugoslavia WWII

I found this on the internet but the picture is difficult to read serial numbers

terrain looks like an island of Vis,the presence of TITO Partizan around aircraft.

image source is not known to me or who knows more?

P.k

[Work In Progress]

Biggles, I am convinced that the ailerons are "silver", and the black/white reverse story is just a mis-interpretation of photos. The aileron against the black wing "looks" white, while the aileron against the white wing (in shadow) "looks" black. There were restrictions about repainting control surfaces, to maintain balance/avoid flutter, which would explain them still being silver. There's no explanation that I know of for why they'd have reversed the colors.

bob

I agree entirely with this.

[Giorgio N]

While searching for information for 32 sq Spitfires in Italy and Yugoslavia WWII

I found this on the internet but the picture is difficult to read serial numbers

terrain looks like an island of Vis,the presence of TITO Partizan around aircraft.

image source is not known to me or who knows more?

P.k

Very interesting picture !

The last 3 of the serial number on the high altitude scheme aircraft seem to be 693, could be MA693 that is known to have served with this unit.

While no unit detail is given, MJ693 is also listed in The History as having served in the Med. theatre

The aircraft in the foreground seems to have serial MHxx0, guess the only option would be to look at all the possible serial combination and see if any of these served in the theatre

[Edgar]

There is a pin through the top of the leg (as you might expect). It is positioned at an angle (or skewed) to the normal axes of the leg - perhaps Edgar has a picture to hand that he could show? As the leg rotates outward it also moves around.

This is the best I can do; the pin (or "pintle" as Supermarine have it) is set at an angle, which sends the leg backwards, as well as outwards, as it retracts. When the leg was pushed forward, in the universal wing of the Vc and others, they simply fitted a wedge of metal between the spar and the pintle, which did the job:-

[Edgar]

I would go for the control surfaces being left in the original painted aluminium. Is there any documentation for this scheme?

This gives a fairly strong clue:-

Black on white, and white on black, would have given Dowding apoplexy had he seen it; he was decidedly unimpressed when the first Hurricanes had their wing centre sections left in silver.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Edgar

[politicni komisar]

Very interesting picture !

The last 3 of the serial number on the high altitude scheme aircraft seem to be 693, could be MA693 that is known to have served with this unit.

While no unit detail is given, MJ693 is also listed in The History as having served in the Med. theatre

The aircraft in the foreground seems to have serial MHxx0, guess the only option would be to look at all the possible serial combination and see if any of these served in the theatre

Thanks for basic info for MA 693 serial number now im hawe info of the pilot, W.Humm . no know oficial rank

[Biggles87]

Thanks Edgar for the copy of the Minute (I just knew you would have something ) and Gingerbob and Work In Progress.

I thought that was the case. I remember from my ATC gliding days that the control surfaces of our gliders were not covered with Dayglo material for those exact reasons, as was the case with a number of RAF trainer aircraft of that period.

John

[markleecarter]

Fascinating document Edgar, thanks for posting it. Can I just ask what the context is? That is to say who were the minutes from and for whom were they intended?

[Seawinder]

I agree with Cap'n Boak. We should use Port and Starboard - we are British after all

Actually, some of us aren't British. I happen to be American, and I'm happy to reassure you that we use port and starboard as well (not to mention bow and stern) when talking about boats, aircraft, etc.

[Edgar]

Can I just ask what the context is? That is to say who were the minutes from and for whom were they intended?

It's extremely difficult to say, most of the time; during the war, executives were normally known by initials, such as D.D.R., D.O.R., etc. The subject was the black/white scheme, with several other memos and letters within its folder. Files often have Memo Forms attached, which indicate that it could be sent to various people, for information, each of whom might add a note about their thoughts (sometimes adding a usually unreadable signature,) then pass it on to the next set of initials, and so on.

This is a typical distribution list, and, without a mark on it, it's impossible to say what position the recipient held, never mind his name or department. With files closed for a minimum of 30 years (though that, at present, is in the process of being reduced to 20,) information tends to disappear in the mists of time:-

Edited March 26, 2015 by Edgar

[gingerbob]

From Director (?) of Operational Requirements, but I don't remember what RDL1(a) stood for. It is a common one, just don't remember.

bob

[Av8fan]

I think that R. Saundby is http://ww2db.com/person_bio.php?person_id=636

RDL1 well, no idea what the 1(a) is, but I found reference to Assistant director of research & development landplanes.

Dated 1943, this a cross reference of U.S. Military terminology to British terms. Would the meaning have changed from 1939 to 1943?

It is 217 pages. See page 113

http://www.digitalhistoryarchive.com/uploads/2/5/4/1/25411694/british_military_terminology.pdf

Edited March 26, 2015 by Av8fan

[Sky Pilot]

I am trying to determine the true correct code for LF IXc serial MJ532. The production list gives it as UF-P but the Xtradecal sheet X48-1223 gives it as UF-G. The histories for the two codes are quite different. Also, the decal sheet shows a note for MJ 532 as follows

Stbd side - Apply decals 29 BEFORE applying 28

WHY ? Decals 29 are fin flashes whilst decals 28 are the wing underside roundels. Cant see the relevance of the note - the flashes and roundels are some distance apart..

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

[Giorgio N]

I am trying to determine the true correct code for LF IXc serial MJ532. The production list gives it as UF-P but the Xtradecal sheet X48-1223 gives it as UF-G. The histories for the two codes are quite different. Also, the decal sheet shows a note for MJ 532 as follows

Stbd side - Apply decals 29 BEFORE applying 28

WHY ? Decals 29 are fin flashes whilst decals 28 are the wing underside roundels. Cant see the relevance of the note - the flashes and roundels are some distance apart..

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Can't help with the decal instructions, however MJ532 was indeed UF-G. Haven't seen the decal sheet, but I'd expect the depiction of this subject is based on a well known picture showing this aircraft taking off with MJ250 from Fano airfield in Italy. The picture is well known mainly because MJ250 is in an unusual natural metal finish. The picture is in Osprey's "Spitfire Aces of North Africa and Italy"

[Sky Pilot]

I'm having great difficulty finding examples of the LF IXc with clipped wings for which 1/48 decals are readily available. So far I have found only one example, UF-G MJ532 - Xtradecal sheet X48-123. However, the veracity of MJ532 having a clipped wing is questionable. Other than "the" photo of MJ532 taking off with MJ250 is there any further information which would clarify this issue.

OH! And could any one identify other suitable subjects ?

John

[Sky Pilot]

I apologise for this being off topic but I'm about to enter the world of photo etch, via the Eduard ProfiPACK kits, and would appreciate any advice on the necessary tools and tips on the techniques involved.

John

[gingerbob]

Please, ask a question like that on its own thread!

bob

Edited April 2, 2015 by gingerbob

[Work In Progress]

And ideally in the correct forum, which is here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/85-modelling-tips/

Edited April 2, 2015 by Work In Progress

[mike romeo]

Chaps,

Another Spitfire question: What size ID codes did Spitfires generally wear in NW Europe post 1942? I'm aware there were many differences on individual Spitfires, but I'm talking a generic "standard" Spitfire in DG / OG / MSG scheme in 1944. I thought these were 20" height in Sky (18" looks too small; 24" too large). Is this correct?

Also, does any decal company do a generic code sheet in this size? Looking at the Big H website, I can't see any . . .

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Martin

[Edgar]

Spitfire Squadrons were given a special dispensation to use 20" codes, while other aircraft were expected to retain 24". The reason was the lack of vertical area between the top of the wingroot fairing and the bottom of the canopy (when open.) Some Squadrons did, others didn't, and it really needs a photo to be absolutely certain.

[Giorgio N]

Chaps,

Another Spitfire question: What size ID codes did Spitfires generally wear in NW Europe post 1942? I'm aware there were many differences on individual Spitfires, but I'm talking a generic "standard" Spitfire in DG / OG / MSG scheme in 1944. I thought these were 20" height in Sky (18" looks too small; 24" too large). Is this correct?

Also, does any decal company do a generic code sheet in this size? Looking at the Big H website, I can't see any . . .

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Martin

Really it would be good to have both 20" and 24" size letters and numbers ! Both sizes were used (actually some units seem to have used 18" codes too, particularly at the end of the war) and there's another thing to consider: generic letters may be accurate but often the kits are not ! Therefore it can be necessary to use codes of an inaccurate size to recreate the correct proportions on an inaccurate kit. An example is the too short and skinny rear fuselage of the 1/72 Hasegawa Spitfire IX, where correctly sized codes would look too big.

Unfortunately I don't know of any source for 20" letters in sky

[mike romeo]

OK, thanks for that. If I can't cobble together 20" from my decal bank, I may use 24" as I have no photo reference.

regards,

Martin

[Seawinder]

OK, thanks for that. If I can't cobble together 20" from my decal bank, I may use 24" as I have no photo reference.

regards,

Martin

You could also do (or have someone do for you) "artwork" of the codes you need and have custom masks cut. Miracle Masks is a gentleman named Mal Mayfield, who lives in GB. His masks are very well reviewed. There's contact info at his website if you're interested:

http://www.freewebs.com/miraclemasks/

[Tanis-UK]

Ok, new to aircraft modeling so if this has been discussed sorry, I am building the revell mk2a spitfire and using eduards photoetch, so here is my stupid questions, does the mk2 have the lever at the left of the seat, I think it works the radiator, also would it have the height and airspeed computor On the starboard side, next on the ip next to the compass what control is there, as eduard show nothing after replacing with photoetch, now the question that will prove I know nothing about aircraft, whats that coke ring pull thing by the seat? Any help would be realy appreciated, thank you.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Tanis-UK