AjD Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 That is all really useful Phone Phixer, thank you so much. I wasn't aware of any of that. Like you, I may draw a line under trying to alter the seat but I will now go and have a look at least. I appreciate the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 So heres me with a kit designed to be all opened up yet I want it closed and you have a closed up kit and want it all open... Im struggling to work out whos the most sadistic. Im thinking youre winning those stakes though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Haha! That is quite a good point What I'd ask you to note though is that I've had this planned for years and when KH came along I immediately thought 'ahaah!' Then I saw pictures and heard the talk about it and though 'ohhh...' Thus I am now back at plan A thinking this is an awful lot of work but as I'm still enjoying it I'll not worry too much just yet. When I run out of steam or (more likely) time I may think it was a bad idea but for now I'll keep sadistically plodding on...Oh yes...and I'm also not the one who's just posted another open Phantom box accompanied by the word 'oops!' How are the three builds going?! 15 all... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 To be fair, part of my KH Jag will be open I suspect, due to, well, yknow... But honestly I think we are both mad, as if we both had a good example of each others kit then I think we would be having a much easier time of things. But hey, wheres the "fun" in that? Its actually 5 builds here... All of which I think are further on than yours. 30/15? Or is it 15/30? Tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 30/15...you served. However, I'd say you undermined your position somewhat with this blinder... Its actually 5 builds here... So we'll call it a net fault and revert to 15 all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 poo-poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 That is all really useful Phone Phixer, thank you so much. I wasn't aware of any of that. Like you, I may draw a line under trying to alter the seat but I will now go and have a look at least. I appreciate the advice. Yes, like you say there is only so much you can do with the seat. I ended up removing the said rogue oxy hose. I also scratch built a QRF for the seat harness, as this is missing on the NeOmega seat and was a pretty obvious piece laying on the PSP cushion! Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Thanks ever so much for the pointers Rob. I've just hooked the seat out and immediately see the lack of QRF. Got the oxy hose you're referring to as well. Beautifully moulded little detail but agreed that'll have to go and smooth down the blanking plate on the connector bracket. This will take some head scratching to achieve without damaging the rest as there's a seat belt draped over the top of it! Future Andy's problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I removed most of the hose but left the connector bracket in place as this is the area of the AR5 NBC connector with its short section of hose. Picture from the excellent BM walkround section on the Jag. You can also see one of the light grey cabin valves I referred to in post #150. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) I've been wondering about something I read in Martin Bowman's book recently and thought maybe one of the ex-Jag mates on here might be able to shed some light. I chuckled as it said the Jag's roll rate or turn rate (can't quite remember which unless I look it up again) was best measured with a calendar! I know the Jag wasn't blessed with wing area and therefore had high wing loading but was this a bit unfair? It later spoke about the guys performing admirably against MiG-29s on one of the last overseas dets so can it really have been that bad? Turn rate. Weren't much wrong with the roll rate - FWIW High wing loading & low thrust to weight = poor turn. That said - a clean Jag had an 8G limit which was pretty good and so the first turn or two - whilst still at high speed - following a neutral engagement was good hard work. Plus no fly by wire to prevent an overstress - so it was all manual skill. Made the exercise fun - if not necessarily effective High wing loading gives as smooth as possible a ride at high speed at low level. Hard to think - let alone operate - if your head's being bounced off the canopy As for performing well against air-defenders. It required lots of help from the fighter controllers to make up for the lack of a radar and manoeuvrability. I've heard that operating the MiG 29 radar involved a high workload and so Jags equipped with AIM 9L's and a lot of range/distance etc. info from the fighter controllers could manoeuvre towards a head-on merge so as to avoid a radar shot and then - whilst the MIG drivers were trying to transition from heads in to heads out - take forward aspect AIM 9L shots at the merge. Ain't no way a Jag could live with a MIG 29 - or any other air defender - in a manoeuvering fight. The NeOmega cockpits are absolutely beautiful. Up there with the best on the market. This one however, is for a GR.3, not a GR.3A, meaning I'll have a small adjustment to make to the MFD soon. That is a beautiful casting. Can't see any after burner latches on the throttles tho'........... Edited February 1, 2016 by Fritag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xvtonker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Turn rate. Weren't much wrong with the roll rate - FWIW High wing loading & low thrust to weight = poor turn. That said - a clean Jag had an 8G limit which was pretty good and so the first turn or two - whilst still at high speed - following a neutral engagement was good hard work. Plus no fly by wire to prevent an overstress - so it was all manual skill. Made the exercise fun - if not necessarily effective High wing loading gives as smooth as possible a ride at high speed at low level. Hard to think - let alone operate - if your head's being bounced off the canopy As for performing well against air-defenders. It required lots of help from the fighter controllers to make up for the lack of a radar and manoeuvrability. I've heard that operating the MiG 29 radar involved a high workload and so Jags equipped with AIM 9L's and a lot of range/distance etc. info from the fighter controllers could manoeuvre towards a head-on merge so as to avoid a radar shot and then - whilst the MIG drivers were trying to transition from heads in to heads out - take forward aspect AIM 9L shots at the merge. Ain't no way a Jag could live with a MIG 29 - or any other air defender - in a manoeuvering fight. That is a beautiful casting. Can't see any after burner latches on the throttles tho'........... ehctiws RTP naem uoy t'noD​ Don't you mean Partial Throttle Reheat (PTR) switches ?............... XVTonker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Nah - looks to me like they've got PTR switches! On the sidewall just above and behind the throttles. I (facetiously) meant the two levers in front of the throttles you squeeze/pull in to enable the throttle to go into the normal reheat range (I am remembering correctly aren't I?) After all - we all know that the old girl ain't going far if she can't get the reheat in............ Edited February 1, 2016 by Fritag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xvtonker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Nah - looks to me like they've got PTR switches! On the sidewall just above and behind the throttles. I (facetiously) meant the two levers in front of the throttles you squeeze/pull in to enable the throttle to go into the normal reheat range (I am remembering correctly aren't I?) After all - we all know that the old girl ain't going far if she can't get the reheat in............ Ah yes, I remember them well!! Even though I was a leckie, I was cleared to carry out engine runs on the Jag. The sooties always made sure that the hands went nowhere near the throttle reheat locks during the runs, usually by verbal threats of where certain items of tooling could end up if I did............... ​ XVTonker Edited February 1, 2016 by xvtonker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks for the replies chaps. It was difficult to imagine a Jag mixing it all that successfully with a MiG-29 but those tactics make so much more sense. An old boss of mine was an ex-F.3 driver and he said that even they tended to blow straight through a fight taking missile shots during the fast pass rather than getting sucked in to a turning engagement. I'm sure the Typhoon boys now operate very differently but interesting to hear exactly how everyone played to the strengths of their particular airframes, as indeed you would! The more I get in to this Jag build the more I'm rekindling a minor love affair with the aircraft! Not sure where that comes from but this is the nice thing about modelling I think - build and learn. Thanks again for adding to the thread guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Reminds me of a locallish ex F3 back seat friend - he would talk about Dutch F-16s over the North Sea getting engaged using the Tornados medium range missile advantage and then turn and run like big girls back home before the F-16s got too close and had them for breakfast. He told other stories too, but I dont think he would care for me to repeat them. Im enjoying all this Jag lovin too. Always liked the things, but finding out more and seeing more photos, videos and info especially of the Oman Jags and their scant payloads is great stuff. Just need to build one now... dont we...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Uhh, yes indeed we do...! Had a busy few days for various reasons but will try to post an update soon. I'm still truckin'! Can't really blame the F.3 guys. Speed and acceleration was their advantage but the jet was never really meant to tustle with dedicated fighters. A kill's a kill at the end of the day. How you achieve it is another matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 It was always the tactics with the air defence Phantoms in Germany to fly with some F16's. The tooms would fire off the Skyflash at long range, then use the radar to direct the F16's at anything close in. We did an ACMI detachment to Deci with some Belgian F16's. They wiped the floor with the Phantoms. I was watching one fight in the control room, the toom was on a F16's tail & tried following it in a tight turn! Failed! The F16 turned inside and got a guns kill, the basic graphics of the ACMI screen showed the view from the F16. A plan view of a Phantom with the gun sight plumb in the middle. "Game over". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 I think it's been about a week since my last post in this thread so probably time to add a little bit. Kit instrument coaming has been removed and I've attached a collar around the resin part. It's intentionally far too big at the moment to allow me to blend it in to the kit in the appropriate manner later. As shown before, there are quite a few bits that have to fit inside the front of the GR.3A; some of the resin parts designed for this kit and some not, plus the scratch-built features. So the plan is to build racking in there which will house each part snugly without allowing them to move. Ideally, the end state will hold together without glue - which is not to say I won't glue it but that I'll be 100% sure nothing will budge when I fix it and, more importantly, stop me permanently fixing something a millimetre or so out of position which later impedes another part. So I've started all that... I've made a slight boo-boo there as I've not allowed space for the extended refuelling probe housing that I was thinking of building in so I'll mull that over and either scrap the idea or make some adjustments at some point. Secondly, I've removed the thick plastic housing for the cannon muzzles and inserted plasticard in to that gap. It took two plugs of varying thickness so as not to interfere with the resin wheel well. This will all be hidden away but will provide rigidity and also support to the cannons, and doesn't really change the price of fish outside... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 The boundary layer splitter plates visible in that last photo are also wrong for the Jaguar, being too stubby and too rounded. So, I got on with marking where they should be and building replacements for both kits. Only point to note here is that I took these photos before I realised I'd made them too long and they have since been shortened to meet the newly engraved panel line that descends from the one visible just behind the cockpit. They just touch that rather than going as far forward as the intake lip. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Hollowed out the cannon muzzles which are a bit clunky. I guess in an ideal world I would replace them but I'll just fettle them a bit more to try and improve the appearance. Still more to do in this area. Started building some of the supporting faces for the nose avionics bay on to the front of the nose undercarriage bay. This part won't be visible, it'll just provide rigidity as I'll use a much thinner piece for the internal wall. The holes are cut through it as, when I open up areas of the bay wall, I don't want the big chunky piece of plasticard visible behind. Edited February 6, 2016 by AjD 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Just stumbled across a lovely build of the KH Jag here - such a nice job and worth a look. There's something very odd with the nose profile though and the canopy looks very squat on that kit. Does anyone have any experience of the Flightpath replacement fuel tanks? I'm just wondering if they're correcting some outrageous fault with the shape of the Airfix and/or KH ones that I've not managed to spot yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The KH looks a bit odd next to the Airfix here, I think theres something different at the pointy end too, will get pictures when theyre both in primer and things are more equal to be sure to be sure. Tanks wise - The KH comes with just one and its rather wrong. The Airfix tanks are pretty close to the Flightpath offerings I believe, just a slight difference in length really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjD Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Thanks mate. That's useful to know. The diorama I have planned calls for about 3 sets of tanks so I've been wondering about the FP set. Trouble is, I don't need any/much of the other stuff in it. It would make an interesting comparison to see the shape of both kits side by side. Sounds like the builds are going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Maybe worth an email to Parkins asking if you could purchase the tanks separately? https://www.djparkins.com/help.php?section=contactus&mode=update Worth including a photo or two of your work I reckon - nice advertising for them when alls finished and pretty. Edit: Does it have to be tanks for the diorama? I will/do have various underwing gubbins (but not nice tanks) spare from both the Airfix and KH that you could add to your spares to busy things up? Nope, nowt happened here on the Jags, other stuff happened. Will be back on track soonish. Edited February 7, 2016 by RMP2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMCS Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Fantastic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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