Numpty decaling help please

[BikingLampy]

I'm a returnee to the world of modelling - a good 20 years since I put glue to plastic. Restarting the traditional way with a 1/72 Airfix Spitfire, and this site has been a goldmine of useful technicque info.

I'm at the decaling stage now and have been having some issues.

I've painted in Humbrol enamels (hairistikteknik - not with great results, sadly. Airbrush now on the shopping list), then done a coat of "Pledge/formally known as Klear". So far so good.

Having read up on decal solutions, I lashed out on a bottle of Microsol - wanting all the big decals to pull down nice and tight over the canyon-like panel lines (there were several posts that suggested 'Sol was far more useful than 'Set). But despite liberal application of 'Sol and/or a wet layer of Klear underneath the decal they're drying absolutley flat. Not the slightest hint of conforming to the surface. Even slicing along the panel line with a scalpel then 'Sol-ing has made no difference. I'm also getting a fair amount of silvering on the clear sections of decal - most noticeable on the large combined roundels/codes on the fuselage.

Ideas/suggestions?

I think I need to try a proper gloss varnish coat - the Klear may protect the previous coat nicely, but it's no supersmooth gloss finish.

Obviously try the 'Set/'Sol combo as per the instructions.

Others...?

Am I simply expecting too much? Given the stunning work done by you lot, I don't think so!

Thanks all!

[heloman1]

OK, no need to panic. Micro-Sol is good but with it you need to use Micro-Set. There is a little more to decal application than just sliding them into place. One thing is once your put Microsol onto the painted surface you need to roll out the excess water/Micro-Sol. I use a dampened cotton bud. Once that's done apply the Miscro-Set. This will wrinkle the decal and make it conform to the panel lines etc. Do not touch the decal during the drying process.

There is another methos which I use and this involves Future in allit's guises. Drop the decal onto a pice of wet kitchen towel and watch for the backing paper to wet up. Apply a small amont of Klear to the area where the decal is to be applied and then slide the wet decal onto the Klear. Then with a damp cotton bud roll out he excess Klear and wipe around the decal.This should seat the decals down nice and snug and you shouldn't have any silvering.

Hope the above is of help.

Colin

[BikingLampy]

To be honest that's confused me a little more.

According to the bottle, I should use 'Set first, apply the decal, then over brush with 'Sol. You're suggesting the other way round?

Can you define "roll out the excess water/Micro-Sol" . This is AFTER applying the decal, right?

"Drop the decal onto a pice of wet kitchen towel and watch for the backing paper to wet up" Currently I hold the decal in a pot of warm water for 10-15 secs, until it will slide easily on the backing. Is the bit with the paper towel instead of (to what advantage) or as well as (likewise) the pot of water?

Thanks!

[Antony Robertson]

I generally do as follows:

Apply Klear to the area the decal is going on and allow it to dry.

I then apply Micro Set to the area, and while still wet, apply the decal ( soaked in a bowl of warm water until free to move on the backing paper).

Once happy with the decal postion, I remove any excess fluid from underneath with a damp cotton bud or damp kitchen roll, taking care not to move the decal.

After a couple of minutes i then apply Micro Sol over the top of the decal ( again, without the decal moving), and allow it to dry, which can take a good few hours.

Sometimes the decal may take a couple of coats of Micro Sol to get it to snuggle into all the little lines.

Then a protective coat of Klear is applied over the top of the area to help remove any silvering.

Hope that helps

Antony

[Dave Swindell]

Numpty decalling tip No 1 - RTFI! (read the flippin' instructions)

No amount of decalling techniques to get perfectly applied decals will help if you go and put the decals in the wrong place in the first place.

That's a nice looking Spitfire, but the decal you've put on under the wing should go on the top surface!

Colin's tips above are all good, but primarily you want a good glossy surface to put the decals on.

Use gloss paints or gloss varnis over matt to get a good gloss coat before putting the decals on. Without this you'll always get silvering and poor decal adhesion.

Some decals respond well to heat - hot water on a lint free cloth, or with care, a hairdrier on low (avoid the higher Salvador Dali settings)

Oh, and welcome to the madhouse

[gengriz]

I suspect we all have our favourite methods; you will simply need to experiment and find one (or more) that work for you.

However, I'm largely with Colin here - although I tend to dip the decal in a bowl of tepid/warm water (like you do), then place it on my work board to soften. Once it can be moved on the backing paper, I lift it up, drain as much water off the paper as I can, then I apply a wet layer of Klear to the surface of the model, and slide the decal off the paper (often using a blunt scalpel to move it off the paper, especially if it is small) and into place. I then use the blunt scalpel to (carefully) move it if needed, then for larger decals, apply the edge of piece of kitchen towel to the edge of the decal to wick away any excess moisture. I then brush more Klear over and around the decal and its edges, using the brush to work out any unintended bubbles. General, I then leave it overnight to allow the Klear to work its magic.

I suspect you are letting the decals get too wet before application - any adhesive layer is probably being washed off, and you may be doing the same to your softening solution.

I stopped using setting/softeners many years back when I realised they were leaving brown stains on the models (that only appeared after several years).

FredT

[BikingLampy]

Thanks all. That's quite useful...

That's a nice looking Spitfire, but the decal you've put on under the wing should go on the top surface!

...not according to the instructions. 1 blue & red roundel on the upper left wing, one on the under right wing. Nothing on upper right or under left.

As per here:-

[Dave Swindell]

Well, I take that back and apologise.

You have indeed followed the instructions.

Never seen that before on a Spitfire, bit of a Munich Crisis oddity.

[georgeusa]

The last Airfix kit I put decals on was the 1/24 Typhoon. If I remember, it took a couple of coats of Micro Sol to get the decals to conform. I follow this procedure:

1. Use room temperature water to soak the decals.

2. Once they are easily removable from the backing paper, slide them into place.

3. Blot out the excess water. I generally use tissue, some people use Q-tips/cotton buds.

4. Layer on a coat of Micro Sol and then let it set over night. Initially, the decal will wrinkle up, but this will go away as it dries.

5. If the decal is not conforming to the surface, repeat 4.

6. If Micro Sol does not work, then I will bump it up a bit and use Solvaset which I think is a stronger solution.

I think time is the key though for Micro Sol to work. It takes more than 30 minutes or an hour before results happen. Overnight works best.

[Black Knight]

Sometimes, thats, sometimes very hot water applied to the decal via a cloth, held on it for few moments will soften the decal and help it to conform.

[heloman1]

To be honest that's confused me a little more.

According to the bottle, I should use 'Set first, apply the decal, then over brush with 'Sol. You're suggesting the other way round?

Can you define "roll out the excess water/Micro-Sol" . This is AFTER applying the decal, right?

"Drop the decal onto a pice of wet kitchen towel and watch for the backing paper to wet up" Currently I hold the decal in a pot of warm water for 10-15 secs, until it will slide easily on the backing. Is the bit with the paper towel instead of (to what advantage) or as well as (likewise) the pot of water?

Thanks!

OK. holding the decal in hot water is in my opinion, not the way to go you can loose tyoo much of the adhesive that way. Get a shallow dish/saucer and fold a piece of kitched towel into a square smaller then the diameter of the dish. Pore hot water ontothe towel and tip off the exess, you then lay the decal onto the towel to wet. It wil curl qnd then lay flat , then remover it from the towel , the image should be ready to slide into place.

Then using the Set firsts wet the area the decal is to go and apply the decal. With a damp cotton bud roll out the exess water/Set taking care not to damage the decal and/or move it. Onc3 that has been done apply Sol. Sol is the softening solution which makes the decal conform to scribe lines etc.

Hope this clarifies the procedure.

Colin

[Steve Noble]

Putting the decal onto a wet layer of Klear is, in my opinion, defeating the object. You're trying to get a decal to pull down tight onto a surface that's still wet/moving. How can you expect the decal to seat onto a moving surface..?? It's like trying to make it stick to the surface of the ocean.

The way I've always done it with airplanes and cars or bikes, doesn't matter they're all the same technique is as follows:

1:) Paint the model, either with gloss paints, or use a clear over matt/satin paints to make them glossy. A nice glossy surface is essential to prevent silvering.

2:) Apply a small area of Microset where you are going to place the decal.

3:) Dip the decal in warm water and place it onto a piece of kitchen towel, leave it for 20 seconds till it loosens from the backing paper.

4:) Slide it off onto the model where you placed the Microset and position it correctly. Leave it for a few minutes, then carefully using a dampened cotton bud flatten it to remove any excess air or water. Leave to dry for a short time.

5:) Apply Microsol to the decal with a small brush and leave it overnight. If it's good fine, if not repeat the application of Microsol until you are happy with the result. Allow to dry for a minimum 48 hours.

6:) If required apply a finish coat of varnish gloss, satin or matt and allow to dry. Finished.

It's worth remembering that some decals respond better to Microsol than others. On some of the thicker decals you may need something with a bit more strength, Mr Mark Softer, Daco Strong come to mind

[paul178]

Well, I take that back and apologise.

You have indeed followed the instructions.

Never seen that before on a Spitfire, bit of a Munich Crisis oddity.

Dave I thought it was wrong as well. So we both lived and learned!

[invidia]

I have built 2 new airfix kits recently, the decals on both were thick and did not settle even with set/sol and klear. Had to apple sol a number of times just to get them to sink into the detail. It might not be the way your doing things just the kit.

Edited February 21, 2015 by invidia

[georgeusa]

I think what I forgot to emphasize iin my last post regarding the use of Micro Sol is time. I tend to do decal heavy builds (Tiger Meet and IdolM@ster kits). I like Micro Sol as it is very predictable, but not really a strong setting solution. Very rarely do I just put one layer on. I typically do 2 or 3 applications before I am happy with how well the decal has settled down into the kit detail. Just be patient as Airfix decals need more than one application to behave. On the Airfix Typhoon I am doing, most decals received 3 applications before I was happy with the results. Drying time between applications was usually overnight. Just be patient and persistent. If one application doesn't give you the results you want, do another. If there is no change by the third application, switch to a stronger setting solution such as Solvaset or Daco. Just remember with the stronger solutions you have to be careful not to melt the decal. Best tip for any setting solution is apply it, leave it alone overnight, and then see if you need to do anything else to it. I can't tell you how many decals over the years I have ruined by being to anxious and messing with them too soon after applying the setting solution. Good luck.