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PaulR

80s NATO Europe vs Warsaw Pact GB Chat

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I'd be up for a "Red Storm Rising" group build. I think it would be cool if you had to do at least two kits, one for each side, I would go with a Soviet navy ship and a USN/RN ship in opposition.

Richard

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I have plans to build a couple of Italian air force Tornados that fit the time frame perfectly.

So count me in.

I have also RF-4C and F-4G in the stash that are tempting, but I need to check the time frame for both.

Cheers

Paolo

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I have plans to build a couple of Italian air force Tornados that fit the time frame perfectly.

So count me in.

I have also RF-4C and F-4G in the stash that are tempting, but I need to check the time frame for both.

Cheers

Paolo

Sounds great Paulo. Those early Italian tornadoes had some fantastic schemes!

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Hallo everyone,

As this is this GB proposal seems to be going to the vote, I just thought I'd pull together the scope of the build for reference...

1) time frame - Jan1st 1980 to December 31st 1989

2) geographical scope - anything based in or whose theatre of operation was Europe west of the Urals. I would include continental US units deployed to Europe on exercise ( e.g. ReForGer deployments) or ANG units on deployments such as the F-4Ds which covered the Ramstein QRA during the transition to the F-16C. The only proviso here is that it would need to be a specific airframe/unit tied to specific date and location.

3) Aeroplanes, tanks, ships all welcome under the above scope

4) No WHIFs, tempting tho' it would be to have a lightning F6 with Backfire kill marks!

5) NATO (and yes, France would be included even if they weren't in the military structure at the time) or Warsaw Pact- both good!

Would welcome any comments or thoughts on the above, esp. by Mish to make sure all is workable.

Cheers Paul

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Could we have a slight modification to the "no Whifs", allowing us to depict airframes as having seen combat a la Red Storm Rising? So we could add kill marks to an existing scheme, or weather more heavily, but no, say, RAF F-15 Eagles, or USAF F-16s in wraparound or whatever.

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How can I resist! My favourite decade! What other decade had the women wearing their underwear on the outside of their training outfits while doing Jane Fonda Aerobics! :thumbsup:

I'm with you on this - can't say which aircraft yet - perhaps a German Marine F-104G...hmmm... :hmmm:

My backtrouble should be over when this kicks off - I hope! :unsure:

Cheers

Hans J

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I think the scope is spot on and although I like the idea of allowing Red Storm Rising planes and the like I feelit might be difficult if not impossible to depect actual aircraft. However please keep discussing.

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I think the scope is spot on and although I like the idea of allowing Red Storm Rising planes and the like I feelit might be difficult if not impossible to depect actual aircraft. However please keep discussing.

I was thinking something like just being able to add, say, battle damage, or kill markings to an existing, era- and location- appropriate decal scheme.

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Could we have a slight modification to the "no Whifs", allowing us to depict airframes as having seen combat a la Red Storm Rising? So we could add kill marks to an existing scheme, or weather more heavily, but no, say, RAF F-15 Eagles, or USAF F-16s in wraparound or whatever.

Hallo Procopius!

Thanks for the idea, but in this instance would rather keep things historically accurate; I think it would get v.complicated knowing where to draw the line. Essentially, am aiming for airframes/vehicles that would have been seen by spotters or airshow visitors ( or spies if Warsaw Pact side!) - especially the airshows at RAF Mildenhall, a childhood/teen Mecca for cool airframes and markings. On a different note entirely; how is your kit down select going for the BoB GB? Am down to seven possibles personally! Best regards Paul!

Edited by PaulR

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Please add me to the list as well, especially for a Red Storm Rising theme, I've read that book many times!

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Thanks for the idea, but in this instance would rather keep things historically accurate; I think it would get v.complicated knowing where to draw the line. Essentially, am aiming for airframes/vehicles that would have been seen by spotters or airshow visitors ( or spies if Warsaw Pact side!) - especially the airshows at RAF Mildenhall, a childhood/teen Mecca for cool airframes and markings.

Awww, well that's hardly a Red Storm Rising, then! Still, I guess I have a fair number of 1980s RAF aircraft.

On a different note entirely; how is your kit down select going for the BoB GB? Am down to seven possibles personally! Best regards Paul!

I dunno. Some Hasegawa Hurricane Is, or a crosskit thereof with an Airfix Hurricane fabric-winger? A jillion Spitfires? A Do17? A Defiant? This is practically a religious event for me!

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Awww, well that's hardly a Red Storm Rising, then! Still, I guess I have a fair number of 1980s RAF aircraft.

I dunno. Some Hasegawa Hurricane Is, or a crosskit thereof with an Airfix Hurricane fabric-winger? A jillion Spitfires? A Do17? A Defiant? This is practically a religious event for me!

Procopius, am way ahead of you in that regard. Shrine to BoB already built in form of top shelf of modelling display cabinet; Holy Days designated by way of August 18th ( aka the 'Hardest Day' ) and September 15th; Holy Books - too many to mention, but the prophet Alfred Price will be numbered greatly among them; and finally, I was even born on the 10th of July, so am obviously Second Coming... or something...!

Best regards, Paul

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I like the sound of this, thinking of the St. Mawgan airdays from the 1980s that I attended. Before everything went totally grey and before it was just F-16s and Tornados.

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I like the sound of this, thinking of the St. Mawgan airdays from the 1980s that I attended. Before everything went totally grey and before it was just F-16s and Tornados.

Sounds ideal. Any particular type or squadron you have in mind?

Best regards, Paul

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Hallo Rich, it would be great to have you on board! However, am not sure there were any F-4Ds left in Europe by the 80s, which would be the scope of the build. There were ANG F-4Ds (I'll check which squadron) which were temporarily deployed to Ramstein for QRA when the wing there converted to the F-16C in '86 or '87, so that could be an option! Best regards, Paul!

Hallo Rich,

Just did a bit of research, and it was the Minnesota ANG that deployed their F-4Ds for a few months to Ramstein under the deployment name Creek Klaxon. Caracal models do the relevant markings in 1/48 just in case it is of any interest!

Best regards, Paul

Edited by PaulR

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Rich and Paul,

I believe that the 401st TFW flew F-4D's into the early '80s out of Torrejon AB in Spain. Michael Skinner's USAFE published in 1983, still lists F-4D's as equipping that unit.

Wikipedia claims that the 401st upgraded to F-4E's in 1970, but replaced them with F-4C's in 1973, and then to F-4D's in 1978. The F-16's apparently arrived in 1983.

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Rich and Paul,

I believe that the 401st TFW flew F-4D's into the early '80s out of Torrejon AB in Spain. Michael Skinner's USAFE published in 1983, still lists F-4D's as equipping that unit.

Wikipedia claims that the 401st upgraded to F-4E's in 1970, but replaced them with F-4C's in 1973, and then to F-4D's in 1978. The F-16's apparently arrived in 1983.

Well, you live and learn! Thanks for the heads-up on this!

Paul

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Paul

1) time frame - Jan1st 1980 to December 31st 1989

Just a suggestion, and not sure if it would make much difference to the GB candidates, but why not take the end date to the day the Berlin Wall came down (1991?)

Either way, having served during the 1980s Cold War - I'm in :thumbsup2:

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Sounds ideal. Any particular type or squadron you have in mind?

Best regards, Paul

Blimey! Where does one start?

Something other than grey, but definitely from the 1970s-1980s period I think.

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Count me in. I have lot of MiG's and SU's that would fit in.

Propably something from DDR or Soviets based in DDR.

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Rich and Paul,

I believe that the 401st TFW flew F-4D's into the early '80s out of Torrejon AB in Spain. Michael Skinner's USAFE published in 1983, still lists F-4D's as equipping that unit.

Wikipedia claims that the 401st upgraded to F-4E's in 1970, but replaced them with F-4C's in 1973, and then to F-4D's in 1978. The F-16's apparently arrived in 1983.

McDonnell F-4 Phantom: Spirit in the Skies Jon Lake (Aerospace 1992) confirms this. F-4E 1970-73, F-4C 1973-1979, F-4D 1978-1983, F-16 from February 1983.

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I would be very interested in this one but it would all depend on when it is to be held. There are a stack of jets that I would like to build from that era...Starfighter, Mig-21, early F-16...the list goes on.

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I could well be tempted here. Probably a Jag, Tornado or Hunter in green/grey.

Here are some shots from Greenham Common 1983 for inspiration.

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Trevor

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