Pocher Mercedes 540K True Roadster Build

[Brandy]

Nice work! There's no such thing as "cheating" btw, just different ways of getting the same result!

Ian

[larchiefeng]

Well I made some more progress of the Cabriolet engine today so, I will continue the post I started earlier on the engine and I will finish with a few shots of the Roadster just to remind everybody which car started this post.

OK, we left off with the engine being glued and clamped so we will stay on the left side of the engine with the linkage for the supercharger being attached and the timing cover all the way on.

I also attached the supercharger and the linkage on the right side of the engine which you can make out in this picture

Mocking up the wire loom before attaching the head and distributor

Here is the right side of the engine with the supercharger attached and the linkage

Now we're fitting the head in preparation of attaching the loom and wires

Here are a couple of right side shots with the head and manifold in position

OK, now here are a few more pictures of the Roadster

This is pretty much where the roadster is at the moment as I continue to work on the Cabriolet engine and frame while I'm waiting for the weather to warm up so I can work on painting the roadster body. I am sanding down the cowl and inner hood panels so they will fit without the gaps at the cowl and grille shell. I will post some of those pictures so you can see how I'm thinning down some of the panels in hope of getting an acceptable fit.

[Mpfiend]

Very nice work indeed coupled with great photos really makes this a pleasure to follow. Thank you for taking the time to include so much detail in your posts.

Best Regards

Keith.

[Codger]

Beautiful engine and chassis detail Wayne. Classic German over-engineering on display!

[larchiefeng]

Well, I managed to get the engine wiring finished on the Cabriolet engine and I also discovered a missing piece when trying to do the supercharger linkage. When I built the 540K engine I bought the PE parts set from MMC to add the linkage but, I actually took it off the the 500K Cab engine thinking everything was accounted for with the PE set. As I was putting the 500 engine together I discovered that the PE set from MMC did not have the the rear lever for the distributor advance lever. Part 74031 is missing and does not come with the K91 kit. Luckily I have the K74 kit instructions and I just made a copy of the part illustration and taped it to some 0.20 sheet styrene and made one. I actually made it a bit thicker because I also had to cut some threaded 2mm rod for the rear engine piece that each side of the linkage arms mount to. So, in addition to the PE set you also need a piece of 2mm threaded rod, fabricate the 74031 lever and fabricate both rods that run on each side of the engine to duplicate the supercharger linkage. The rod on the supercharger side is also 2 mm brass rod that needs to be threaded on each end. The rod on the distributor side is slightly smaller in diameter and does not need any threading done. Anyway, here are a few pictures of the lever in question.

This is the original one I made and then I decided that it needed to be thicker to take up a little gap between the nuts holding it and the threaded rod on

You can see it's a little thicker where I'm working it into shape a little better

First test fit

Everything fit like I wanted it so I took it off and painted it before final assembly

Here is the engine getting the distributor and the rest of the wiring connected and you can see the painted lever connected at the back of the engine

I think maybe the back two plug wires are just a hair too long and I might take them back off and shorten them a bit

Yes, Virginia there really are two Mercedes being built. Here are the two engines next to one another with one in the frame and the other just about done. It won't be too long and they will both be sitting their built frames.

I also took a break from these guys and did a bit of paint work on my 917 Porsche and some clean up and paint work on the 32 Ford rear end parts but they are subjects for another time. Every so often I need a break so, I go back to some previously started projects and tinker with them for a bit.

Wayne

[larchiefeng]

Here is a reminder of what the Cabriolet engine looked like when I started it.

Then

Now

[Mpfiend]

The before and after photos show just how much work you have already put into this.

Both cars are coming along very nicely indeed, great attention to detail.

Best Regards

Keith

[larchiefeng]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all your comments. I haven't done much over he last couple of days other than get myself organized. I did however set the Cab engine in it's frame next to the Roadster frame and took a shot of them together. I think I'm going to briefly switch gears some and work a bit on the Roadster body just because I'm getting a bit burned out working on engines. So, for a change of pace I'm going to do some sanding and fitting of the hood panels and the door panels. To that end I did attach the radiator and grille shell on the Roadster temporarily so I can check the fit.

First here are a couple of shots of the two frames with engines side by side; notice the grille is on albeit temporary.

Here is the body on with the hood panel set on top to check fit

Looks pretty good on here

OK, now we are checking the head on view where the hood panels never seem to fit correctly on the Mercedes at the grille. Looks pretty good on the driver's side but it's still a little off on the passenger side

Now you can see a little more work needs to be done on each side of the rear of the hood where the panels meet the cowl. This is a combination of sanding down the cowl section on the body and thinning down the underside of the hood panel where it meets the cowl. You have to just keep sanding and shaping both pieces to get a good fit here. The hood panels are pretty thick so they can take quite a bit of sanding and thinning down. The cowl mostly needs to be sanded down and reshaped in the curve down so when the side pieces of the hood are attached they will draw in towards the engine area and not stick out.

Another shot shows everything is lining up for the most part; it's just some fine tuning left now but, we're on the right track

So, that's it for today

[Codger]

Very fine work Wayne.

But a friendly word of advice; every single panel on my Rolls needs trimming, adjusting or adding-to in order to get symmetry and neat fit. Even had to move the whole body aft to center the rear wheels in the openings. Changes the interior and a load of other stuff. I'm still struggling with this.

I hope Pocher did better mold work on these Benzes than the early Sedanca.

Take nothing for granted, work slowly and just when you think they look good, take them off, reassemble and check again. Don't forget to allow for paint thickness!

I know that sounds like a grind that wears you down, and it is. But it's the only way to not ruin all your great chassis work with a wonky body alignment. Pochers are like that.

It will pay off at the end when the model looks perfect. It's the first thing that hits you. Viewers will see it looks perfect but not realize why. Far more important than the tiny bolts or rust on the tailpipe.

Sermon over...

[larchiefeng]

Thanks Codget,

I expect to be doing a lot of sanding and taking things off and on quite a bit. One of the side hood panels is warped and will need to be straightened out; I'm up for suggestions on the best way to do that from anyone's experience. The doors are off a bit as well. What I really need to do first is finish assembling the grille, radiator, hoses and support rods to what I hope will be the final state. And then, I can really work on the hood panels in earnest. Right now I'm just removing material to get it down to something that looks close. I also plan on taking the doors and hood panels down a bit further than a perfect fit so I can account for the paint build up. As far as this Mercedes goes, from all accounts it has the best fit of all the Mercs because it's the last production and it supposedly has fewer fit problems. Paul tells me they are the best fitting of all the Pocher's in the Classic series but, it's still a Pocher so it goes without saying it will need work. I appreciate the (sermon) err comments. These things are definitely a marathon and not a sprint to build and like an idiot I'm doing two at once. I actually am contemplating selling the Cabriolet when the rolling chassis is done. I got hit today with a list of needed repairs to my house from the homeowners insurance so, in addition to slowing me down on the builds it will also drain the wallet. So, it looks like I'm going to have to sell a few kits to fix the house. Nothing as dramatic as what you and your family are going through but, not fun in any event. Let me close with best wishes for you and your wife, I hope things are improving

Wayne

[roymattblack]

When I built my Phantom Torpedo, AND the Alfa Spider, in both cases almost no body panel fitted.

The doors needed loads of trimming - the Alfa doors needed almost complete re-shaping - the bonnet/hood panels didn't fit and the scuttle alignment didn't exist.

As Mr C says - lots of fiddling, but it's worth it.

With the Rolls, the upper bonnet panels would fit neatly at the scuttle, but be miles out at the rad end.

Getting the rad end straight meant the panels didn't fit at the scuttle...

In the end it was a big tub of VERY hot water, immerse the panels one at a time and then twist them past the required shape and hold them in that position under cold running water.

When let go, some of the 'twist' would remain and after several goes, the panels fitted well.

It's VERY daunting doing it for fear of breaking the panel but it works.

A word of advice though - don't use BOILING water, or immerse the parts for too long.

I did this with my Alfa Radiator shroud that was warped.

Yes, I straightened the warp but found the part had SHRUNK by over 5mm !!!

It was useless and I had to get a replacement from our pal Peter at Pocherparts.

Pocher plastic SHRINKS if you get it too hot.

All the best, Roy.

[Codger]

One of the side hood panels is warped and will need to be straightened out; I'm up for suggestions on the best way to do that from anyone's experience.

Roy's words are golden. Especially the shrinking caution. Also, fix one end; re-fix the other...nerve-wracking.

In my case the floorboard (very thick) had the worst warp followed by the flimsy verticals on the door panels - plus those are really brittle. I've still got to tackle the hood panels (groan).

Instead of Roy's hot baths, I used my trusty Milwaukee heat gun. I set it on its stand so it points vertically, then selected the low setting (500 deg F.). Holding the part with two fingers per side, I lowered it over the gun until my fingers got just hot enough, passing the part side to side in the heat while applying opposite twist pressure. Your frying fingers prevent you from harming the plastic.

Not for the faint of heart.

I got the floor pan very acceptable this way but fear made me stop after a while on the door pillars; dunno how I'll address that down the road.

Roy's 'hot tub' is fraught with similar sadomasochism. You just have no accurate way to gauge your progress so take your best guesses and keep adjusting; just don't melt or work harden the piece.

Horrified?

Wayne, if building Pochers was easy, they'd teach it in kindergarten...

Edited March 17, 2015 by Codger

[larchiefeng]

Thanks guys,

It's funny that you both have a different way using heat and both are what I am considering however, you haven't made it any easier because you each suggest one or the other. My thought is the heat gun would probably be the quicker of the two but, much easier to make a mistake. The hot water is more likely a slower process and maybe somewhat frustrating. It's kind of like either pulling s bandaid off slowly or just ripping it off quickly. The warp I'm dealing with is somewhere midway in the panel and is a slight twist so I've got a little time to give it some thought. I also have some spare "Pocher plastic" that I think I'll experiment with using both methods to get a feel for how hot and how much pressure is required to bend things and get them to retain a new shape. I appreciate both of your responses from experience. And as Roy and other builders I've talked to point out the Alfa Spider is probably the worst for hood and door fit of all the Pocher's.

Thanks Wayne

[Ian Shumsky]

I'm not into model cars, but those are great and inspiring builds! Will be keeping an eye on this thread

[Haddewade]

Larchiefeng, i like ure build so far but one thing has to be sad, ure engine is not a correct 540K, the airvent should be under 90 degrees and the inlet manyfould and exhaust should be scwitched places.

P3021906.jpg by Mark Nijenhuis, on Flickr

Here u have a corect picture. (fore reference purpose only)

http://www.autobahnkurier540k.com/images/540kA/8.JPG

[larchiefeng]

Thank you Mark, you are correct about the differences on the engine and the need to reverse the positions of the intake and exhaust manifolds along with the air cleaner change. Also, in order to really make all the corrections to a 540K you would also have to move the fuel pump to the right side of the engine just above the starter. Thank you for pointing that out to other builders that want to model a more correct representation of the 540K engine. Having said all that, I became aware of the differences in the engine and I made the decision not to spend the extra time and money to retrofit the engine. My intention was to just finish it and try and do a decent job and I certainly never anticipated posting any of the build on any forums. I am sure that my color choices for the engine and some components aren't correct either. David Cox and Marvin Meit at Model Motor Cars published a book that comes with a CD/DVD entitled "Building the Pocher Mercedes Advanced Techniques" which I have and have read that covers the conversion of the 500K engine over to the 540K engine and it points out the Pocher in their infinite wisdom only used one engine in all of their Mercedes kits. Since, I did not consider myself ready for the "advanced techniques" at the time I decided to just build it as most everyone else built it but, looking back on it I wish I would have made the change as the air cleaner fits better under the hood that the cigar shaped one. Again, thanks for the correction for any that are contemplating building the Mercedes with the 540K engine and I must say your work in the pictures looks like you are most definitely in the advanced technique category.

Wayne

[Haddewade]

Wayne, it's you'res and only you're build, choices and so on, there is acctually just one thing that counts, have FUN buidling it!

I wish i had that book........... pictures on the www are as rare as the car it self.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Haddewade

[foxfriend]

Had the exact same problem with the hood panels on my Rolls. I did exactly the same as Roy, very hot water, a generous helping of perseverance and it came out good in the end.

[Mpfiend]

Hi Wayne,

Do you have any more of this for us?

I'm nearly ready to start mine now, as I have nearly completed my current project (perhaps a couple of weeks away yet).

Best Regards

Keith.

[larchiefeng]

Sorry, not at the moment. I've been dealing with trying to get bids for my house repairs so everything can get done before the end of May. Long story but, it has to get done for my homeowners insurance. In the mean time I've been working on sanding down a 3D printed rear end I purchased from TDR and it has turned into a nightmare of the first order. This was supposed to be a quick and easy assembly for my 1/8 scale 32 Ford project on a Pocher frame. I need the rear end assembled in order to scratch build the rest of the frame and engine mounts etc. Everything keys off of the front and rear end. To date I have spent roughly 35 hours sanding and trying to clean up the 50 or so parts that are 3D printed in sand cast material and they are extremely rough. With all the small detail, it has taken forever to get something that is passable for use on the frame. If anybody is interested I will post some pictures of the parts as they come. I've had a couple of emails back and forth with Tim at TDR and he says that if it wasn't done in sand cast the cost would be too high. I don't know about the rest of you but, my time is worth something and at 35 hours and counting I would have gladly paid double the price. Of course you have no idea how rough the print is until you get it and start trying to clean it up. Also, sand cast material consists of a mixture of superglue and plaster so, you can kind of get an idea of the texture. Anyway, as soon as I put this house project on track for getting done I can go back to the Mercedes' build. What I have posted so far on them has taken a few months to get to that point so Keith, you will have a way to go before you get to where I'm at now. In the mean time I'm sure everybody would like to see your build as it progresses. If you have any questions, post them and I will answer what I can and I'm also sure there are others here that can answer any questions you might have; Roy and Codger come to mind. Once you get past the body style most Pocher kits have a lot of the same problems and sequences of assembly. Let me know if I can help once you get started.

Wayne

[Mpfiend]

Thank you very much Wayne,

There is a very concentrated wealth of Pocher knowledge on this site which I will find invaluable Roy, codger and fox friend have all produced stunning models to date and all of their build logs will be invaluable to me.

I will post the progress of my build here once I get under way.

I hope you get your House maintenance project back on track soon so that we can enjoy some more of your build.

Best Regards

Keith.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mpfiend

[Codger]

Keith - Sharing our pool of Pocher experience comes easily for those named. We're all glad to share, help and learn.

Wayne - bummer about the house but life always intrudes on our fancies.

Also a Bummer about TDR (and Shapeways too) stuff; the caveat has always been that the smooth, shiny parts shown cost a limb and the affordable stuff hardly looks like the part it was made from. Unless you send an eon sanding and filling...

[larchiefeng]

Codger,

You are correct about showing the shiny stuff and getting something less than. Here are some examples of what is shown and what I thought I was getting and what I really received.

Below is what they showed; looks pretty good, huh?

This is what I received and this is after hours of working the parts that have been sprayed with a red high build primer

Here is a close up view of the brake pads and u-joints

Here are the rear x-member and differential housing

After a coat of primer and the first sanding and then after even more sanding and finally a coat of gloss aluminum

I'm still not happy with the results but, I'm worn out on this whole thing so, I'm going to add the brass hex bolts and hope that small bit of detail will distract the eye from how rough the case still is.

I realized that the front housing cover was not lined up straight but when I used so de-bonder on it to move it, the whole thing got very weak and broke in two places. I think the composition of the sand cast material doesn't like the de-bonder since it is comprised of plaster and super glue

At first I wasn't going to sand the springs but, then I realized I could just put them on a plastic tube and sand them this way. It was the only thing that actually went right for me on this.

As unhappy as I am with this whole assembly I think, hope, it will look OK when it is all finally assembled and hanging in the frame. With some of the touches of detail with the brass hex nuts I think it will distract from some of the roughness of the casting and with it under the car it won't be as noticeable. I've seen other large scale models that have used the TDR stuff and almost all of them have some kind of rough finish so, I don't feel too bad. Who am I kidding I'm pi...ed. At any rate, lesson learned with this stuff.

Wayne

[roymattblack]

I'm glad you've posted this for all to see.

My original Weber carbs were from the same company.

They were truly AWFUL and after a few emails they gave me a full refund.

I got new carbs made by a friend for a high cost, but they were worth it.

I was contemplating getting a 1/8 long nose D Type shell from TDR to save a lot of time, to build that variety of car but at around £550 just for a shell, I now think I'll give it a miss and make my own as before.

Great work by you though, as usual.......

[Codger]

Yeah that's a shame. All that expense then parts that look like they're made of corn flakes with no definition. In 35 hours, you could have completely scratch-built those bits and had a better result with the same effort. All from styrene sheet, rod and tube and some brass rod for the springs.

Thank you posting a great visual warning for big scale builders, sadly at your considerable expense and effort. I imagine their smaller scale parts in the same material are total junk for accuracy.

You are right; in place in the chassis with body much of that will be a non-factor. I've got beautiful clevises and links under my Roller that are visually gone because the eye takes in the whole and gets overwhelmed.

I'm a sicko that loves knowing they are there...

It is a shame at this stage of 3D printing; this technique could really have been a boon to big scale builders and expanded the entire field of these models.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Codger