Pocher Mercedes 540K True Roadster Build

[larchiefeng]

Thanks for your kind comments guys. Well, today has been a bit disappointing and challenging at the same time. First, I received the new leather and it wasn't a match, see the first picture. That sent me scrambling through all my leather pieces and scraps to try and locate enough pieces that I might be able to finish this interior in the cream colored leather. I knew up front that getting a match was going to be a bit of a crap shoot and as you can see it's too far off to even try and integrate it into the interior. The original leather is very creamy yellowish and the new color is more grey/tan.

I think I may be able to make what I have stretch and I have kind of a plan B in mind just in case. Today, I had already decided to start working on the dash panel and the first thing was to get it fitted to the under side of the body and test fit everything with the steering column and seat. Since I'm using the MMC dash panel I had to check the fit against the kit piece and the shape is different, the mounting holes don't line up and the steering column hole is too small for starters. These next pictures show the problems I noticed right up front. And, to get everything worked out, I had the body on and off the frame at least six times; thank goodness for the mounting studs which made this process very quick. Here are the first problems.

You can see the original oval sections where the kit dash screws in.

The kit dash over the original mounting holes

The MMC dash sitting in the same location and you see how much it's off

The other problem was that the MMC dash was tilted back and needed to mount more upright so, I had to add shims and re-drill the holes. It looks a little sloppy but it's all hidden but, you can see just how much off it is.

Dash back out and holes drilled. I also had to be mindful of all the previously drilled holes in the cowl area for the windshield posts and lower W/S channels of which there are seven other holes to mount all that, plus the two kit holes for the ashtray. There's a lot going on under there and after I get all this situated I have to fabricate an instrument cluster housing behind the dash to hold the dash lights.

Dash mounted under the cowl

Back on the frame for a test fit. On this test fit the chrome steering shaft cover was not fitting and the dash hole needed to be filed on an angle for the chrome piece to go through the dash and on the correct angle.

Final test fit with everything fitting as it should, dash, column wheel etc.

This makes about the third or fourth MMC accessory that I've added that did not fit without a lot of extra work and trial and error to make it work. When they're on, they make a huge difference but, be warned these parts are not a direct replacement for the kit parts. Almost without exception there is some fiddling about to get them to work. I know this thread has been somewhat slow moving through all the paint issues and lately the interior but, unfortunately that's just the kind of time and trouble some of these things take. The dash and a few of the upcoming things should go a little faster as, I've saved them for later in the build because I knew they were going to be fairly easy. Well, easy, in the grand scheme of things. I spent an inordinate amount of time on the paint but, I can say it is about as close to being perfect as I could get it and, with no clear coat. The seat, was trial and error for me and, is my first attempt at doing upholstery; I was very nervous about doing it and after a few stops and starts I finally got something I can live with, albeit with a cost. The cost was losing all that leather and, in hindsight, if I had to do it again I would practice with a piece that I had more of, in order to work on technique. The seat is still dirty and I figure as long as I'm pulling it in and out I might as well wait on the cleaning until all that is finished. I know my seat is not as good as others on here and I would probably give it a 7 out of 10. There will be a lot of other things going on, with this car when finished, and there will be plenty to occupy the mind and eye so, some of the deficiencies will fall into the background of the whole. At least that's the hope.

[Codger]

I feel your pain. It is important that you shared this here with several who are contemplating advanced work on a Pocher classic or are deeply involved already. It's a sobering prospect that may save some the pain and expense of diving in.

The fact that you salvage and reengineer these bits into a successful and outstanding model is also encouragement for those following builders. There's always a way given enough time, patience and resources. MMC has droves of stunning models on the site most using the MMC parts so it CAN be done. But yes, it's disappointing to spend large model sums only to have to rework bits to get them to fit.

Pochers are not for everyone but can be the best, most challenging model project you ever do.

In my own case, I too had some disappointing issues with MMC parts.The RR PE spring set is a work of art in stainless and the look and strength added is unparalleled. However, the front springs are a full 3mm too long; almost unable to fit the perch locations on the chassis. Advice was given to arch them to fit but that would raise the ride height to a ridiculous appearance. They are in place but the only drawback is the unusual appearance of the shackles pointed straight out forward. The real disappointment is the cost. Fully twice as much as many Tamiya 1/12 F-1 kits.

By contrast, the MMC bronze front axle is a work of art, strong as a bridge and fit is perfect in every way. Also pricey but very satisfying. Many other of their small details parts are exquisite, fit well and impart a professional and realistic appearance so their value or worth is determined by the modeler's standards and checkbook.

Thanks for sharing and showing these problems and solutions you've handled Wayne.

[Pouln]

Wayne, it can be quite disappointing if you put many hours into something and you still do not find it up to your own standards.

Doesn't matter if it is modelling, fixing the house or whatever, if you are somewhat of a perfectionist, and this build shows you are, it is not easy to accept this.

I feel for you.

Buying expensive components from a supplier, only to find that these do not fit well, or not at all, is a real bummer.

I saw the struggles of Codger with his springs and it is very weird that they do not solve that issue. Cant be that difficult.

Your troubles with some of their stuff makes me think that it is actually unacceptable given their prices.

In the end, like you said, there will be lots of great stuff to see on your model. Keep going and I'm sure you will be happy with the results.

[Homerlovesbeer]

God that seat looks fantastic!

[larchiefeng]

Thanks guys. Today I made a little progress on the dash. I got the leather glued on and made a few small holes in the mother of pearl for the switch knobs, lights and dash gauge lights. Only the leather on the main panel is somewhat glued and I still need to try and cut two more glove box pieces to see if I can get a better fit. The MOP isn't glued onto the center panel and none of the three pieces are permanently fixed to the main panel yet. A little warning about the real mother of pearl I'm using here; it is really brittle and is prone to chipping out. Fortunately, I'm only drilling tiny starter holes here and will only increase the hole size in increments until I get the size hole I need. This is especially critical on the holes for the small switch knobs and the two dash indicator lights. The holes behind the gauges aren't a problem because the gauge will cover any mistakes as the holes are only for light bulbs to illuminate the gauges. This is mainly just a mock up to get an idea of how it fits and looks. I need to make a more precision cut around the hole for the steering column but, it's progress nonetheless. Now, I need to work on the center instrument cluster and gauges. More later.

Edited February 13, 2016 by larchiefeng

[Codger]

Obviously great advice to the Benz guys contemplating MOP. It's really a 'Mother' to work with unless you take those precautions.

But the look is dead-on for the car.

Me, I'm a 'engine-turned' ally guy which I think would also fit the character of this car and look smashing.

[larchiefeng]

No pun intended right, Mr. C? Just another quick update here. I found that by using a small drill bit, around a number 61 or so to start drilling the mother of pearl I was to then drill a slightly larger hole just big enough to get a round needle file in and slowly twist and work the hole open large enough fit each switch, knob and light lens in their respective holes. I got all the switch knobs and light lenses painted and ready to be mounted tonight as well. Tomorrow, I will place the gauge faces and metal rings on the MOP and then finish mounting the instrument cluster into the dash. The nice thing about this MMC dash is it is four separate pieces rather than the one piece dash in the kit. The kit dash is not very well defined and makes trimming and adding the leather on a lot more difficult. The MMC dash, even though it has mounting problems, is much easier and cleaner to detail and add the leather and other parts to. I'll take a couple of pictures of the individual pieces of the dash next to the kit piece to show the differences when I post the completed dash tomorrow. I've been waiting on putting down the carpet and wiring up the transmission, for the lighting, until I see how the dash wiring route will go. Tomorrow, I will have a better idea of that too. Looking at the latest picture, I see that I'm going to have to add a piece to the back of the seat so it can sit slightly forward and still be a finished unit when viewing from the back looking forward to the dash. When I start putting all the finish pieces in I start seeing things that need improvement. More tomorrow.

[larchiefeng]

Just some pictures tonight of the two dashes and I am going to have to make a new center mother of pearl piece and do some other things. So, after all this work today I'm going to say that this reall mostly a mock up.

When I was trying to post this earlier, I lost all the explanations when my computer crashed so, I had to go back and just load the picture with a brief explanation. What I wanted to say is, here are the picture showing the differences in the kit dash and the MMC dash. Notice the reversal of the instrument cluster which was just another problem I encountered with the MMC part. I had to handle and drill and enlarge the holes so many times that I'm afraid that the MOP is cracking and close up looks a little ragged. Another thing is that even though I drilled out every hole provided in the MMC dash exactly as laid out, you will notice the indicator lights don't line up with the switches below. I was pretty sure that I had the gauges laid out perfectly, you can see how the one on the left is crowding the instrument bezel. That is going to have to be fixed by re-drilling the metal piece so they line up correctly. I will also make a template for all the gauges and switches before committing to the new MOP piece. I will also need to reinforce the MOP with either 0.020" or 0.010" plastic card which will keep the MOP from breaking and chipping. I also am going to print out the dash gauges on decal paper to eliminate the paper thickness of the photo paper MMC gauge upgrade. So, after the two or three hours of work to get this done, I now consider it all a learning experience and this is just a mock up. Another day, another dollar, as the saying goes.

Edited February 15, 2016 by larchiefeng

[Mpfiend]

Hi Wayne,

The work you are doing here is really top drawer, the seat and now the dash board work really look very nice indeed, I am taking lots of notes and following your process' very carefully, ready for when the time comes to install my own interior.

Keep up the sterling work.

Best Regards

Keith.

[Pouln]

This will be awesome. I can see what you mean with the misalignment of the indicator lights. Soon as you have that sorted on your next attempt it will be fantastic.

Love the MOP and if you reinforce it by gluing it to styrene sheet, it will be much easier to handle.

[Codger]

But these time-consuming trials / errors are yielding excellent results. The detail and symmetry will be superb. Yes, good idea about the backing sheets. Don't lose patience, you're on the verge of greatness.

[larchiefeng]

Thanks Keith and Paul, it's all a learning curve here and figuring out what works. On this build I've worked with so many new materials and figuring how to handle, glue, drill and manipulate them has been an experience. When I started this I never thought it would as difficult as its been. I'll be honest here, knowing how much work went into that dash and coming out with a less than satisfactory result is disappointing. What, is even more discouraging is knowing that I have to do it all over again. When all is said and done, I figure I will have built this car two or three times over. That's a lot of time that seems wasted but, I know it's not really, it just seems that way at the time. I don't know how much I'm going to get done on the car over the next 10 days or so. I have four doctor appointments a day or the on the phone with my attorney preparing for a deposition and two days of deposition between today and the 24th. So, I'll be pretty rung out until this is all done. I think I might just grab the Testarossa and start sanding the body down for a new paint job and color. Something mindless and to just keep busy and my mind off of all the BS.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Deep breaths Bro, deep breaths!

I feel your pain over the dash.....If it helps I can 'see' exactly how it should have looked and with some more fiddling & fettling the next one will look amazing.

[Pouln]

Disappointing indeed.

I secretly (re)started my Alfa project. Will start a WIP when I have anything presentable to show. Bought the kit (Coupe Elegant) at the end of the previous century (dirt cheap, such that I bought three, sold one quite soon to cover the purchase price of all three and the other one last year).

Don't have much time to build so it will be a long process. Since I bought the kit I took the engine apart for the third time and am rebuilding it, much better so I hope.

Bought a lathe with milling attachment and am scratching some engine parts with it to get the hang of it.

Wasn't the fact that you build everything at least twice supposed to be part of the Pocher fun?

Ahh, the Testarossa is still in the works? Good to hear that.

Following that build as I have a restauration-ready coupe and a spider in red and white. The latter will be rebuilt in the only factory version that was created for Agnelli (lots of pictures on the net as it was auctioned last week).

Pocher brought this version in a limited edition, however it seems that they did not get the interior right. It was rumoured to have a white or cream interior, however the auctioned car clearly shows dark blue leather on dash and seats.

Sorry for rambling on.

Hope your distractions will work out fine. Take care

[larchiefeng]

Poul,

That Testarossa was in a silver with a blue accent strip at the bottom and the interior follows the same color scheme of silver and blue. I'm probably going to wind up painting mine black, I just haven't decided on matte or gloss. Those wheels have to go in order to achieve the look I'm going for. I'm almost tempted to buy a mini lathe just so I can machine some new wheel outers that will fit the tires and then I can put the new centers in and get the custom wheel I want. I keep planning on taking the tires and wheels off of the F40 to see if they will fit on the TR. If they did then I would probably just get a set of those wheels instead.

Maybe later tonight I will just get the new MOP piece cut out and mounted to the plastic card and go from there. I was also thinking about a clear coat over it before I start any drilling just to, hopefully, reduce the chances of it splitting or chipping out from the actions of the drill bit turning and cutting. That's when the MOP chips, when the cutting edges of the bit cuts the edges. That's why starting with a tiny bit and slowly twisting a needle file seemed to work the best for enlarging the holes. Well, time to get on the road. At least its a nice day for a drive , I think I'll take the top off the Supra and get a little sun today.

[Codger]

A possible help Wayne. An old woodworker's tip; put a strip of masking (Tamiya's tack is good) on the MOP, mark for hole centers then drill as you normally do. Should fight chipping and splitting. Remove carefully.

[larchiefeng]

Yea, that's a good idea and I've already considered it, I'm just a bit worried that the adhesive would pull out any chips when I tried to remove it. Wood is more forgiving than the MOP, I usually tape where I'm making a cut with the table saw to avoid chip out from the blade on plywood or melamine. That's why I'm considering a clear coat to hold it together and I can see what's happening while I'm drilling or filing. With the tape I'd be doing it blind

[Codger]

Yea, that's a good idea and I've already considered it, I'm just a bit worried that the adhesive would pull out any chips when I tried to remove it. Wood is more forgiving than the MOP, I usually tape where I'm making a cut with the table saw to avoid chip out from the blade on plywood or melamine. That's why I'm considering a clear coat to hold it together and I can see what's happening while I'm drilling or filing. With the tape I'd be doing it blind

If you've got a scrap piece test it with Tammy tape and another with clear. I think Tammy tape's adhesive won't pull up. If you use it mark the tape first with all your centers and you won't be blind.

[larchiefeng]

I'll give it a shot. The blind part is not being able to see what is happening to the MOP when I'm doing the actual cutting with the drill bit. If I see it starting to chip I can stop right away. With tape over it I wouldn't know until I drilled everything and removed the tape. It would either be good or I'd have to start all over again.

[Pouln]

Poul,

That Testarossa was in a silver with a blue accent strip at the bottom and the interior follows the same color scheme of silver and blue. I'm probably going to wind up painting mine black, I just haven't decided on matte or gloss. Those wheels have to go in order to achieve the look I'm going for. I'm almost tempted to buy a mini lathe just so I can machine some new wheel outers that will fit the tires and then I can put the new centers in and get the custom wheel I want. I keep planning on taking the tires and wheels off of the F40 to see if they will fit on the TR. If they did then I would probably just get a set of those wheels instead.

Maybe later tonight I will just get the new MOP piece cut out and mounted to the plastic card and go from there. I was also thinking about a clear coat over it before I start any drilling just to, hopefully, reduce the chances of it splitting or chipping out from the actions of the drill bit turning and cutting. That's when the MOP chips, when the cutting edges of the bit cuts the edges. That's why starting with a tiny bit and slowly twisting a needle file seemed to work the best for enlarging the holes. Well, time to get on the road. At least its a nice day for a drive , I think I'll take the top off the Supra and get a little sun today.

Yes, not only a blue stripe at the bottom, also the top of the doors and below the front wind screen there's the same. It's more than 40 years since I worked on a lathe and that was quite a big one at tech school. I bought a Unimat 3 in great condition with a lot of accessories for a nice price. Opens up new opportunities.

Wheels: also contemplating what to do with them. Don't know yet.

Sun? oh yeah that is that warmish light giving bulb we get to see every now and then (mostly then).

[larchiefeng]

I found a lot of great looking wheels for RC cars but the scale is wrong. However, the centers can be used and then you machine your own outer rims to match the Ferrari wheel profile. Presto, cool wheels!

[Pouln]

well, is it something you can share? Or is it just one set? Really would like to know if it is of use to me.

[larchiefeng]

As long as we're talking about the TR, let's move it over to the TR thread and I'll post some pictures and explanations a little later today after I get done doing my taxes today.

[larchiefeng]

Two appointments down and blood lab tomorrow. I think I'm going to buy an older used Unimat SL-1000 mini lathe tomorrow. I'm meeting the seller and if I like what I see I'm taking the plunge. Thanks Poul and VT for your advice and help. I will need to do some work on cleaning it up and replacing a couple of missing parts, belts and new cutting heads but, it should serve the purpose. I have a garage full of all sorts of tools and have made a living using them all on cars and buildings but, I've never owned or used a lathe or mill. I decided on this Unimat because it was the least expensive option for a beginner and I can always sell it for what I paid for it. Plus, I figure if Unimat is good enough for Gerald Wingrove then it's plenty good enough for me. It's just like anything, it's only as good as the user; kind of like computers, garbage in garbage out. Speaking of computers, my main super fast PC seems to have lost the boot drive so, I'm back to my older PC and 4GB RAM just doesn't cut it when you're used to 16GB. I built both machines so, fortunately I know the exact problem. When I built the one that crashed I used a 90GB SSD for a boot drive and it's a fast start but, I was always running out of HD space and had to store everything on a second HD. That, as it turns out was a blessing in disguise because all the programs and files are on it and it's fine. So, I ordered a new 240 GB SSD drive and it will fix that memory storage issue and still be a fast boot. So, until then I'm on the iPad and old PC. It looks like I'll be playing a waiting game on the lathe parts and PC parts which, fingers crossed, will allow me to do some work this weekend on the Merc dash and the TR body. I mentioned this on the Testarossa thread but, I'll put it out here as well; if anybody has any information, tips or advice on the mini lathe please feel free to chime in.

One last observation here, during my research on the lathe, I went back to my Wingrove books and videos and realized that I am really just a kit assembler, Gerald Wingrove is a model/minauture maker! The only guy here that, I follow and seems to come close to that level, is Roy. Roy is a maker and I'm glad that he is back on the forum making his one of builds.

[Urshimato]

Hello, this is my first post. My name is Wayne and I am from New Zealand. I have been quietly following the many terrific builds on this site gathering information on techniques and ways to overcome problems as they arrise. Thank you to all.

There is no doubt that Gerald Wingrove is a master craftsman I too have his books, by his own admission there are details he omits, operating steering, wheels that turn for example. If you haven't already please take the time to look at the work of Roger Zimmerman. The detail is staggering for 1/12, working electric windows and the master he made for the tyre are two standout features to me as well as the grill, headlights, tail lights, just all of it. Wouldn't it be nice if he were to publish a book as it would sit nicely next to those of Gerald Wingrove. Judge for yourselves.

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/145354-construction-of-a-continental-mark-ii-model-scale-112/page-1