Graham Boak Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I've just put Andy Bird's Coastal Dawn away, but I'm certain it talks about three-man crews on the Blenheim trade protection fighters. The night fighters wouldn't have the same need for a navigator/bomb-aimer, whereas the wireless op/gunner would remain a vital member of the crew.
PhantomBigStu Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 what does the camoflage demarcation look like IV on the forward fuselage, as its hidden by the engines in all profiles
FZ6 Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I have a couple of Blenheim questions. I want to build my Blenheim I as a night fighter and have the ROP o.s Decal sheet for L6739 of 23 Squadron in 1940. This aircraft is shown in black overall on the decal sheet but L6739 has been restored to flight in a Dark Green Dark Earth / Black scheme. Would this aircraft have been painted overall black at some point? I've stolen the gun pack and parts for the cowl flaps from my Blenheim IV kit. And was wondering if I needed to remove anything else from this kit such as the radar aerials to make a MK.I Night Fighter? Thanks, Mark Edited March 3, 2015 by FZ6
Graham Boak Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 If you don't use the radar, then you don't need the specific cowl flaps because the cowl flaps are only different where the radar mounting fits. So the question is: did L6739 serve with the unit at a time when radar was carried?
espeefan Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Want to do 2 Mk IVs, one a Mk IVf Coastal Command. Besides the Dark Earth and Dark Green, are there any other common schemes? I'd also like to do a bomber with the under the nose turret and either a gimbal mounted MG in the nose or a fixed 20mm. I've got the Warpaint, valiant Wings, Osprey and Squadron titles and there isn't much definitive on these subjects. Thanks in advance for the help.
Dave Fleming Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 what does the camoflage demarcation look like IV on the forward fuselage, as its hidden by the engines in all profiles It depends on the timescale and scheme , but in general it sweeps down from a point at the leading edge of the wing along the lower fuselage then up again from a point just below the windscreen to the junction of the upper nose and lower nose. e.g.: http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/images/online_exhibitions/CH732LG.jpg
Dave Fleming Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Want to do 2 Mk IVs, one a Mk IVf Coastal Command. Besides the Dark Earth and Dark Green, are there any other common schemes? I'd also like to do a bomber with the under the nose turret and either a gimbal mounted MG in the nose or a fixed 20mm. I've got the Warpaint, valiant Wings, Osprey and Squadron titles and there isn't much definitive on these subjects. Thanks in advance for the help. The later sea scheme of Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey/Sky, or the Mediterranean scheme of Dark Earth/Mid stone/Azure blue
KRK4m Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) IIRC the white bands around wings and tailplanes were introduced on SEAC aircraft somewhere in 1944, so - opposite to the Beaufighter and Mosquito - there were no Blenheims carrying them, as the last Blenheim units in CBI theatre replaced them with more modern types in autumn of 1943. There are photos known of Mk.Vs with small SEAC "India white" roundels, but most pictures of Mk.IVs show them with standard (red-centred) insignia. Whereas it's understood for the mid-1942 aircraft from No. 45 and 110 Squadrons, other units (No. 34 and 113 Sqn.) used Mk.IVs to the end of 1942 (thus after the blue-centred roundel was introduced) and No.11 and 60 Sqn. flew this variant deep into 2nd half of 1943. So my question is: do you have any pictures of Blenheim Mk.IV with small blue-centred SEAC roundels? Another question applies to the undersurface colour. December 1941 photos from Singapore show No.34 Sqn. Mk.Is with pale (Sky Blue?) bluish undersurfaces and Night black undersurfaces on No.60 Sqn. machines. Then most Mk.IVs and Mk.Vs wear Sky undersurfaces (e.g. V8083, Z7783, Z9828, AZ942), although there are rumours about Azure Blue undersurfaces of several Mk.IVs in No.45, 60 and 113 Sqn. and Sea Grey Medium on few Mk.Vs. Are there any photos of such aircraft or is this only a wishful thinking of modellers and skin designers? Edited March 4, 2015 by KRK4m
Graham Boak Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Blue centres are later than the end of 1942 - for most of 1943 at least, most aircraft including Blenheims had roundels with the red removed and various thicknesses of the dark blue ring. I have not seen any photos of aircraft with large roundels and blue centres. Given how light the blue appears in some films/filters/exposures, this may not be an ideal guide.
mhaselden Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 December 1941 photos from Singapore show No.34 Sqn. Mk.Is with pale (Sky Blue?) bluish undersurfaces and Night black undersurfaces on No.60 Sqn. machines. Hi KRK4m, Can you point me to any photos of the 34 Sqn MkIs of which you speak? I'd be very interested to see them. Cheers, Mark
DCRanger Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 what does the camoflage demarcation look like IV on the forward fuselage, as its hidden by the engines in all profiles Stu, does this close up of the aircraft you are modelling help? This aircraft was built pre war so the under sides would be all black. This would mean that the black would remain as it was with white added to the underside of the starboard fuselage and wing. In this case as you can see a straight demarcation line was used and they have left the black black triangle above it. On the port side the black would be as per the prewar pattern.
KRK4m Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 According to Rafweb PT codes were assigned in this period both to No.27 and 62 Sqn., while EG to both 27 and 34. Thus I'm not sure about the unit, but here you have bombers with all black undersides (with roundels). http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Blenheim/RAF-62Sqn-PT/pages/Bristol-Blenheim-MkIF-RAF-62Sqn-PTE-L4928-RAF-Tengah-Singapore-01.html And fighters with starboard wing underside in Sky Blue without roundel http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Blenheim/RAF-62Sqn-PT/pages/Bristol-Blenheim-MkIF-RAF-62Sqn-%28or-27Sqn%29-PTN-L6669-based-in-Malaya-1940-42-01.html http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Blenheim/RAF-62Sqn-PT/pages/Bristol-Blenheim-MkIF-RAF-62Sqn-%28or-27Sqn%29-PTN-L6669-based-in-Malaya-1940-42-02.html All photos reportedly taken in Singapore in 1941.
KRK4m Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) A few days ago I met a SEAC Blenheim IV (supposed to be a 34 Sqn. machine from winter 1942/43) http://downloads.flightsimfiles.com/image/2122 http://downloads.flightsimfiles.com/category/39/5 but as its serial T3409 is spurious ("blank" number within the block of Beaufighter Mk IIs) I 'm far from considering it being true. Edited March 4, 2015 by KRK4m
mhaselden Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) According to Rafweb PT codes were assigned in this period both to No.27 and 62 Sqn., while EG to both 27 and 34. Thus I'm not sure about the unit, but here you have bombers with all black undersides (with roundels). http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Blenheim/RAF-62Sqn-PT/pages/Bristol-Blenheim-MkIF-RAF-62Sqn-PTE-L4928-RAF-Tengah-Singapore-01.html And fighters with starboard wing underside in Sky Blue without roundel http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Blenheim/RAF-62Sqn-PT/pages/Bristol-Blenheim-MkIF-RAF-62Sqn-%28or-27Sqn%29-PTN-L6669-based-in-Malaya-1940-42-01.html http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Blenheim/RAF-62Sqn-PT/pages/Bristol-Blenheim-MkIF-RAF-62Sqn-%28or-27Sqn%29-PTN-L6669-based-in-Malaya-1940-42-02.html All photos reportedly taken in Singapore in 1941. Alas, RAFWeb is wrong. The code allocations were as follows: PT - 27 Sqn FX - 62 Sqn EG - 34 Sqn I suspected there was some confusion over unit identities, although the eternal optimist in me was hoping you'd seen pics of 34 Sqn Blenheims that I hadn't previously seen. My hopes have been dashed! To prevent any rehash of discussions previously held on other Blenheim threads, the serial numbers for the LIFE images have all been verified as appearing in the 27 Sqn F540 (Operations Record Book) and none of them appear in that for 62 Sqn. Also, the few photos of FX-coded Blenheims have revealed serial numbers that appear only in the 62 Sqn F540. Cheers, Mark Edited March 4, 2015 by mhaselden 1
Flyboy72nd Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I have another ?? for the Blenheim experten, and by the way thanks for the answer to my first one that put me on the right track to google up some piccies!! This question is in regards to RCAF 406 Sqn and their one month of ops with the Blenheim IF. As above would their birds have oa black or green & earth with a black belly? They used them from May to June '41. Also would they have put up their Sqn codes (HU), a pic would be nice but I have googled the interweb to death trying to find something and get a lot of Beaus!! Learning from reading other peoples posts what is the part number for the cowls to use on the NF IF? Thanks
Graham Boak Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 The cowling parts required are F1 and F12, the ones with the missing semi-circle in the gills. The radar parts required are F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, F8 and F9. For the period, night fighters were overall Special Night, very matt and probably scruffy. As 406 Sq was a dedicated night fighter unit, they are likely to have been equipped with night fighters. However, if they were simply given any old aircraft to keep them busy, then who knows? Adding squadron codes was a matter of squadron pride. They'd normally have put them on straight away. However, if they knew that they were only going to have Blenheims for a brief period and only use them as hacks, then maybe not. A few too many unknowns to be certain.
justplanecrazy Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Does anyone know the individual code for Z9808 of 60 Squadron flown by Warrant Officer Martin Huggard which shot down 64 Sentai legend Major Tateo Kato Nick 1
mhaselden Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Nick, I think that one is lost to history. Your only chance is to track down the personal logbooks of one of the crew members on the off-chance that they recorded the aircraft code letter rather than the serial. In other words...slim odds at best. Sorry I can't be more helpful/positive. Cheers,Mark
Graham Boak Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Returning to 406 Sq, I have the following serials and histories. L6719 Fighter Intercept Unit/406/54 OTU L6725 92/1 OTU/2 OTU/406/12PAFU L6732 219/600/406/54 OTU/51 OTU/60 OTU L6763 406/12 PAFU (some data missing?) They appear to be a fairly random mix, and this data doesn't tell us how long they'd been sitting in MUs between postings. This suggests that they were just a few hacks posted in to keep people busy. That none of them went back to operational units might have more to do with the Beaufighter programme than the state of the airframes, but they weren't new. Supposedly 406 also had Mk.IVs but I couldn't find any - a more thorough search might.
Flyboy72nd Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Thanks, that give me something to go on. Mostly interested in the Mk IF since my 3 MkIVs will become 2 Bolys and a CC MkIV in Canadian markings.
SleeperService Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I'm planning on a Bolingbroke build later this year and would like to make a Canadian Coastal patrol aircraft. I've found general information on the web but am intrigued by the Avialogy book mentioned above. If some kind soul could tell me what it contains about the Bolly I will track a copy down if worth it. TIA
JackG Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 There are two sections devoted to the Bolingbroke. First one deals with the Bolingbroke IV, containing three individual aircraft profile artwork and and five b/w photos over five pages. Other section is on the Bolingbroke IV W, containing two aircraft profile artwork and three b/w photos spread over three pages. regards, Jack 1
Flyboy72nd Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 The Avialogy book is very good but the major area for modellers is the enlarged/extended engine nacelle(s) and they even say in a couple of the pics that that feature cannot be seen because of the wingtip!? So what one needs is a shot from above of the Boly! Now I don't have the book handy so I don't have the specifics in my brain but because the Boly had a revised oil cooling system the nacelles behind the wing were enlarged (hump back) and one version had the port (IIRC) nacelle extended to house the life raft. It is this detail that needs pics or accurate drawings!! One version the Boly even had a twin row radial so the cowling was a bit longer! I am going to be in our national aviation museum this weekend so I will take my camera and see if I can get some pics of these features. 1
RJP Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Just to add some confusion, I recall reading (where? can't remember!) that the Bolingbroke's port nacelle was extended aft further than the starboard. I believe it was the one that housed the raft? Pictures are scarce but I had a look at the CWH rebuild a couple of years ago and it seemed to be the case. I'd be glad to see a definitive answer, to confirm or deny.
SleeperService Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Thank You for the book information. As it seems to be a good source I shall be getting a copy. I'm pretty sure it will be useful for other models as well. I've been collecting information about the single float plane and may avoid the nacelle issues by having a go at that.
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