All the Blenheim questions you want to ask here

[ReccePhreak]

Rather than start a whole new thread, I thought I'd try here. Did anybody ever do canopy masks for the Classic Airframes 1/48 Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV kit?

I don't know if the masks for the CA Blenheim Mk.I would work or not.

Larry

Edited January 11, 2021 by ReccePhreak
spelling

[gingerbob]

Hi Larry,  Boy, it doesn't look too promising.  Some of the Mk.I masks might fit, but definitely not enough!

[ReccePhreak]

4 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Hi Larry,  Boy, it doesn't look too promising.  Some of the Mk.I masks might fit, but definitely not enough!

Hi Gingerbob, That's what I was afraid of. I guess I will have to cut strips of Tamiya tape to fit. I think it will be easier for me to apply the tape pieces to the canopy parts before I glue them to the fuselage.

Larry

[elger]

I have a Blenheim question!

 

I'm working on a Mk IV used on night bombing operations. Would an aircraft like this have been fitted with the single wing machine gun or would that be dispensed with?

 

 

[Graham Boak]

I think that most units (in the general "1941" period) were ready for day and night operations, although it is possible that a few retained some aircraft specifically in the night role.  I have only seen one photo of a Mk.IV with night camouflage, and am interested in your example.   As Night distemper paint was available, there'd be no problem with re-camouflaging.  I would expect the wing gun to be retained.

[elger]

the camouflage we discussed previously, here

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

I would expect the wing machine gun to be retained.  Bomber Command Blenheim sorties despatched on bomb and anti shipping operations to end 1941

Sep-39 Day 36, Night 0
Oct-39 Day 12, Night 0
Nov-39 Day 11, Night 0
Dec-39 Day 47, Night 0
Jan-40 Day 74, Night 0
Feb-40 Day 41, Night 0
Mar-40 Day 160, Night 0
Apr-40 Day 208, Night 6
May-40 Day 825, Night 57
Jun-40 Day 880, Night 0
Jul-40 Day 620, Night 62
Aug-40 Day 595, Night 318
Sep-40 Day 412, Night 786
Oct-40 Day 352, Night 469
Nov-40 Day 148, Night 524
Dec-40 Day 70, Night 323
Jan-41 Day 96, Night 168
Feb-41 Day 124, Night 259
Mar-41 Day 197, Night 259
Apr-41 Day 687, Night 99
May-41 Day 408, Night 101
Jun-41 Day 609, Night 0
Jul-41 Day 481, Night 0
Aug-41 Day 508, Night 0
Sep-41 Day 300, Night 0
Oct-41 Day 204, Night 0
Nov-41 Day 37, Night 0
Dec-41 Day 19, Night 35

[brewerjerry]

Hi

  i had forgotten about that thread thanks for linking 

      cheers

        jerry

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by brewerjerry

[Peter Roberts]

Does anyone have a lead on Blenheim wheel well colours?

 

The undercarriage legs and wheels look like they were often black, but an occasional pale colour appears too!

 

If they were initially built as bombers with black lower surfaces, would this have applied to the wheel wells and bomb bay too?

[elger]

I'm going for green wells and black lower legs on my current build because of these photos of a Blenheim wreck in a desert (I forgot where these are from - apologies to the copyright holder).

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Most Mk.IVs were built after the black undersurfaces had been abandoned in favour of a pale blue-green similar to, if not the same as, Sky.  So there'd be no reason for black wells.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Blenheim IV production Avro March 1940 to October 1941 (750), Bristol January 1939 to March 1940 (300), Rootes September 1939 to November 1941 (2,230), all up 3,280 mark IV, 1,558 built to end September 1940, 1,712 by end October.

 

Mark V production began in August 1941, ending in June 1943.

[Stefaan]

Hi Elger.

Those photos of the wreckes are from one or two of the Blenheim MK IV that got lost after departing from Fuka. They were fom 15 SAAF and there was only 1 alive by the time they were found..

Described in detail in our 15 Sqdn history book, Aegean Pirates.

Stefaan

[Walter Lindekens]

On 31/10/2023 at 00:49, Peter Roberts said:

Does anyone have a lead on Blenheim wheel well colours?

 

The undercarriage legs and wheels look like they were often black, but an occasional pale colour appears too!

 

If they were initially built as bombers with black lower surfaces, would this have applied to the wheel wells and bomb bay too?

 

From the photo's I've studied it would appear that the black finish for the undercarriage legs was only to be found on Mk I's,  the Mk IV's legs being finished in silver paint.     As for the wheel well and bomb bay colour's I'd agree with the others on interior green.  Remember that a Blenheim's bomb doors (held closed by bungee cords) are opened by the falling bombs and snap shut again immediately after.

 

Cheers,

Walter

[Walter Lindekens]

Another Blenheim question!

 

From about April 1941 onwards 2 Group's Blenheim squadrons were heavily involved in anti-shipping ops.  Stuart R. Scott in "Battle Axe Blenheims" mentions how 105 Sqn's aircraft were re-finished in Temperate Sea Scheme colours for this purpose.

And in his "The Bristol Blenheim - A complete history", Graham Warner also describes how most of the 2 Group Blenheims had their camouflage changed from Temperate Land to Temperate Sea Scheme.

 

Besides those anti-shipping ops however those 2 Group Blenheims were still employed on the occasional bombing trip to occupied Europe, and there were the "Circus", "Roadstead" and "Fringe" operations as well.

 

Obviously the Temperate Sea Scheme would be less effective when flying over land so I was wondering if the squadrons involved would have held a number of aircraft in the Temperate Land Scheme for the operations other than anti shipping. 

 

Any thoughts on this matter would be welcomed.

 

Cheers,

 

Walter

[Graham Boak]

There were also supposedly some aircraft retained with black undersides for night operations.  There are only so many aircraft that can be retained in odd schemes without affecting operational readiness.  Night operations could be done with distemper.  Escorted daylight operations means that the actual camouflage would make little difference, and green with grey is a fairly standard/suitable set of colours anyway, even if the grey would appear as a fairly distinct blue in this case.  The only known colour photos of this period show aircraft in the sea scheme, or given the quality of the colour, something approaching that.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

I have not heard of attempts to specialise the different types of attacks at squadron level, only that 2 Group was attacking a variety of targets in Europe during 1941, initially day and night then mostly day.  First list, sorties sent

Jan-41 Day Anti Ship 0, Bomb 96, Night Bomb 168
Feb-41 Day Anti Ship 0, Bomb 124, Night Bomb 259
Mar-41 Day Anti Ship 162, Bomb 33, Night Bomb 254
Apr-41 Day Anti Ship 499, Bomb 188, Night Bomb 99
May-41 Day Anti Ship 299, Bomb 107, Night Bomb 35
Jun-41 Day Anti Ship 221, Bomb 388, Night Bomb 0
Jul-41 Day Anti Ship 251, Bomb 229, Night Bomb 0
Aug-41 Day Anti Ship 223, Bomb 282, Night Bomb 0
Sep-41 Day Anti Ship 135, Bomb 165, Night Bomb 0
Oct-41 Day Anti Ship 108, Bomb 96, Night Bomb 0
Nov-41 Day Anti Ship 8, Bomb 29, Night Bomb 0
Dec-41 Day Anti Ship 6, Bomb 13, Night Bomb 35

Additional sorties to the above, Day: 1 in July and 3 in August Navigation for Fighters, 2 in March and 2 in May reconnaissance, Night: 5 Intruder in March, 66 Anti Shipping in May

 

Second list, sorties credited with attacking
Jan-41 Day Anti Ship 0, Bomb 22, Night Bomb 142
Feb-41 Day Anti Ship 0, Bomb 60, Night Bomb 219
Mar-41 Day Anti Ship 53, Bomb 19, Night Bomb 214
Apr-41 Day Anti Ship 179, Bomb 115, Night Bomb 75
May-41 Day Anti Ship 68, Bomb 72, Night Bomb 30
Jun-41 Day Anti Ship 59, Bomb 206, Night Bomb 0
Jul-41 Day Anti Ship 113, Bomb 150, Night Bomb 0
Aug-41 Day Anti Ship 84, Bomb 200, Night Bomb 0
Sep-41 Day Anti Ship 51, Bomb 115, Night Bomb 0
Oct-41 Day Anti Ship 25, Bomb 68, Night Bomb 0
Nov-41 Day Anti Ship 0, Bomb 24, Night Bomb 0
Dec-41 Day Anti Ship 5, Bomb 13, Night Bomb 32

Additional sorties to the above, Day: 3 in August Navigation for Fighters, 2 in March reconnaissance, Night: 4 Intruder in March, 44 Anti Shipping in May

 

Anti shipping missions could bomb land targets, bomb missions could attack ships, of 681 anti shipping sorties that are credited with attacking 603.5 attacked ships, of the 1,776 bomb sorties credited with attacking 176.33 attacked ships, the fractions are for aircraft that attacked multiple targets.  Bombing Sorties credited with attacking by country 61 Belgium, 0.25 Denmark, 850 France, 593 Germany, 251.75 Netherlands, 47 Norway.  Of the ones attacking Germany 161 did so by day February to August 1941.  There were 363 day bomb sorties sent to targets in Germany, some missions were targets of opportunity depending on cloud cover or the target is not given in the raid report.
18    Borkum
32    Bremen
15    Bremerhaven
3    Dortmund Ems Canal
2    Dusseldorf
13    Emden
1    Emmerich
1    Gelsenkirchen
41    Germany
36    Germany - NW
57    Heligoland
1    Homburg
5    Ibbenburen
12    Kiel
1    Koln
39    Koln - Knapsack
18    Koln - Quadrath
1    Koln Quadrath Fortuna
2    Koln-Fortuna
1    Koln-Wesserling
2    List
24    Norderney
4    Nordhorn
5    Oldenburg
7    Ostermoor
1    Sterkrade Holtern
3    Stockum-Lippe
7    Sylt
2    Sylt-List
9    Valkenburg

 

Anti shipping beats    
A    Off Dutch Coast (Holland and Belgium)
B    Dunkirk to Le Touquet (To Channel Islands)
C    Brittany Coast (Channel Islands to Brest)
D    Dieppe to Normandy
E    East Frisian Islands and North East Holland
F    Southern Danish Coast
G    
1    Off Lorient, Lorient to Belle Isle, later Bergen
2    Stavanger
3    South West Norway
4    Skaggerak
5    West Denmark
6    
7    Westkappell to Hook of Holland (Walcheren Islands)
8    Ameland
9    South Texel to East Schiermonnikoog (Texel)
10    Frisian Islands (Off Mouth Scheldt)
11    Borkum and Wangerooge
12    
13    Caen to St. Valery, Dieppe to Cherbourg
14    Cherbourg Promontory/Peninsula
15    North West point of France
16    Brest to Point de Penmarch (Off Brest)
17    Point de Penmarch to Belle Isle (Off Lorient)

[Paul Lucas]

Message 'Ops.994' dated 27 July 1941 from HQ Bomber Command to  1, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7 Groups stated that

"Owing to nature of operations on which Blenheims of No.2 Group are now engaged all operational Blenheims in this Group will have upper surfaces coloured in Temperate Sea Scheme. Under surfaces will be coloured duck egg blue as at present. Warn all concerned."

 

[Walter Lindekens]

Thank you Graham, Geoffrey and Paul for your valuable input!    The message referrred to by Paul clearly answers my question.    Could one then one also conclude that the few 2 Group Blenheim squadrons that participated in the "1000 Raids" in May and June 1942 were still carrying the Temperate Sea Scheme on their upper surfaces?    Their undersurfaces received a coat of black distemper for those ops. 

 

Cheers,

Walter

[elger]

here's another photo that I saved a long time ago (don't remember the source). I don't think it's colorized.

 

 

Wheel wells of this wreck are interior green, as well as the insides of the flaps. Gear legs look black to me. Don't know the mark though.

 

[tempestfan]

"Squadrons" states 18 was reequipped with the IV in February 1940, so before the shooting started. It also quotes a different Squadron code for the I specified, though that likely refers to an earlier period. Was the large fuel vent a feature of the I? If not, then it's a IV.

[Peter Roberts]

Great photo, thank you. Interior green structure, but looks like black between that structure on the inner frame - fuel tank?

[Walter Lindekens]

On 09/11/2023 at 19:29, elger said:

Wheel wells of this wreck are interior green, as well as the insides of the flaps. Gear legs look black to me. Don't know the mark though.

 

Great photo, isn't it, I've got it in my Blenheim collection as well, found somewhere on the web ages ago.  

 

The fuel dump pipes make it a Mk IV, this had extra tanks in the outer wing sections which the Mk I didn't have (the tanks that is).  For an emergency landing with full fuel load the contents of the outer tanks could be dumped.    Would have to disagree with the gear legs being black though, they just look muddy/dirty to me :). 

 

On 09/11/2023 at 21:49, Peter Roberts said:

Great photo, thank you. Interior green structure, but looks like black between that structure on the inner frame - fuel tank?

 

The black visible through the openings in the nacelle side is indeed the main fuel tank.    It is my understanding that self sealing fuel tanks were a reddish colour, if that's correct then this early Mk IV didn't have them fitted (yet).   Happy to be corrected though.

 

Cheers,

 

Walter