Mig- 17 PF. maybe?

[sean]

I am currently in the process of building Hasegawa's Mig-17 D/E kit. The decals are damaged beyond repair, they actually look water damaged.

Anyway, in an effort not to get caught out like I did with my Sabres, I was wondering about a couple of things,

Firstly, Could this kit be done as a PF of the Syrian AF?

Secondly, if yes, would it be with the green roundels, or the later red, or either?

TIA,

Sean

[KRK4m]

Frankly speaking the Hasegawa Fresco D/E (MiG-17PF/PFU) is the WORST possible 72nd scale kit of MiG-17 worldwide. It's not to scale and the list of shape issues is longer than British Telecom Yellow Pages book of London (including the neighbouring area). The Czech Kovozavody (KP/Kopro and Polish Mastercraft rebox) kit of similar vintage is much better, although the wings are too swept and the scale is something like 1:69-70.

The only decent (though difficult to built) 72nd scale injection kit of the -17PF is the recent AZ kit No. 7339 or 7340 (different markings). Contrary to the short-nosed (i.e. radar-less) -17Fs used by Syria in the 1967 Six Days War, the radar-nosed -17PF was introduced later. Thus it was used in combat only during the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when Syrian roundel was already red-white-black with two green stars on white field.

An example is given here http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww3/f/12/15/0

[Navy Bird]

Frankly speaking the Hasegawa Fresco D/E (MiG-17PF/PFU) is the WORST possible 72nd scale kit of MiG-17 worldwide. It's not to scale and the list of shape issues is longer than British Telecom Yellow Pages book of London (including the neighbouring area). The Czech Kovozavody (KP/Kopro and Polish Mastercraft rebox) kit of similar vintage is much better, although the wings are too swept and the scale is something like 1:69-70.

The only decent (though difficult to built) 72nd scale injection kit of the -17PF is the recent AZ kit No. 7339 or 7340 (different markings). Contrary to the short-nosed (i.e. radar-less) -17Fs used by Syria in the 1967 Six Days War, the radar-nosed -17PF was introduced later. Thus it was used in combat only during the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when Syrian roundel was already red-white-black with two green stars on white field.

An example is given here http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww3/f/12/15/0

Thanks for this, I've always wondered if the AZ MiG-17PF kit was any good. We don't seem to have a lot of choices.

How about the AZ kits of the radar-less MiG-17F (kit numbers 7329, 7330, 7332)? AZ provide new fuselage halves and canopy for the 17PF, so I'm curious if the parts for the 17F are as good.

Cheers,

Bill

[KRK4m]

How about the AZ kits of the radar-less MiG-17F (kit numbers 7329, 7330, 7332)? AZ provide new fuselage halves and canopy for the 17PF, so I'm curious if the parts for the 17F are as good.

Cheers,

Bill

They had to do it this way, as the real birds also differ there. Forward of wing leading edge there's no common part between the "plain" 17 (and 17F, Lim-5, -5M, -5R, -6, -6R, -6bis) and the radar-equipped variants (17PF, 17PFU/PM, Lim-5P, -6M, -6MR). The "radar" nose is deeper, wider and longer, the windshield moved forward (bigger gunsight in front of the pilot) and the 37mm cannon is replaced by the 23mm one to save weight. Even the front u/c doors are different

[sean]

Thanks KR, unfortunately this the one I have, so I shall just have to make do. I suppose that's what happens

when kits are designed from photos. Thanks for the clarification as regards the roundels, there were quite a

few kits online made with the two different types, it's nice to be sure,

Sean

[Tom Cooper]

Firstly, Could this kit be done as a PF of the Syrian AF?

Secondly, if yes, would it be with the green roundels, or the later red, or either?

Hi Sean,

Syria did order a batch of MiG-17PFs, but these were delivered only in early 1958, just a week or so before the country joined the United Arab Republic - together with Egypt and (North) Yemen.

Consequently, the SyAAF was disbanded as a separate air force and integrated into the United Arab Republic Air Force. Within the UARAF, all MiG-17PFs were taken to Egypt, where they entered service with No. 31 Squadron, which for the following three years always had a CO from the 'Eastern Province' (the latter was official designation of Syria as a part of the UAR).

EDIT: indeed, one of COs of No. 31 Squadron was certain Major Hafez al-Assad, former Meteor-pilot who converted to MiGs in Egypt too, back in 1956. Though, except for his usual duty, he's spent much of his tour of duty in Egypt (1960-1961) ploting plans for an anti-Nasser coup...

Anyway, this means that no green-white-black roundels were applied. Instead, these aircraft received the 'classic' UARAF insignia, including red-white-black roundels with two green stars (on top and bottom surfaces of the wing, plus rear fuselage), and corresponding fin flashes. Additionally, they have all got usual identification stripes (two around the rear fuselage and three around wing-tips).

One 'extra' in regards of No. 31 Sqn was that all of its aircraft wore a quite famous, 'CrowBat' unit crest on the front fuselage. This was stencilled in black, and sometimes the 'globe' in the background of the CrowBat was filled with white.

Serials were somewhere in 28xx range.

For photos (sadly: all b&w), artworks/colour profiles and other details, please see Arab MiGs, Volume 1.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Tom Cooper

[sean]

Thanks Tom, much appreciated,

Sean

[exdraken]

One 'extra' in regards of No. 31 Sqn was that all of its aircraft wore a quite famous, 'CrowBat' unit crest on the front fuselage. This was stencilled in black, and sometimes the 'globe' in the background of the CrowBat was filled with white.

Serials were somewhere in 28xx range.

For photos (sadly: all b&w), artworks/colour profiles and other details, please see Arab MiGs, Volume 1.

for decals in 1/72:

DP Caspar, operation Moket, June 1967

http://www.dpcasper.cz/obtisky72013.html

they look quite correct to me!

We need something similar in 1/48 though!!!!!!! /(sorry)

[Tom Cooper]

What I can make out from that scan seems to be based on Arab MiGs Vol.1 - so should be OK (for MiG-17PF; on the contrary, their instruction for UARAF MiG-19S'.... sadly, borders of science fiction; that MiG-15bis with green nose and checkertail too).

[AaCee26]

Frankly speaking the Hasegawa Fresco D/E (MiG-17PF/PFU) is the WORST possible 72nd scale kit of MiG-17 worldwide. It's not to scale and the list of shape issues is longer than British Telecom Yellow Pages book of London (including the neighbouring area). The Czech Kovozavody (KP/Kopro and Polish Mastercraft rebox) kit of similar vintage is much better, although the wings are too swept and the scale is something like 1:69-70.

The only decent (though difficult to built) 72nd scale injection kit of the -17PF is the recent AZ kit No. 7339 or 7340 (different markings). Contrary to the short-nosed (i.e. radar-less) -17Fs used by Syria in the 1967 Six Days War, the radar-nosed -17PF was introduced later. Thus it was used in combat only during the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when Syrian roundel was already red-white-black with two green stars on white field.

An example is given here http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww3/f/12/15/0

Hi KRK,

How about the Dragon one?

Cheers,

AaCee

[Tom Cooper]

Oh... and one more detail regarding 'Syrian MiG-17PFs in October 1973 Arab-Israeli War'....

Yes, there were MiG-17PFs in Syria during that war. BUT, these were no Syrian MiG-17PFs.

As described above, SyAAF never introduced these to service, and thus any kind of references showing 'MiG-17PFs in Syrian insignia' (especially anything with the old national markings used only until 1958) is simply wrong.

The MiG-17PFs were actually Iraqi, i.e. the last few survivors of a batch of MiG-17PFs delivered to Baghdad in 1959-1960, and flown by No. 7 Squadron IrAF when this deployed to Syria during that war.

That unit withdrew all of its aircraft back to Iraq, already on 28 October 1973 (the gov in Baghdad was quite disgusted over Egyptian and Syiran agreement to a cease-fire that ended that war).

[KRK4m]

Hi KRK,

How about the Dragon one?

Cheers,

AaCee

Unfortunately I haven't examined this kit - sorry

[fockewings]

If I may share my two cents The Dragon Mig-17 is only OK for the wings. They are really fine and it seems the Smer Kit which I had used for scratchbuilding a PF in 1/72 are an enlarged copy of those, true to the engravings of panel lines.

I had an Omega Vacu conversion which I had to use the wings off the Dragon Model. Canopy to small inlet to small and other stuff...

The KP fuselage needs to be stretched a bit (if I remember correct 2-3 mm) and the vertical fin/tail needs to be corrected to a sharper angle. The elevators are far to big and need to be trimmed down. Radar/radome/ nose needs to be enlarged a bit. Hope that helps

If I were you I would only go for AZ-Model

Edited March 2, 2015 by fockewings

[KRK4m]

On 2/28/2015 at 2:53 AM, KRK4m said:

Unfortunately I haven't examined this kit - sorry

Unfortunately I managed to examine one (thanks to Messrs Zvezda ) at last and the dream is over... Beautifully engraved surface details, and horribly underscaled dimensions.

Wing span is 125mm (should be 134mm), the fuselage is 6mm too short, vertical fin 2mm too short in height and 3mm too short in root chord.

And most difficult of all to be corrected - the fuselage diameter is 3mm (14%) too small.

Thus this way my idea of fitting the Zvezda (read Dragon) "unreheated (MiG-17A Fresco-A) tail" with oblong airbrakes to one of my AZ MiG-17F Fresco C kits failed. The AZ and Dragon/Zvezda fuselage parts simply cannot be mated together 😪

I will have to scratch-build this sleeker tailpipe myself as AZ refused to add the Fresco A option to their impressive range of MiG-17 kits. And I don't expect Airfix to design the second fuselage for their new kit either.

Cheers

Michael

Edited July 10, 2019 by KRK4m

[72modeler]

John Adams used to have very nice Mig-17 conversion with a vac fuselage, canopy, and metal nose ring, but it was not the PF but the earlier version. I used to have one, but I sold it to another modeler who really wanted to build one; I think it was to be used with the Hasegawa kit wings and detail parts, but maybe @John Aero can tell you more about it. Whatever version Airfix does on their new-took kit is the one  I will build. I'd rather have a good Mig-19 anyway! I do have the Dragon, Hasegawa, AZ, and KP Mig-17 kits, so I guess I could throw all the bits into a big box, shake it vigorously, and see what falls out!

Mike

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:59 PM, 72modeler said:

I'd rather have a good Mig-19 anyway!

Yes it seems the Mig-19 is the ginger headed step child no one really loves. 

1 hour ago, Jordi said:

You could argue that the MiG-17 is the "Hurricane" of the Cold War.  The "Spitfire" (the MiG-21) gets all the glory, but the MiG-17 was there first, got many (if not most) of the kills, and is still under appreciated.  There has never been a really good, accurate kit of the Fresco from any manufacturer in any scale.  

I agree that it gets very little credit next to its younger sibling. 

[AaCee26]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:16 PM, KRK4m said:

Unfortunately I managed to examine one (thanks to Messrs Zvezda ) at last and the dream is over... Beautifully engraved surface details, and horribly underscaled dimensions.

Wing span is 125mm (should be 134mm), the fuselage is 6mm too short, vertical fin 2mm too short in height and 3mm too short in root chord.

And most difficult of all to be corrected - the fuselage diameter is 3mm (14%) too small.

Thus this way my idea of fitting the Zvezda (read Dragon) "unreheated (MiG-17A Fresco-A) tail" with oblong airbrakes to one of my AZ MiG-17F Fresco C kits failed. The AZ and Dragon/Zvezda fuselage parts simply cannot be mated together 😪

I will have to scratch-build this sleeker tailpipe myself as AZ refused to add the Fresco A option to their impressive range of MiG-17 kits. And I don't expect Airfix to design the second fuselage for their new kit either.

Cheers

Michael

Thank you KRK!

 

So no need to bother with this and just wait what the British guyes get out.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee