Selwyn Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) interesting film from 1948. Good practice for dealing with the TU4 Bull perhaps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dMog3T3CAc Selwyn Edited January 30, 2015 by Selwyn 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightningboy2000 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Was this part of training RAF pilots in flying the B29 for their planned overflights of Russia from Sculthorpe, and how to deal with any aerial attack by Mig 15's - maybe? Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Esposito Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Nice film. Thanks. Even at half speed, seems dangerous for Training, especially the head on passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_hopkirk Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Was this part of training RAF pilots in flying the B29 for their planned overflights of Russia from Sculthorpe, and how to deal with any aerial attack by Mig 15's - maybe? Martin Fantastic time capsule of a film - it's a little hard to understand now what it's purpose was as it would served little purpose to the B-29 crews and perhaps a little naive for the fighter pilots. Tend to agree it must be code for tactics against the Tu-4. Did the the B-29 undertake deep intrusion flights over Soviet territory from Sculthorpe? RB-45s and Canberra's yes, but B-29s? Marty... Edited January 30, 2015 by marty_hopkirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightningboy2000 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Fantastic time capsule of a film - it's a little hard to understand now what it's purpose was as it would served little purpose to the B-29 crews and perhaps a little naive for the fighter pilots. Tend to agree it must be code for tactics against the Tu-4. Did the the B-29 undertake deep intrusion flights over Soviet territory from Sculthorpe? RB-45s and Canberra's yes, but B-29s? Marty... No idea about intrusion flights, currently reading about the RB-45 and Canberra missions and (Cold War East Anglia - Jim Wilson OBE) and it only mentions possible bombing missions and the storage of the nuclear bombs at Barnham. Only a thought as I guess there may be information that still hasn't been made public. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_hopkirk Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 No idea about intrusion flights, currently reading about the RB-45 and Canberra missions and (Cold War East Anglia - Jim Wilson OBE) and it only mentions possible bombing missions and the storage of the nuclear bombs at Barnham. Only a thought as I guess there may be information that still hasn't been made public. Martin I venture, there were no over-flys into Soviet territory from Sculthorpe undertaken by B-29s. Marty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Esposito Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I'm sure the training was for the fighter pilots. Soviets were building/copying the B29 and nobody had Intel in how many were deployed. I'm sure Fighter establishment was training for the eventuality of massed formations over the UK. Edited January 31, 2015 by Mike Esposito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinK Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) The training was indeed for the fighter pilots, but the B-29 crews also gained benefit from it, as they were flying profile missions. My Dad flew some of the fighter sorties, flying a Vampire 5 of 613 Sqn. He told me about these exercises many years ago, and how realistic the practise was: with closing speeds of 800 mph passing just overhead the bombers, they were flying as they would in wartime. Tactics were well-thought-out and were indeed based on WWII combat experience. It's worth remebering that many of the fighter & bomber crews had done this sort of thing for real some 3-5 years earlier so it was a chance to pass that on to the new guys. By sheer chance, as I was spending a summer visiting Dad about four or five years ago, I noticed a TV listing for this film on one of the channels (might have been Ch4) and we watched it together and he explained and amplified the explanation of the tactics. Edited January 31, 2015 by KevinK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I agree that it was training for attacking the Tu-4, since it was the Soviet B-29. Although there were many detail differences (going from Imperial to metric measurements, for example), the two aeroplanes had basically the same flight characteristics. One big difference was in armament, however - most Tu-4 Bulls had ten 23-mm cannons, which were several times more powerful than the .50 inch guns used by the B-29. Still, I suspect the Vampires and Meteors would have fared pretty well considering their great speed advantage. Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Esposito Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Very cool,Kevin. At the end of the film it is mentioned that exercises were flown at half speed. Can't imagine how your Dad felt with those "head on" passes. Edited January 31, 2015 by Mike Esposito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_hopkirk Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The training was indeed for the fighter pilots, but the B-29 crews also gained benefit from it, as they were flying profile missions. I was commenting on the usefulness of the film per se,not the exercises which would have had benefit. Indeed, it would have been interesting how he Vampies an Meteors would have fared - if the Tu 4's would have got their box of 'steel' up they would have found it hard going I suspect. Marty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Esposito Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I think the British fighters would have made mincemeat out of the "bulls" 20mm cannons vs Soviet slow firing cannon...slaughter. Edited January 31, 2015 by Mike Esposito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinK Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I tend to agree, Mike. The interception tactics were designed to maximise the gunners' problems in tracking the incoming fighter and yes - the Meteor and Vampire were very well armed. We should also remember that it was a very big air force back then: fighters would have been attacking in Wing strength, dividing the defences. Dad did mention how close the passes were, just clearing the B-29's fin. He also said that, while his squadron's sorties were about 40 min, the SAC aircraft were flying the Atlantic, turning and recovering back to their bases. On a later occasion, the "opposition" was the B-36: he was impressed by the sight of those in formation. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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